A Super Mario Thing - Plot and cutscenes

[Chdata]

Maybe you could give that heavy press alternate fight patterns. Like every two hits it does somthing new, or maybe when you get rid of all the cement blocks it continues it's fight pattern but adds in something else to make it get harder. Maybe make it start smashing down like a thwomp if you get very close to being under its side, and you can only hit it while it's moving back upwards.

[Daze]

As far as the Heavy Press boss goes, a couple of Podoboos or Li'l Sparkies would probably make things more interesting, if they could be implemented. Any reference to squishing can be reserved for right before the Heavy Press boss (assuming we use multiple stages to Charles, and assuming Heavy Press isn't the first form), if we're able to use auto-messages. I'm tempted to rewrite the pre-fight dialogue using this as a base, but I'll do that later on (rewrite the opening, too).

[kilon]

I'm tempted to rewrite the pre-fight dialogue using this as a base, but I'll do that later on (rewrite the opening, too).

Feel free. Maybe we can mix things up for an optimal scene.

[kilon]

Double posting!!

So what type of guy is KC going to be? Gangster, hippie, royal, really evil, geekish, shy, normal,...?

And Daze did you try editing the 2 cutscenes or did you just forgot or had no time?

It's just that I think we should start getting to the point with the cutscenes now we still have the time. It would be a waste of time to do it when all levels are submitted. then there is just music to be added and the testing

[flameofdoubt]

I think it could go either way with certain things added in. KC is undoubtedly doing something very wrong with the whole "starve the populace" policy, so he could be evil with/without reason, or nice but dumb, unaware of the orders some grand vizier has been giving out. If you wanted to make the plot even more complex maybe make it so KC has heard about all the killing and pillaging you've done, and fights you to the death, but is actually a puppet, unaware of the havoc his reign was causing. Then either the super secret boss fight is the vizier, or he's a really weak enemy who is revealed and done away with in a cutscene, making the player question his own morals for having killed the innocent and naive king!...or just make him evil, though i'd rather he was evil with a reason rather than unconditionally and cartoonily evil.

[Daze]

Double posting!!

So what type of guy is KC going to be? Gangster, hippie, royal, really evil, geekish, shy, normal,...?

And Daze did you try editing the 2 cutscenes or did you just forgot or had no time?

It's just that I think we should start getting to the point with the cutscenes now we still have the time. It would be a waste of time to do it when all levels are submitted. then there is just music to be added and the testing

I haven't tried doing that yet, Kilon. My college classes started up, and I'm still kind of adjusting, so I vouch for lack of time (even though I've been around... yeah, I know). Also that we let this thread kinda slow, but that's just making excuses now. I'll do it on Friday, or this weekend.

Anyways, I'm seeing King Charles as something of a "normal" tyrant-type figure. Arrogant (perhaps a megalomaniac?), with a disregard for those he sees as beneath him (read: everyone). His can keep his cool among his troops, but I imagine him coming quick to anger when Demo confronts him. It helps that I imagine Demo being kinda snarky, based on some of the dialogue you and YCZ came up with.

However, I think he can have something resembling a code of honor/brotherhood, even if only with the Charlies. I imagine coming out of the pre-battle cutscene in the Heavy Press with an auto-message saying "In the name of my fallen brothers-in-arms, I will end this!" Sorta like what a boss fight might do when you enter the battle itself in other kinds of games. (I think I also suggested something like that for Master Snailington, too, but he won't have a cutscene before that.)

Still, we shouldn't make things over-complicated. That's my problem with Flame's plan of a "grand vizier" behind the scenes. Charles' cutscene dialogue should focus on how his reaction to Demo's arrival (somewhat impressed at first?) and what he's doing with the technology Demo lost. He gets angry, maybe (hopefully) the avenge-Charlies thing, then the fight. When I rewrite the dialogue, we'll see how it flows, if it's too long, etc, then make changes. Did we ever decide if Charles was gonna have two stages of battle? It will affect how we apportion dialogue and such.

[kilon]

I know how it goes. I don't really have any free time either.

I agree with KC being your 'typical emperor'. But he should have some dry humor just like Bowser has in some Mario games.

And I pretty much asked it so the sprites of KC can be like his personality.
And when we have the sprites drawn, I think we can start working on a second phase in the battle (or first phase as Heavy Press feels more like the last phase to me)

For the other cutscenes and the message boxes, I don't really have any inspiration as of late but we should confirm where we put those.

