Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

[Hoeloe]

I may have worked out a way to let the counter save on checkpoints, which might help.

EDIT: Yes, I've got it working for multipoints in a way that won't break existing levels. The only change needed (once I update) is that multipoints must be imported using loadSharedAPI.

[Holy]

I may have worked out a way to let the counter save on checkpoints, which might help.

EDIT: Yes, I've got it working for multipoints in a way that won't break existing levels. The only change needed (once I update) is that multipoints must be imported using loadSharedAPI.

If you do that though, can the player like walk backwards and collect a dragon coin they collected before the midpoint again to increase the count?

[Hoeloe]

I may have worked out a way to let the counter save on checkpoints, which might help.

EDIT: Yes, I've got it working for multipoints in a way that won't break existing levels. The only change needed (once I update) is that multipoints must be imported using loadSharedAPI.

If you do that though, can the player like walk backwards and collect a dragon coin they collected before the midpoint again to increase the count?

Yes, this is why it's a decision that needs to be made as to whether this is desirable.

However, remember that they can't collect the checkpoint twice, so it's still not an optimal grinding strategy.

[SAJewers]

IMO if we're gonna do something like this, it should save which raocoins have been collected. Otherwise, i think it should stay the way it currently is.

[Hoeloe]

IMO if we're gonna do something like this, it should save which raocoins have been collected. Otherwise, i think it should stay the way it currently is.

It's extremely difficult to save which have been collected. The only even half sensible way is to determine their spawn coordinates and track based on that, and that doesn't account for a bunch of situations, so would probably only work half the time.

Other than that it would require manual tagging, which is pretty eh.

EDIT: So uh... for all that talk, I might have just implemented this.

Experimental at the moment, and relies on SMBX being a TINY bit sane, which is always a risk.

Essentially it relies on SMBX always loading the raocoins in the same order, for the first frame. It just loops through them, stores PNPC references and stores each individually in a data file.

The testing I've done so far is looking good.

[Mikkofier]

Mikkofier - Sheath and the Mysterious House

b. Add lunalua switchsaving
...
c. Add a second midpoint

I thought I did both of those things. Is the code not working?
EDIT: Or an old version?

[Hoeloe]

EDIT: So uh... for all that talk, I might have just implemented this.

Experimental at the moment, and relies on SMBX being a TINY bit sane, which is always a risk.

Essentially it relies on SMBX always loading the raocoins in the same order, for the first frame. It just loops through them, stores PNPC references and stores each individually in a data file.

The testing I've done so far is looking good.

Okay, so I've done a bit more testing and the saving of raocoins works in all cases EXCEPT the case where a raocoin is on a hidden layer. In that case, it doesn't correctly get removed when the level is started. I'll look into ways of fixing that.

EDIT: It looks like npc:kill() isn't working on hidden NPCs. Not sure what to do about this.

EDIT EDIT: For now, this line seems to work:

Code: Select all

v:mem(0x3C,FIELD_STRING,"");

That removes raocoins from any layers just before killing the NPCs. On hidden layers, this still won't kill them properly, but will stop them being shown by layer events, which should work for now.

[pholtos]

Oh dear, today was not a good day for levels on my end. I had one "I can't access this level" and a disapprove. I'll get the video up in an hour or two.

[Imaynotbehere4long]

I saw Pyro's review doc, but do the other video reviewers have one, too? I'd like to get more reviews on The Post Production Void, even after it gets 3 accepts, due to an unanticipated turn of events.

Reviewers, remember to take The Post Production Void's restrictions into account during your review; I mention this since it's probably the only level that has restrictions at all.

[pholtos]

3 - Omoru's All Star Palace - Disapproved.
(Looks like I wasn't the only one to review this negatively)

Could not access What about Railways? by Wohlstand for some reason.

[Darkonius64]

I checked my level one last time and it should be good.
Aaand now i wait for the reviews/videos

(inb4 rejected again)

[Wohlstand]

3 - Omoru's All Star Palace - Disapproved.
(Looks like I wasn't the only one to review this negatively)

Could not access What about Railways? by Wohlstand for some reason.

