VIP6 - VIP

[Leet]

All that was talked about here is not being as impressed with this one as when the other ones were new, basically from changing design philosophies and technologies. Like, it's still obviously not a bad game. Just feel like the energy of the game is a bit off is all

I'm not really sure what the difference is, I still think Vip 1-5 are very special. Not really to do with being impressed or not (I don't think they were ever that "impressive", since it was mostly only people in the talkhaus who liked them so much in the first place), and I didn't watch/play them when they were new whatsoever.

More likely the difference is probably attributable to just how jp hacking was on the decline in general and thus why this game never got finished.

[Piesonscreations]

I'm not really sure what the difference is, I still think Vip 1-5 are very special.

Well, the difference is that we never spoke to any of the qualities that made the VIPs enjoyable, just mentioned the very vague "energy", which I don't think we disagree with. This also does not mean we ever said that VIPs 1 through 5 weren't special, because if anything, we said that they did have that energy- for whatever reason that may be. Hell, even VIP 6 is special in it's own way.

You're probably right that it didn't have anything to do with them being new or particularly impressive technologically (aside some custom bosses and other misc. stuff)- It might have to do something with something raocow mentioned in today's video about the level being more mean than playful, which could be a throughline for the whole hack. Like, it's obviously not a troll hack or intended to straight up make you suffer. Just seems ever so very slightly out of balance in that sense from what i've watched.
And that's something to take into account, like, i'm not speaking in my opinion as a player because I've never played these games. I don't have the kind of expertise with SMW or patience to ever be able to enjoy 70% of hacks out there- I'm only speaking as a viewer.

But uh, yeah. It doesn't really matter, but I do think there's quite a difference with what has been said and "vips were just not good"

[FPzero]

VIPs have a very unique sense of play and design to them in my opinion, and it's fun seeing that put up against modern kaizo and very setup-focused western levels. But I suppose it also feels like VIP design hasn't really...evolved? as much as western design has in the last decade. Like, I can absolutely see a difference between older western levels and modern ones, but with VIPs I feel like you could take the levels from any of the 6, jumble them together, put them in a hack and it'd still feel like a coherent game with few conflicting design philosophies.

They're absolutely still fun to watch though, like in a good comfort food kind of way. And I continue to be in absolute love with the overworld in this hack.

[gbreeze]

There's a few things that made the vips special when they came out. The first is the clever design and use of unusual tricks and gimmicks. The second would be that every level felt unique (thanks cozyduck for pointing this out to me). At the time of their release, a lot of hacks had levels that were fairly homogeneous. The levels were still good, but they sort of just flowed together (think a SIG hack, or like grassy fields 1, 2, etc). By nature of being a collab, the vips introduced this idea that every level brought something unique or silly to the table.

Now, as fpzero mentioned, western hacking has evolved so that this is by far the norm. Whether from the explosion in kaizo's popularity, from jump, from contests on smwc/talkhaus, or even modern gaming changing the attitude on hacking, things have changed a lot. The standard expectation is now that every level be unique in some way, and it's fairly common to see levels with interesting quirks and amusing gimmicks. The vips aren't unique anymore in that regard.

Then, the biggest selling point for vip6 is the distinctly japanese style of design, which as fpzero mentioned, makes it quite unique compared to most modern hacks (though keep in mind that most of these levels are fairly old anyway).

The levels are definitely harder than the past couple vips. And I recall someone mentioning that a lot of big names from previous vips didn't participate this time. So those are certainly factors, though I've still enjoyed this hack and I think it has a lot of charm.

[Awakenyourmind]

I still enjoy this LP though and are always looking out for new videos. Regardless of how it compares to other vips there will always be people like me and anonbl00dlust who enjoy watching raocow play some ridiculous levels.

[Implo]

You will not like this comment, raocow, but I think powerup at the very beginning of level is a trap. I mean what killed you a lot was slowly descending on block thanks to feather. That's why you had less time to make jumps. And hitting switches would definitely be easier as small Mario. So I think this section has been made with small Mario in mind.

