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ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by Leet »

the plot coming in at the last second and pretending in complete seriousness that there's been an emotional plot this whole time is, as they say, Very Very Good. i don't really care if it was written with more in mind or not, the way it's used here is exactly how it needs to be
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.
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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by RealLink »

So yeah uh that muncher boss is the other thing I contributed. I think I made it just as a fun project and asked YCZ if he wanted to add it to his level since it thematically fit. I was really happy about how it turned out back then but it clearly has problems. The timing is very unforgiving and having to play half a level before it doesn't help with learning it. I should've probably reduced the seed falling speed even more (yes they were faster in earlier versions of the sprite) and maybe added a few frames of grace period before they turn into munchers when they hit the ground to make it a bit more forgiving.
I really like the level itself, makes me feel bad it ends like this.
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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by camwoodstock »

so um as a psa for all future people reading this thread. i've written my pre-existing thoughts on the House of Turner out for the sake of the thread tomorrow and. i can safely say the bulk of that post is probably going in a spoiler tag unlike all of my "level thoughts" posts so far. why?
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...just a hunch ;v;
Leet wrote: 3 years ago the plot coming in at the last second and pretending in complete seriousness that there's been an emotional plot this whole time is, as they say, Very Very Good. i don't really care if it was written with more in mind or not, the way it's used here is exactly how it needs to be
i do kinda like the subplot of demo eventually coming to enjoy con's company but it's really weird how it tries to present itself as the MAIN plot in the world 8 intro in particular when it's. pretty obvious the entire plot is that demo needs her teleporter back.

also spoilers, con never appears again in an asmt game to my knowledge, so sadly we never really got a conclusion to the arc since it was kinda cut short and left ambiguous as to if it was going to continue even in the true ending to this game. #LetConAppearInA2XTEpisode3

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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by ano0maly »

Ashan wrote: 3 years ago Munchy Plant Ruins is one of the most memorable levels in this game for me. The joke was maybe a bit more relevant to the time it was released, but it’s a good one and the atmosphere of the overall level is cool memorable. The boss is neat too
oh . no . those . munchers . are . live

I really liked the reaction in the original LP
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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by Leet »

camwoodstock wrote: 3 years ago
Leet wrote: 3 years ago the plot coming in at the last second and pretending in complete seriousness that there's been an emotional plot this whole time is, as they say, Very Very Good. i don't really care if it was written with more in mind or not, the way it's used here is exactly how it needs to be
i do kinda like the subplot of demo eventually coming to enjoy con's company but it's really weird how it tries to present itself as the MAIN plot in the world 8 intro in particular when it's. pretty obvious the entire plot is that demo needs her teleporter back.
yes. this is the joke that i just described, in that post
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.
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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by Kilgamayan »

I am probably very basic but that cover of SCoM is so adorable <3
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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by Kilgamayan »

Wow, Perfect Dark and MegaMan Legends music in the same level. It's like I made something!
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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by Shard1697 »

love to get powerup filtered not just at the start of a level but also at arbitrary screen changes
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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by Ryrir »

I wonder if you can save Ninshi by creating a disco shell (and then using it to yoshi-fly over the pit).

There were full on yellow koopas after the message, so it should be possible, right?!
this is getting laundromatic
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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by Kilgamayan »

Ryrir wrote: 3 years ago I wonder if you can save Ninshi by creating a disco shell (and then using it to yoshi-fly over the pit).

There were full on yellow koopas after the message, so it should be possible, right?!
This would have been the perfect setup for giving that particular level a secret exit. Why flip the player one bird when you can flip them two?
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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by LunarRainbowShyGuy »

Forgot to mention it when we first got here, but the music for the map here is another thing I remember about this game.

I had seen people mentioning this level here and there, and so I was a bit worried when I walked onto this ghost house and saw the level name, but I actually didn't have too much difficulty here. That doesn't mean I had a fun time though; I died a number of times at the part with the eerie generator in the first half, and having to do all the running around at the beginning of the stage, including waiting out the duration of two p-switches, was really boring. I also want to give some attention to the reset doors, which might as well just kill you since they take you to the start of the level, except that the coins that form walls when you press the p-switches stay collected, which doesn't break the level or anything, it just reveals how pointless those barriers are.

The part with the eerie generator and the bouncy floor... well I don't even know where to begin talking about it. I agree with what raocow said about how it would be hard enough without the generator. Heck, even just dodging a single enemy at around the peak of your bounce height isn't trivial, and this generator makes you do that frequently while also dealing with a swarm of other enemies. There's also the issues with the camera, which could easily have been fixed, or at the very least alleviated, by moving the whole section down. Given that, I see why raocow would get the impression that this wasn't playtested. Personally, playtesting things just seems so obvious to me that the idea that someone wouldn't playtest their own level just seems crazy to me, although it would explain some things. I was too busy wondering whether people that make levels like these think that they're fun while playing through them.