This is what I mentioned before for the cutscenes:

-opening cutscene (done. maybe minor tweaks)
-before KC (he introduces himself, tells about plans. Typical James Bond style so to speak)
-after KC (after all, there must be some way to tell the player that the Void World has appeared. Doesn't need to be a long cutscene. 2 or 3 screens tops can do the trick)
-after beating BP (the happy ending and the credits. After the credits the possible "oh my god, will there be a sequel" thing)

Is this enough? More/Less cutscenes? Why?

[flameofdoubt]

I think if BP really is the last thing you do in the game, the joke needs to be done more carefully. raocow has said that the reason he found it so funny was the build up, so maybe refer to BP earlier or even have a couple of tiny mini-cutscenes to hint at "something". I'm just a little worried that seeing him won't be as funny the second time around, as the context is different.

[kilon]

That's true.
But it seemed kinda obvious since we had the possibility to use it.
But given the stage that everything is in, another final final boss wouldn't mind I guess. But it does need to be epic and maybe recognizable.

[Daze]

That seems like all the ones we need, Kilon. The only one that might be missing is if we decide to make a small cutscene at the Yoshi's House, but that would just be the Yoshis enlisting Demo's help. Background about them can come from auto-messages later.

I was figuring we would have auto-messages at various points in the Void Space that would hint at some dangerous presence that wishes to prevent Demo from returning home (and that has more sinister plans). I guess I should watch raocow's LP of the game Black Plague was in, so that I can see just what kind of build-up there was.

[Daze]

Aw man, double-posting. Yeah. Anyways, I texted this to myself yesterday so that I wouldn't forget the idea.

Basically, it's not a big thing, but I think the Yoshi's House level should introduce an Otacon-type Yoshi (Yoshicon? Yasucon? Con, for short.) that can contact Demo when she's out in the field and pass on intel. His speech would be denoted with asterisks, as if talking over a codec. I had a thought for the first level starting with an auto-message like "Bzzt. *Hey, Con here. Some of the blocks contain food, hidden from the Charlies. Use as needed.*"

We could also use him to explain story elements or background outside of cutscenes, or give the hints that would be included in level messages anyways. In the first level of each world, he could also identify what kind of place Demo is in (she IS teleporting through pipes...), and give her a warning about the area in general. In levels with particularly difficult parts (or really hidden secret exits), he could drop a hint at the start of the level as to how to do it, or where it is.

His "presence" could cut down how much we have to put in cutscenes (especially as far as introducing the Resistance's causes), and I think it would be a nice little touch to have an Otacon-type character. It would give a face to the Resistance, and involve the player a little more. We don't necessarily have to include him as much as I just explained. I wasn't planning on Con having his own backstory, preferring more to keep him as Demo's contact to the Resistance. His involvement might be cut in the Volcano Stronghold, but I think contact with him should end when Demo enters the Void Space (wherein the mysterious voice that turns out to be Black Plague takes over, in a sense). It's not meant to complicate the story. Rather, Con is meant to be a way to get the story to the player easily.

So yeah. That's an idea I had. Does it sound feasible/workable/good, at all? Comments and suggestions, please. I wanna know if I'm getting this idea is in over my head.

[flameofdoubt]

I think that's a pretty nifty idea. We'd have to mock up a fake yoshi for the yoshi house because yoshi graphics are always global, but it should be an easy and useful addition to the plot.

[Kristian]

I vote yes on the idea for a yoshi otacon.

That would be a easy way to help people out, and due to the nature of some of the levels, would be very useful.

[yoshicookiezeus]

We'd have to mock up a fake yoshi for the yoshi house

NPC, anyone? I could hide him in a completely obvious hidden area in the Yoshi house (perhaps a hidden pipe in the middle, with a message block over it saying "DO NOT DUCK HERE"?), to keep him from being discovered by the Charlies. (They were established not to be very bright earlier, right?)

[Crimson]

The way I see BP is that he's just hiding, thinking he's safe, in the middle of nothing, and this thing just appears in his spot. Unfortunately for him, this thing acts just like the guy that previously completely kicked his ass. Out of confusion, fury and paranoia, he attacks it.

But then I haven't really been keeping up with the void world stuff.

[Kristian]

In the 'DO NOT DUCK HERE' thing you should disable the side screen exit, so the player is forced to go down in the pipe, in case raocow is all like, "Well ok Mr. Sign, I won't duck here then." and just exits via side screen exit.

But then enable the side screen thing down below, so the player can still get out of the level that way.

Also - I agree with the "We should have a bunch of polls to deiced on things" discussion at the top of the page.

