What the Hell? (public release like it was no thing)

[raocow]

the last part of 1-2 is honestly the most 'thrown together' part of the hack so any way you use to beat it is good enough for me.

And hey, scrolling the fish is a clever idea I hadn't thought of, you shouldn't be punished for being clever man.

[atruong18]

speaking of 1-2. before the final 3 koopas to the goal has the 3 expanding platforms. the right one usually despawns due to the dolphins or something, which makes that part harder when that happens, but still do-able since you can quickly jump to the top one if you react fast enough.

also how long does uploading usually take? so far, ive been getting these glitches on youtube that basically crashes my internet. that or get the upload aborted.

trying various ways to get around it. the only solution i got so far is to keep doing it again and again and again until it suddenly works like magic.

[raocow]

Man, uploading is really quick for me. In the morning, it's what, on average ten-ish minutes each?

[atruong18]

30min-1hour
thats assuming that it actually uploads that is

man, i need to figure out a way to compress or convert my video to something more youtube friendly. even window movie maker isnt working that great.

[raocow]

Are you uploading in non-track bar mode? I find that helps.

[atruong18]

Are you uploading in non-track bar mode? I find that helps.

with bar: crashes my internet, or fails to upload
without bar: fails to upload
bulk uploading mode: works for some odd reason. but takes as much time as the other two.

both my videos should be up shortly. enjoy my deaths
btw, really like the midway spawn point

[raocow]

Man, if there's something that I'm kicking myself over, is kinda forgetting about those in the later third of the game. I though having to design these tiny rooms for the waypoint place kinda fun in a way.

You know, if I don't get employed soon I might just as well consider doing another short hack.

[atruong18]

gosh, 1-3 really is the point where things get hard.
i havent even gotten pass the 1st map yet.

i found a way to break the level though, but going around that, since having the enemy kill its shell-less self to despawn him is cheap and not intended.

though my alternative isnt the greatest either

music makes up for the trouble im putting myself in the level. also possible to farm lives here

edit:
got to the 'reset door' and looping back over and over again because messing up
avoiding unnecessary death that makes me restart in the beginning
edit2: death. oh well. i have enough for a 1st attempt video instead of a completion. need to free space on computer

[FroggerbobT]

ok, tls4 must be batshit bonkers or something... 1 save state per room?

[Chdata]

That's it. I'm going to post a video of what happens when I TRY to TAS this. (And the process of doing it)
edit: Make that four vids... time flies.
edit 2: Huh, I just found out something that makes my TAS's also crash zsnes.
edit 3: Fixing that still didn't help.

Part One of that thing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6JBWgjzbEA
Two
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h4o3XAz2WQ

[atruong18]

holy dang. how freaken long is 1-3 1st map o_O

i managed to get to the 2nd p-switch in one go (well, very close to it), but theres still more after that?

edit: this is basically a portion of the difficulties im having here.

First Attempt -- Blind, ~2 hours
Second Attempt -- Knowledgeable, able to clear first portion up until the spikeball spinjump more easily, 0/99+ lives left (gained lives from coin collecting)

well, attempt 3 tomorrow probably.

edit2:
so, the portions of the level are:
beginning > spikeball/noteblock
noteblock > resetdoor1 (vine ladder usually not spawn)
resetdoor1 > resertdoor2 (ice wall)
how much more is the 1st map of 1-3? is the icewall the last stretch, or is it only halfway?

[Alexander]

This game scares me.
From what I've seen, you use COPIOUS amounts of Mega-Spikes.
And that is scary.

[metaking]

Hey raocow, my mom want to say you something:

"Mr. raocow, I'm bad at video games and my son always laugh at me when I die. Now I can do the same thing at him when he play your game."

[raocow]

Hahahaha, awesome.

Your mom is a groovy mom metaking.

[atruong18]

music and playing 1-3 really makes me be very speedy (as you see how fast i go through beginning to noteblock. but that's the reason why it made me so stiff now, so healing myself with random music. horray.

well im gonna start the 2nd half of 1-3 map1 later today after healing myself, lol

spoiler of explanations of game mechanic abuse: (koopas)

also the koopa killing itself thing shouldnt be considered as a 'normal method' since this is abusing game sprite functions.
destory a shell-less koopa = despawn koopa
destory a shell = despawn shell
destory a disco koopa = despawn shell and not koopa
i fully comprehended this after witnessing it many times through the level, so i know its workings and how to manipulate it more easily.

since koopa and shell are not related in terms of sprite spawning, by having the disco shell appear, then respawn the koopa, you can have the disco shell destroy the koopa, which despawns the koopa. because the disco shell is considered a shell, once you despawn the disco shell, the shell returns at its spawn location.