Also I wonder if P-block in 2nd half was also portable?

[Ashan]

I'm thinking with that "precise" fall between the spikes, the idea was to place the block directly above you, align yourself, and then hit the switch so you can fall straight down

[Alice]

Also I wonder if P-block in 2nd half was also portable?

This was my thought. If it wasn't then there was no reason to give it the same graphics as the portable on-off block. Though the level author definitely underutilized it and kinda failed to make it so you absolutely had to learn it was portable in order to get that dragon coin if that's the case. You should always build your level to be a raocow-proof as possible, otherwise you get situations like this one.

[The Doctor]

You will not like this comment, raocow, but I think powerup at the very beginning of level is a trap. I mean what killed you a lot was slowly descending on block thanks to feather. That's why you had less time to make jumps. And hitting switches would definitely be easier as small Mario. So I think this section has been made with small Mario in mind.

Eh, it depends on how you use the cape. I memorized a route with the cape to minimize my jumps that worked out pretty well.

[AUS]

The switches moving off and on might trick you into thinking this is at all rhythm based and that you can "learn the timing" but this is an illusion. It is 100% seeing the layout and reacting to the movement of the shell.

I prefer Celeste's B-sides.

[Jolpengammler]

To be honest, despite its unfair nature of "look at the top and the bottom at the same time" i really love these switcheroo shenanigans. It just pleases me greatly.

[Kilgamayan]

I wonder if the intended to solution to the part near the end of the first half where you basically hugged the right wall to hit the switch as soon as it came on the screen was actually to hang back near the first such switch you could hit.

[Implo]

So second half of last level is boring, because it's pure memorization. How can you say that, raocow? Your first attempts on these section and also boss proves that this concept is wrong. It's not a memorization section. It's the section where you need to observe your surroundings and quickly make decision how to move, so you could dodge obstacle by reflex. I can imagine that trying to remember all hard obstacle could make you rush easier section like this boo laser. You never had problem with dodging it until you decided to completely ignore it and swim into it.

So I think that trying to memorize this section and boss is something that killed you a lot. If you would treat every obstacle as a new obstacle and dodge it purely by reflex, then I think this section would go smoother for you.

[raocow]

I mean
I still felt bored.

[Ashan]

You were much more trusting of that "you may now swim again" sign than I would have been

I was almost certain it was still gonna be fakeout water

[Reecer7]

the image of boon platforming across an epic naval battle in a moment of total tumult to the tune of the vanilla athletic theme is hilarious

[Kilgamayan]

From the preview and video title I was hoping one of the video names was going to be Three Kingdoms Romathletic

[Grounder]

[norwegianguy]

It is getting closer... Soon raocow will learn if he can fly.

[raocow]

what a foreboding thing to say

[Kilgamayan]

I wonder if it would have been less nerve-wracking to get the key first.

[Ashan]

I think you actually kinda were on a timer for that last green shell to hit big boo since eventually the turtle would pop out and then one of the guys up there would crawl in and become a full koopa which wouldn't hurt the boss

[raocow]

hey so, because vip6 is heading towards nightmare mode, I'm thinking of putting it on hold, put vldcx back into a-side, finish that, and then return to vip6 so I can give it all the time it needs. thoughts?

[raocow]

I think you actually kinda were on a timer for that last green shell to hit big boo since eventually the turtle would pop out and then one of the guys up there would crawl in and become a full koopa which wouldn't hurt the boss

I hadn't even thought of that

[freshtalk]

hey so, because vip6 is heading towards nightmare mode, I'm thinking of putting it on hold, put vldcx back into a-side, finish that, and then return to vip6 so I can give it all the time it needs. thoughts?

Whether you put it on break or do it in tiny pieces in present time, I feel like it'll all round out to finishing around the same time anyway?

My only point against that would be that it might be slightly weird for both you and the viewers to come back to the game after an extended break. Not that I'd expect you to have any trouble with that especially since you'd be playing smw in the meantime anyway.