[Daze]

I'm glad you guys so far like the idea. :) Way I imagined it, there'd be some Resistance leader at the Yoshi's House who gives you a very general overview and introduces Con, but then we'd never see him again. We could put them both in the underground base that YCZ mentioned (like that idea, by the way, and Kristian's add-on to it) as NPC's. I'm sure you guys can make them unrideable or actually part of the landscape or something. Maybe going down the pipe would trigger the short cutscene?

I'm thinking of the Resistance captain as a blue Yoshi (since they're arguably the "best" Yoshi). Con, I originally imagined him as a normal green Yoshi, but maybe we should make him yellow, to make him more unique (and since raocow likes yellow Yoshi the best). Unless levels call for it otherwise, I think every rideable Yoshi (aside from Chdata's black one) should be red or green. They probably all are anyways, but it would be cool for Con to be the only yellow Yoshi. Maybe he could come in after Demo defeats Charles to explain the Void Space as best he can before Demo leaves, and to say goodbye/good luck.

As for Black Plague, maybe he'll be somewhat amused by Demo when she first enters the Void Space, and decides to "play" with her by telling her that he can guards the way back to her homeworld. After a couple levels, he'll start to recognize her style, and be all "You... You're quite adept. You're like him. That man..." At least, that's something that comes to mind.

[Kristian]

Maybe going down the pipe would trigger the short cutscene?

Yeah, good idea.

[Chibikko]

Here are my thoughts on the stuff thus far.

Name: After the rein of the Dinosaurs lead by Bowser was ended, the area was renamed Mario Zone (or something similar) so the title references the place and not the character.

Food: Vegetables are so common in the hack (power-ups) that the Master should state that he does not like them. The commoners of Dinosaur Land would be fine with eating the stuff but KC (and the Master) like better quality food so KC keeps all of that for himself. This is not a major thing in the plot. Alternately, level asm could be used to increment a free RAM address (like $7F8183) every time a power-up is collected. This would keep track of how much food is collected. Another alternate would be that she has to eat or she would not return with any of the food (i.e. starve to death).

Yoshi: Yoshi reminds me of Yukari (from touhou): all they do is eat and exist. A skillful player could have the same Yoshi throughout the entire game (not this hack, but most others). Places where Yoshi cannot go (like castles) have that same Yoshi waiting outside for when the level is over. Also, Yoshi in game just sit there until the player gets on and tells it what to do. I think there should be no Resistance: some Yoshi don't like taking any orders while others think they can take it easy being a minion (most enemy sprites don't stay on screen for more than a few seconds).

Teleporter: I think that KC found it, messed with it, "broke" it, and then forgot about it. Since he took it, Demo has to get to his castle to get it back (and to get the good food for the Master). She gets it to work without realizing how much KC messed with it and the special world (void) is created. The teleporter says that the destination is correct and everything is mostly working so she goes in.

Final Final Boss: If the teleporter idea needs to be connected to him, then it simply is that he could not get it to fully work and left it with KC knowing the owner would get this far and fix it (or input a password, etc.) for him. Also, if you are really concerned with raocow not wanting his level modified then just have another level on the overworld that is the true final level which is only revealed after raocow's level is beaten (so it only looked like his level would be the last level).

Credits: They belong at the end of the story. Demo is still not home after beating KC so the credits don't belong there. If the story revolved around beating KC then that would be different.

[flameofdoubt]

I very much like dazedouji's ideas about slowly introducing black plague by having him connect demo with mario, and yes yoshicon should be yellow. It's an easy in-"joke" and doesn't detract from anyone's enjoyment of the game who doesn't know.

As far as some of the stuff Chibikko said goes, we already made it so that you can't carry yoshi's between levels, or have one in the overworld. That's always changeable i suppose, but so many people are wanting mario to start alone and friendless in their levels so that they work (people like me xP) so i'm not sure that's something we can do. I agree Yoshi always seems pretty dumb, but with some charachterisation the resistance thing could work, and the stupidity can turn to a sense of duty and/or being too scared to move without a rider (unless hit by an attack in which case they flee).

Er...one thing i just thought about the plot everyone...theres no twists. Our plot is a completely linear "save the girl, beat the boss-well done you saved the girl and beat the boss" affair. The closest we come to a surprise or twist is BP. Trying to put in a plot that CAN twist might be too much especially with such random levels, but i think we oughtta at least try. Mainly i thought of this when Dazedouji brought up the one-time-appearing yoshi commander, and i thought "why only once?" and then that made me think what if he's actually on the side of the charlie's, feeding them information, and KC is allowing the yoshi's to think they have a resistance so they'll farm more food for him to then steal. That's just one idea but i think we should definitely have something twisty happen in the plot, some unexpected but perhaps foreshadowed revelation.