1) Where are you living? Server where file is placed - my and hosted at my home in Moscow. If you living too far (in American continents, Australia or Asia), you would have a slow speed with me
2) Mayby I had electricity reset at my home which caused down of my server. Everything works fine, try to re-download that or I will upload copy to Yandex-Disk as backup mirror
EDIT: Just made: https://yadi.sk/d/oCfWu2DZkYrs4

[Willhart]

I saw Pyro's review doc.

Where is that one? I don't remember seeing it and I'm curious.

[Hoeloe]

So I implemented a thing that saves which raocoins you've collected.

The way it works is that, on collecting a checkpoint, raocoins that have been collected in the level will be saved and won't be available to collect in the level next time you load it. Once you invalidate the checkpoint by either finishing the level or entering another level, the raocoins will respawn, so they are still an infinite resource. This should make collecting "all" the raocoins a little bit more possible. There is one situation that MIGHT cause issues: a raocoin on a hidden layer that triggers an event when collected. Currently it's not possible, as far as my tests have found, to actually destroy an NPC on a hidden layer (and forcing the layer to show allows the player to collect it twice if they're standing on it as it appears), so the code I have just moves it to a non-existent layer, ensuring that it can never get shown. Raocoins that are not on hidden layers will be properly removed, so it only applies to those on hidden layers.

If this is something we want, then I have drawn up a lunaworld file that will do this:

http://hastebin.com/ivotewiduc.lua

[Imaynotbehere4long]

I saw Pyro's review doc.

Where is that one? I don't remember seeing it and I'm curious.

I thought I saw SAJewers give this link to Pyro at one point, but looking at it again, I now see that it's actually Pholtos's review doc:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1J8V ... Fr-jU/edit

Sorry for the confusion. In my defense, they both have similar usernames and avatars

[pholtos]

4 - Wohlstand's What About Railways - Approved with a couple grammatical fixes plus maybe changing the boss.

[Wohlstand]

4 - Wohlstand's What About Railways - Approved with a couple grammatical fixes plus maybe changing the boss.

1) About bad grammar texts: http://pastebin.com/KsEKQwr9 - I just wrote small tool and extracted ALL existing texts (NPC messages and messages from events) inside my level EDIT: http://pastebin.com/gjaQLk0c I edited some phrases and this is a current state
2) Boss is not so important thing in a whole game and here it's a Mini-boss. Anyway question: your ideal boss for this level? (anyway, answers would be different from different people )

[raekuul]

So I implemented a thing that saves which raocoins you've collected.

The way it works is that, on collecting a checkpoint, raocoins that have been collected in the level will be saved and won't be available to collect in the level next time you load it. Once you invalidate the checkpoint by either finishing the level or entering another level, the raocoins will respawn, so they are still an infinite resource. This should make collecting "all" the raocoins a little bit more possible. There is one situation that MIGHT cause issues: a raocoin on a hidden layer that triggers an event when collected. Currently it's not possible, as far as my tests have found, to actually destroy an NPC on a hidden layer (and forcing the layer to show allows the player to collect it twice if they're standing on it as it appears), so the code I have just moves it to a non-existent layer, ensuring that it can never get shown. Raocoins that are not on hidden layers will be properly removed, so it only applies to those on hidden layers.

If this is something we want, then I have drawn up a lunaworld file that will do this:

http://hastebin.com/ivotewiduc.lua

I definitely need to test that against my level - being careless will keep two of the raocoins from being properly collected (you pluck the first one and it can kill one enemy that way, and the other one gets eaten by a pow block as part of a psyche-out against those who expect all the raocoins to be buried) so I need to know if they reset or not if they're not properly collected.

[Hoeloe]

I need to know if they reset or not if they're not properly collected.

Hmm. The case of one killing enemies could be awkward. I'll have to look into that, but there may be a fix. Basically, it counts as "collected" if the raocoin "dies" and is touching the player, so if those conditions aren't met, then the raocoin will respawn for the player to collect.

EDIT: Okay, I can fix it being "collected" by the player killing it, but this has called up an important point:

Raocoins that are buried or in blocks or otherwise not present in the stage on the first frame of the level can't be saved, so if you collect it, you'll be able to collect it again when spawning from a midpoint (though the level raocoin counter will still be accurate).