yellow koopas:
- hops over spinning shells to avoid getting killed
- enters a motionless shell to become disco shell
- follows the direction where the player is
from this, it is usually planned to have a player move from left to right, so having a shell to the left of the koopa thats moving left towards the incoming player creates disco shell.
however, if you move off the spawnpoint screen of the koopa and return, the koopa will move to the right, away from the shell.
this gives you a change to have another shell on your arsenal

basically, i learned about respawning and how to use it to my advantage

spoiler about the emerald jar message box: (shells)

the message box was really misleading, indeed. in the beginning, i was unsure if i necessarily need specifically THE emerald jar. but progress showed that you can get another green shell later on (i saw it on the edge of my screen and based on that assumption)

even though it is that, i still decided to keep getting the green shell at the beginning for backup purposes even though it takes some time away. shells that i deemed to be safe to get and use:
1. yellow shell that you can use at the beginning to get the vine to spawn
2. green shell at the top left you are expected to get and not the yellow shell
3. green shell you get at the spikeballs by going back to get it without the koopa in the way
4. resetpoint location where you get a free shell and a mushroom
5. yellow shell at the break blocks which you can respawn

the other shells are more risky to get to, however.

in the video, i always get the intended green shell to follow what the game wanted you to do. but since theres no specific shell required, if i lose the green shell by a bullet at the beginning, i grab the yellow shell, if the yellow shell gets destroyed before i get to the tiny gap spinjump, then i grab the respawn green shell.
i drop the shell (1-3) to destroy the disco shell at the tiny gap spinjump, to destroy it. kicking it can miss the disco shell at certain occasions, so i dont recommend. also the gap to spinjump is too small, making it difficult to execute perfectly. destroying the obstacle is a better decision.
you can destroy the disco shell and run back to get another shell, but the shell-less koopa will return, putting you in the same position.
shell 4 is a required to get the pswitch. shell 5 is a backup for shell 4, but involves risk, so using the reset door is a better alternative (as demonstrated variously in the video because of vine not spawning)
finally, shell 5 was the 'intended' shell to be used for the 2nd pswitch, so i attempted to bring it up there. none of my attempts succeeded because of the disco shell, however.

what can you expect, playing this for roughly 8 hours makes you learn too many things

i wonder if no one replies to me because people simply ignore me or because of all the info and paragraphs i usually write. goes for other forums too


finished the 1st map completely now, only took an hour. however, abused the scrolling screen thing for my benefit

[atruong18]

hey raocow, new thing to note:

1-3, 3rd map. there is a portion after the shell, with spikes, and moles, and the flying koopas

since the flying koopas are unkillable now, and the single mole wont really help much, the section is basically luck-based with spinjumping on flying koopas, unless im missing something.

genuinely stuck because this is purely luck-based.

im going to check out bulletbill's video and see if i can get any ideas

edit: so yea, its luck based since you have to position your screen precisely to have the flying koopa spawn perfectly to land on the mole and escape.
eh, just consider about this when/if youre editing your hack.

for now, i will try to do what he did in his video and hope for the best
(still refusing to savestate just yet)

-----
suggestions:
1. if possible, only make koopas killable in world1, perhaps
2. replace the moles at that spike pit with rexes or something of the sort, to be able to bounce when you spinstomp on them and make it more possible
3. make the opening wall higher so you can have enough space/time to get across the pit

[FroggerbobT]

1-3 is the shell-hell right?
if so, it's possible to carry a shell throughout the entire thing.

[atruong18]

1-3 is the shell-hell right?
if so, it's possible to carry a shell throughout the entire thing.

already passed that, thats the 1st map, assuming you meant that one. dont really need to carry a shell through the entire thing though.

the 3rd map you only need a shell for a single part, but afterwards.
Beta Version
version 1.3, the flying koopas are unkillable, so you have to have the mole precisely at the right spot while avoiding everything, or time the flying koopas correctly so you can spinjump across perfectly. basically, its luck-based

[FroggerbobT]

so it took me less savestates to do your entire hack raocow, than it did to do just half a level in mine.

i don't have slippery level+munchers+concrete blocks+really small precision miss-and-die jumps. oh and the pallette isn't awful colors.

anyway i'll post that awful thing in its own thread...

[raocow]

Man, the more I think about it, the more I kinda want to take the lessons I'm learning from making, and now watching people play, WtH and make a better, actually 'good' hack.

[FroggerbobT]

i know how you feel raocow. I end up making these impossibly hard hacks that I can barely do, then decide to make a normal, good hack.

But the normal, good hacks never get much done on them.

[kilon]

The thing is that normal hacks are a lot harder to make for some reason.

[raocow]

Well, it'd probably still be of above average difficulty, but it's still be better. I just.. I see all kinds of flaws in WtH that I wish weren't there. But I'd still be interested in a high difficulty level, just less spikey and more fair in parts.

What's holding me back basically is having to do an overworld. Dang, I don't like the overworld making process.

[atruong18]

eh, 1-3 map3.
ima try my charlie idea a few more times, then im just going to use savestates for that one section. i really want to move on from this level already.

also what is 'average difficulty' exactly, lol.
playing this and other kaizo-ish games made me forget what is considered average and high. though this hack is the first im not abusing savestates

[raocow]

I'm sorry I'm making this hard on you for all the wrong reasons!