[kilon]

Yoshi HQ: we only use the Yoshi House in the beginning where the HQ is, right? So maybe we can change that so it looks more camouflaged. I mean, the Charlies are stupid, but when they see a house, they inspect it. If it has (obvious and/or over the top) camouflage it is something else.

Con: that is a good way to explain the random messageboxes popping up. But will there still be room for Demo's thoughts? The sarcastic way she looks at things can be funny. Maybe mixing things up as though they speak with each other but they can't hear each other. Although a message box is probably to small for that.

Yoshi leader: Of course there is a leader. Our first thoughts were that he was the yoshi you play the game with, but I'm glad we don't go with that anymore. If we see him only once, and thus as a NPC we can make his sprite quite interesting and very different from the other yoshis as he's the boss.
But I also like the idea of a twist where he works for KC. But then we need to explain all that. Not that that needs to take very long but still it could get irritating.

BP: He 'exists' all the time. The question is: does he know what's going on in the world? If so it could be that he's interested in Demo and see what she got.
If he doesn't know, he may be pissed of because someone disturbed him in his rest. But I think he should at least know about the teleportation thingy as that is the only thing Demo needs to get home and id she has it in the beginning of the Void World she can just go.

Chibikko's thoughts:
-the title A Super Mario Thing was more like that Demo is doing a thing what Mario normally does; Demo does a Super Mario Thing.
-Your saying that there are normal vegetables like the power ups and premium quality vegetables to collect for the master from KC? It could work but it is kind of a coincidence that the one who steals your only way home also has what you where looking for in the first place. I do like a counter to see how much food you have collected but we should see how that works out
-Yoshis are dumb. Be it as a minion or in La Resistance. So when they figure out that they can't be hurt by just standing there, they stand there. And when they do get hurt, they run away.

Twists: We got these twists: 1. BP and possibly 2. Demo's Master turning out to be evil -> Boss of ASMT 2.
But another twist could be nice. I'm just not sure at what point it should happen.

[yoshicookiezeus]

Not sure if this should go here, but I have come up with an idea for a three-phase King Charles fight:

1) KC attacks Demo in the Heavy Thwomp. Demo defeats it, and it falls, crashing through the floor. Demo follows.
2) Demo falls into a dark, empty room, littered with the wreckage of the Heavy Thwomp. KC is nowhere to be seen at first, but soon appears in some kind of small round flying saucer machine thing, flying around the room and shooting stuff at Demo. After she defeats it , it falls to the ground.
3) The saucer thing explodes, and KC himself emerges. He acts mostly like a normal Charlie, except that you can't stomp him because of his crown. I haven't really come up with any particular attacks for this phase...

While this will obviously take some while to code, I believe that it should be within my capabilities.

[Personalness]

For the third phase, maybe something like this could work?

When the saucer crashes, it creates an explosion, shrinking demo (if she's big) and removing her stored powerup. Then demo opens up a gate?( I have no idea, just somehow turn the room into a long hallway.) This hallway is the exit of the building, and KC doesn't want demo to escape so he chases her down the hallway. The hall could be full of a bunch of different obstacles, making it actually difficult, but there would be two rows of turn blocks on the ground for KC to simply carve through. Also have that auto-scroll sprite that keeps getting faster. Somehow (layer 2 sprite block shenanigans?) keep kc on screen the whole time, maybe he could act like a combination of the shark chomps and a regular charlie? Either way, there's a gimmick where there will be a timer (like metroid games) and every minute (more or less depending on what works) a powerup will drop, and eventually (3 minutes?) there will be a cape, allowing you to kill KC (in 1 hit. i dont know, it seems funnier that way.) then have the destroy all sprites to win thing on or something.

Thats my basic idea, it needs improvement, a LOT of improvement, and Im not entirely sure if this is possible. Opinions?

[flameofdoubt]

I really like the chase scene idea. Not sure about the timer so much though, it seems to me you're either fighting or escaping, and avoiding him untill the level for some reason gives you a way to beat him seems like it doesn't quite work. Maybe yoshicon is making you the popcorn and it takes 3 minutes or something.

I do really like the 3 phases(/and then) chase sequence, but it might be a lot to ask of the player. Will there be a savepoint say after phase 2?

[Argumentable]

Would it be possible, for his last phase, to get him to cycle randomly through all of the chuck sets? And then maybe build on that to make them slightly harder, like I guess when he does the jumping jacks he could summon something (maybe other chucks), and instead of digging up a rock he could dig up something maybe like a homing bill only you have to jump on it and throw it back at him?