Fortunately I didn't really die in the second half except near the beginning, because I feel like I would not have had a fun time if I did. Although if a level has someone saying something like "good thing I didn't die or I would have had a miserable time" it probably has some problems. I actually liked the puzzle to get the silver p-switch, although I feel like something like this shouldn't be in a level where you could die and have to do everything over again. The same thing applies for the puzzle on the left, which I also liked, except for all the spikes that you can easily brush against and die. The first time I figured everything out I was too slow to keep up with the shell because I didn't want to start going left too soon and run into the spikes. Also, while I'm talking about this puzzle, the part where you go into a room with the four different colours of koopas is another thing I remembered.

Of course, the level isn't over once you solve that puzzle. You still have to bring the p-switch to the door, fight a boss, and do a Yoshi jump that looks very possible to screw up, and if you die you have to do the second half all over again. I'm just glad that the boss doesn't filter your reserve powerup, because I have a feeling I wouldn't have beaten it first try without a cape.
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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by KobaBeach »

クルルン屋敷

turn is turn blocks
ergo, kururun as in kurukuru block
would have gone with kururu but kururun feels more like a surname

posting this before camwoodstock buries it yooo

EDIT: 𝕺𝖔𝖋.
EDIT 2: The Mega Man Legends music sounds like FPI's jank old custom music for TSRPR
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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by yoshicookiezeus »

I feel like the main issue with House of Turner is the same as with a lot of the other stuff chdata made: it feels like there was a lot of “ooh, wouldn’t it be cool if the level also had this!” when designing it, and no sense of when to stop (which I guess makes sense if he was that young when he made it). While the level design certainly has problems, especially in the first half, there are some things in it I genuinely like: the block graphics for the enemies are cute, the wall and p-switch maze is genuinely pretty neat, and the Koopa puzzle before the boss is an interesting idea even if it’s kind of a mess to actually execute.
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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by KobaBeach »

yoshicookiezeus wrote: 3 years ago I feel like the main issue with House of Turner is the same as with a lot of the other stuff chdata made: it feels like there was a lot of “ooh, wouldn’t it be cool if the level also had this!” when designing it, and no sense of when to stop (which I guess makes sense if he was that young when he made it).
i wish i had that same sense of whimsy in my level design
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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by Leet »

i vividly remember the part in the second half of this level with the rip van fish blocks because i thought that was the most genius thing ever

also a lot of parts of this level are great, and also im really really sure that chdata wasn't that young and i wasn't even around then. if you told me a 10 year old made this level i would say it is actually perfect relative to the work of all other 10 year olds on earth
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.
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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by camwoodstock »

You have entered the House Of Turner.

well, well, well. we're finally here. the most infamous level of asmt. even people who don't know about asmt know that this level is. generally not liked. with good reason, admittedly? and i'm not about to be someone who says "oh this level is actually neat!". no, it. really is just that bunk. but. it is easily one of the most FASCINATING levels to discuss as a result of all of its misgivings. you could genuinely write a formal essay discussing this level, and as i've joked about in this thread several times, you could probably submit it to an actual professor for a grade if they were lax about the subject. so, lemme talk abt it.

this is gonna be the longest post in this thread, i can guarantee this now unless someone comes up with some even more elaborate House of Turner Essay, or something WEIRD crops up in the final castle(s). giving you an idea as to just how LONG this post is, i'm working on a video script, and this post is currently about a third of the length of the script. as a result, i am putting this in a spoiler box. bar none. i know that may sound just. absolutely bonkers considering my longest posts in this thread aren't spoilered, but trust me. House of Turner is special enough that i have to put my essay in a spoiler tag.
as a preface, yes i know the dev was like. 11/12 when they made this level. and it's no secret said dev is chdata and for the record? it's actually a bit impressive when you think abt it like that. not like, mind blowing or anything, but this is definitely more than i could do as an 11/12 year old. there's custom blocks, and even a custom boss fight??? if there's one objectively cool thing about this level, it's that for the age the developer was, it's quite complex. however, some could argue this also came to be a detriment--the idea was just too ambitious and we got some of the stuff we got in the final version. that being said, i don't really wanna drag chdata into this for the most part. i'll mention him by name in a certain segment coming later but besides that i just kinda wanna consider this level in a bubble devoid of the fact it came from anything other than a child. i am reviewing this level in a situation where, for all i know, a 12 year old dog with impeccable smw knowledge made it and not a 12 year old human

also, not only did i watch raocow's video today--you'll see my thoughts on his playthrough quite deep down admittedly for a reason i'm about to tell you--but i went back and watched jupihornet's playthrough, and pinkkittyrose's as "second opinions", more or less. jupihornet mostly covers what it's like to "cheese" this level... and the problems it presents even if you do do that. he admits he finds the level more funny bad, but doesn't hesitate to mention how, even if you try to BREAK this level, it'll still find a new and unique way to break your psyche instead. he's a bit more lax but he pretty openly states that he thinks the level sucks--it's just that he thinks the level is funny bad, rather than full bad pink on the other hand, plays the level more or less "legit", and just... utterly OBLITERATES this 11/12 year old dev for lack of a better term. i'm actually gonna issue a language warning if you wanna go back to watch pink's video--she says a word off-handedly that, at the time was just kind of a word, but later on it would become... incredibly incredibly bad to say. pink didn't know it'd become such a terrible thing to say then, and there's no use complaining about it now, but i will say if you are particularly offended by what has now become the r-slur, don't watch, if that makes sense??? i will be making a point to avoid such language in my essay but if you want to check out my sources, um, you know them now

