Radish Engine (SMBX Engine Remake)

[freelop]

http://www.smwcentral.net/?p=viewthread&t=7596

There seem to be a few there.

[warioeagle]

http://www.smwcentral.net/?p=viewthread&t=7596

There seem to be a few there.

I don't think those have the ones I want to use. I want to use the Cirno Perfect Math Classone and possibly the Nico Nico Douga (sadly, can't find the video) one.

[freelop]

http://www.smwcentral.net/?p=viewthread&t=7596

There seem to be a few there.

I don't think those have the ones I want to use. I want to use the Cirno Perfect Math Classone and possibly the Nico Nico Douga (sadly, can't find the video) one.

You mean this one?

Because it is here

[warioeagle]

You mean this one?

Because it is here

Yes, I do mean that one and thanks for the link. I rather do the Cirno one since it's shorter, but I guess I could just start with a section. It would be kinda funny to see Demo and the ASMT sprites instead of the SMW ones (I've seen that video many times and am used to Mario)

[warioeagle]

Got a few questions for you guys. This is all about the fan game. As I said before, radish engine is postponed until A2MT is out for possible more help.

Should I use the pre-made platforming engine or make my own for the first test? Pre-made one is actually really good. It handles slopes, platforms, and all really well. I only need to tune in the numbers. Making my own will take more time and may not handle everything as well at first, but it'll be easier for me to figure out new blocks. Either way, it's give and take.

Will anyone care if the first test's levels are simply collision testing? Getting all the tiles is a bit of a pain and the first test isn't really to show off looks.

[raocow]

Well yeah, those are tests levels. You have to make them to test, but you block them off or whatever when making a released 'fan game'.

I know you keep saying that the radish engine is 'postponed' but remember that this is meant to be FOR that. Any choice that you make, ask yourself if it would benefit radish or not.

[warioeagle]

Good point. I guess I should make my own engine then. It'll take longer and it may not handle slopes right away, but I'd at least know the numbers to use for the radish engine. Thanks for reminding me of that, raocow. I'll release a demo when I start making some progress.

Planned progress for demo 0.1:
Walking
Jumping
Platforms (jump through, but solid on top)

Maybe:
Running
Slopes
Sliding

Edit: Does Demo have a falling sprite? I know Mario has different sprites for jumping and falling, but I don't have one for Demo.

[warioeagle]

Just a bump to tell you guys that it's going pretty well. Only basic walking and jumping right now, but it's getting there. Slopes may be a problem though. For the fan game, everything will have a square hit box since I really can't change that without making things super complicated. Platforms shouldn't be too difficult as I only need to worry about collision on top, so slightly modified from the solid ground code to make it only stop you when landing on it and nothing else.

Springs and other bouncy things will be a little strange compared to SMW too. All bouncy things will basically just shoot you up. If I had to compare it to something, I'd say more like a custom bouncy block than a springboard or note block.

[raocow]

I'm sure we'll figure something about a proper bouncing thing soon enough. Meanwhile, make it wind or something. Might as well have wind go in all eight direction, and save a proper springboard/tofu block for when it is possible.

[warioeagle]

I'm sure we'll figure something about a proper bouncing thing soon enough. Meanwhile, make it wind or something. Might as well have wind go in all eight direction, and save a proper springboard/tofu block for when it is possible.

raocow suggesting wind? The world must be ending. In all seriousness though, I think I could do that. It's just changing a few variables around. Negative gravity sends you up, positive down. Same type of thing with left/right as well and just combining them both for diagonals.

[warioeagle]

Bumping to list a few enemies I plan to work on, likely in this order.
Bullets - They shoot straight and have no interaction with anything. Only have to stop them when Demo's close.
Homing Bullets - Simply shoot toward the player, stop, shoot at player again.
Exploding Bullets - Like normal bullets, but explode when they hit solid objects.
Thwomps - Fall until they hit ground/platform. Biggest problem would be getting them to rise to their original spot. Second being only falling when Demo is close from either side.
Sideway Thwomps - Thwomps, but sideways. Similar to exploding bullets for collisions.
Upside-down Thwomps - They fly upwards.
Enemies that walk on ground without falling - Getting them to walk is simple. Creating a fake gravity that won't affect Demo or other enemies is harder.
Enemies that do fall - I have to figure out the fake gravity sooner or later.

Power-ups I may be working on soon:
Spin Shroom - Making the spin jump would be easiest.
Hover Shroom - Simply hover and move. Possibly add a time limit.
Fire/Ice Flowers - Mainly just working on the physics. Killing/freezing will come when more enemies are added.
Mini Shroom changes nothing other than Demo's look and hit box, therefor needs no actual work.