[SAJewers]

Maybe we should ban stuff like that? I know that was an issue with leeks in asmbxt (buried/bubble leeks wouldn't show up in the hub)

[Hoeloe]

Maybe we should ban stuff like that? I know that was an issue with leeks in asmbxt (buried/bubble leeks wouldn't show up in the hub)

I've actually fixed this issue. Looking into raocoins inside blocks now. I have less hope of being able to solve that one, however.

This code for lunaworld, coupled with raocoin2 v2.0.8, should fix the issues with grass, bubbles, eggs, etc. Blocks are more awkward and still being looked into. http://pastebin.com/pj6apq5W

[SAJewers]

ping

ping

ping

ping

ping

Any of you guys want to review some levels? The following need either 1 approval or 1 reject to get them out of the queue.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xzm2p91lg6pyl ... tudeV4.rar
http://www.mediafire.com/download/k3sbh ... raocow.zip
https://www.mediafire.com/?djrsgog5x2bcke8
http://www.mediafire.com/download/oahbi ... Frolic.rar
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxij3Y ... sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxij3Y ... sp=sharing
http://www.mediafire.com/download/bd85b ... y-Muwha.7z
https://www.dropbox.com/s/034jk9mgzuwjn ... e.zip?dl=0
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7EiMC ... sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9ZbT7 ... 0pxYktVX28
http://www.mediafire.com/download/br5b4 ... ezone3.lvl
http://www.mediafire.com/download/7ocu4 ... unrise.rar

http://www.mediafire.com/download/2h6th ... Nature.zip
http://www.mediafire.com/download/vh240 ... rigade.zip
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B--7KB7 ... sp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2zlbrv ... sp=sharing
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/678 ... nation.zip

[WestonSmith]

I plan on working on reviews Saturday. I've been delayed this week due to late work nights, but would like to get back to one review a day.

[ztarwuff]

Any of you guys want to review some levels? The following need either 1 approval or 1 reject to get them out of the queue.

That's how I review now. I pick the one with the most approvals and the one with the most rejections.

Escalation by KingTwelveSixteen
REJECTED

Level file should be outside of level folder. I can sum up every single objection I have to this level ine one sentence: The player is being asked to do pixel perfect jumping.

Those first two pencils require some very weird button presses from the player in order to clear them. Then that's followed by cramped Goopa jumping over spikes, where it's almost way too easy to headfirst into a spike. Also, why is that even necessary? Donut jumping is just as good. Also, that tea party is really misleading. The moment I got there, I had to kill myself because I'd killed the goopa that would have enabled me to progress.

Section 3: the bullet jump is stupidly difficult. More often than not, the player will accidentally kill it before they even make the first jump. The two springboard jump also seems impossible. I have no idea how you're supposed to do that. The inside of the ship feels like filler to make the level longer. The item stacking and homing paragoopa bouncing is tedious.

I'm also not a big fan of the bombs attacking the ship. I nearly died there for what? A joke. Seriously, those bombs came out of nowhere. I was just lucky I didn't get hit.

The level needs rehauling to make the jumps for forgiving.

Panic Attack at High Altitude by Axon
REJECTED

here's been much improvement since I last tested this level, but that stupid ghost I complained about last time round is still there! It's ridiculous that you've got a light blue NPC on top of a light blue background. It's the cheapest enemy hit in the entire level. Please get rid of it. Also, I don't know why I didn't mention it last time round, but the homing paragoopa section feels really spammy. Do you think you could replace the cloud platforms that stands out more against the background? My eyes were glazing over something fierce after the 13th attempt at doing the paragoopa bit as Iris. Something about her mechanics means I keeps slipping off the platforms, which is terrible when I'm having difficulties seeing the damned things. As with my last review of this level, I have no problems with Section 3.

[snoruntpyro]

Dark Prince by Willhart (1) (2) [Rejected]
Jumping Castle by Willhart [Approved]
The Second Longest Tree by Willhart [Approved]
Flip Blocks by cramps-man [Approved]

Disregard what I said in cramps-man's level, I see they fixed my complaint already and I had an outdated version. Whoops!