Yoshi may or may not be included, depending on how complicated it is to add him and the various powers, the extra jump, etc. I'm thinking about having Thwomps you can ride as well. If anyone has played Wario Land 1, you've seen the idea. For those who haven't, the Thwomps are safe from the top only and are basically moving platforms that will hurt you if touched on any side that isn't the top. I'm also thinking that Thwomps should hurt the enemies. Again, idea from WL1, but they are huge rocks smashing the ground. If Koopas and Goombas are squashed by a fat plumber (or Demo), then they should be squashed by something that squashed a fat plumber/Demo.

If you guys have ideas/opinions, let me know. As said before, all this work on the fan game gives me a bit of help in the Radish Engine. The more I figure out now, the more will be included in early releases of the Radish.

[raocow]

Re: generators (like what be shooting bullet bills) - make sure we can't completely nullify them by being close. Like yeah, stop them from firing if you are on the tile litteraly next to the generator, but not if you are also above/bellow. If that makes sense?

[AUS]

Make a generator that's not random, so it isn't unfair like an eerie generator (depends on the level)
Basically, have it spawn enemies based off of some static unchanging "random" formula or something, so it would act like a generator but have the same thing happen everytime you play, if that makes sense?

Just an idea.

[raocow]

Wouldn't it be simpler to just.. place those elements in the level yourself, then?

[yoshicookiezeus]

Make a generator that's not random, so it isn't unfair like an eerie generator (depends on the level)
Basically, have it spawn enemies based off of some static unchanging "random" formula or something, so it would act like a generator but have the same thing happen everytime you play, if that makes sense?

Anyone who tried to play Rupture in Reality from SMWCP savestateless knows that the "random" generators in SMW actually work this way. SMW's random number generator is not even close to being truly random; it has a very specific formula that will always return the same sequence of numbers as long as it is called the same number of times.

[warioeagle]

To be honest, there's no way to actually code a truly random generator. There's tricks to make it seems random, like basing it on time or something, but never truly random.

As for the shooters, I'll try to make them stop if something's in the way, but I can't promise anything. The easiest way would be adding detectors, but that could cause lag if there's a lot of shooters and wouldn't transfer well into the Radish. I'll have to find a way to code it so that it checks to see if something is in the way.

[AUS]

Wouldn't it be simpler to just.. place those elements in the level yourself, then?

No, because that would just be bullets in the level, not generated.

Anyone who tried to play Rupture in Reality from SMWCP savestateless knows that the "random" generators in SMW actually work this way. SMW's random number generator is not even close to being truly random; it has a very specific formula that will always return the same sequence of numbers as long as it is called the same number of times.

To be honest, there's no way to actually code a truly random generator. There's tricks to make it seems random, like basing it on time or something, but never truly random.

Neither of these are what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a generator that will - point for point - generate bullets at the same y position on the screen to the next same y position of the screen every time you play the level. So it can be learned, and isn't actually random.

You would have to use a static (completely unchanging based on player's actions) formula or something so that they don't spawn in the same position everytime (that would just be like a cannon) but still every time you play the level do the same sequence of firing.

Am I explaining this very well? Well, it's just a suggestion of a feature, you don't have to do anything with it. But it would make generators less unfair.

[warioeagle]

To be honest, I probably won't make any generators. Once I finish the Radish and get it out, then people are free to add in whatever they want, but the only generators I plan to add are just shooters/cannons.

[raocow]

I just don't understand the point of something so specific, AUS. The reason WHY peeps use global generators is because it's easy difficulty, since it auto-adapts to the player. Nobody would use one which is static, since after a bit everyone would know what to do 100% of the time.

[AUS]

It would be for autoscrolling levels/segments, like the kind that get butchered by a regular random generator by making the level impossible. With a static one, you would just make your level around it, I suppose.

[raocow]

And in that case you're honestly better off just placing your 'elements' yourself. That's what I'm saying.

[kilon]

How about having some generic generators in some sort of library you can just add without any hassle.
And when you think your level requires some more advanced generators, you can create your own generator. And when finished possibly add it to the library for future uses.

[Neurario]

If you want bullet generators, why not make a way to turn them off and on with the equivalent of a command sprite?

[AUS]

And in that case you're honestly better off just placing your 'elements' yourself. That's what I'm saying.

I see what you mean, but then bullets would only be coming from one direction.

[warioeagle]

Just figured I'd give a bump for anyone still following this thread. I have enough stuff figured out in my practice thing to get the physics engine started in Radish, but still waiting until after A2MT to try getting more help.

After watching the MGU2 video today and reading some comments, I do plan to make objects interact with platforms just like Demo does, much like in SMBX.I think it'll be easier to just have everything interact with it than to program a way not to since all objects will be using basically the same physics.