the concept, at least what i think is the concept, is alright enough on paper. turn blocks are evil and out to get you. get it? turner? turn blocks? it's a pun! thing is, as cool as that idea is... it results in every enemy kinda looking the same, as they resemble turn blocks TOO MUCH? they don't even really get decorated, all that changes are the facial expressions and the colors. i have to wonder if colorblind players struggle in this level, honestly? now, that'd be a thing as it was. but this is a ghost house, remember--so we have to have a puzzle too? honestly if this level played up the "combat" more and had turn blocks doing wacky things to hurt you, i think it'd be MUCH better off. and even moreso, the level kinda. also has ANOTHER gimmick of constantly forcing you to be either small or big with arrow blocks that "turn" you big or small? so it's hard to say the evil turn blocks is the true gimmick???

the graphics and music are... honestly bleak and depressing. the graphics are all kinda samey thanks to the turn block thing not going as far as it really could've, and the music... genuinely it just. feels depressing. it's no wonder people get so furious at this level, there's just. a complete void of the wackiness of asmt in it. you know the "negative emotional aura" meme? i think House of Turner has one, for like real actual though. not helping is that, in the puzzle section, the background literally says "LOL", which, i get is meant to be a joke, but like. it feels like the level is doing so at your expense the entire time. the juxtaposition of that "LOL" with the bleak, desolate music is... not a very good cognitive experience.

alright. let's get into the knitty gritty. the level design. you literally open with a powerup filter, and even though it keeps your reserve item... you may as well not bother, because of the arrow blocks. the only real situation where that'll be useful is if your reserve is a cape. if you had your cape on you? well. good luck! after that, you know how i've been saying there are two gimmicks? i lied. there's FOUR of them, because this room has togglable note blocks that you can TURN on or off. does this ever get used again besides the starting room? ...a little bit, but like, nowhere near enough for it to warrant these being the thing that the message block teaches you, and during this opening segment teaching you the two additional gimmicks to the two main gimmicks, you don't see the evil turn blocks, and the arrow blocks are used to filter your powerup. but i said four, not three! what's the fourth gimmick? well, enter the black and white brick walls, which if you're holding an item, the black walls TURN intangible, and if you're NOT holding an item, the white walls TURN intangible. also arrows for this segment for some reason, but no bouncy blocks. these two walls do at least appear in this room again after their intro, i'll at least give them that, that they appear more than the bouncy blocks. after THAT you have... two overlapping boo rings. or turner rings. you then need to get a p-switch from the other end of these turner ring... and carry it through the boo rings. jupihornet uses a glitch that effectively freezes the turner rings because honestly, this level would be UNBEARABLE without it. i think pink did it legit. in total you go through those double turner rings 3 times and need to babysit this p-switch for some of those passes.

after that, still in the same segment technically, you are then promptly expected to enable the bouncy blocks, get a shell form the top floor, go back down, literally lure a turner boo while uncontrollably bouncing (you're not meant to disable the bouncy blocks after getting the shell!), spinjump on one of the baited turner boos (you still need that shell by the way! be sure to throw that shell in a way where you can grab it mid-spinjump!) to get up top again in another location, and FINALLY use that shell to get through blocks. by the way, you know how you're constantly going from up and down? well some areas are marked with coins. those are safe. if they aren't marked with coins? instant death spikes. as jupihornet puts it--"yeah, no thanks.", before he promptly cheesed it by not turning on the bouncing blocks--he even did it without a cape, which is the method most people would consider cheesing it with. even still, that cheese strat without a cape involves spinjumping on the generator eeries and luring a different boo. like. HOW

after that... an autoscroller. with the eerie generator. and a turner big boo. just 'cuz, i guess. this autoscroller has no real impact on anything and, besides turner big boo, the only threat is the turner eeries being spawned by generator. oh and the generator eeries can bunch up on the left side of the screen so that's fun. enter the grandfather clock! it doesn't look like a door but you HAVE to. SIKE you've spawned atop down arrow blocks and TURNed small. LOL. welcome to the REAL puzzle.

y'know how, if you did the cheese strategy, you kept the bouncy blocks off? the dev thought of this! the dev also thought poorly of you for skipping that puzzle, because if they're off, there is no INTENTIONAL way to turn them back on, and as you need them on to progress towards the right. also if you used a cape to cheese it, that's been filtered unless you had the foresight to swap out in the autoscroller. so if there's no INTENTIONAL way to turn them back on, what about unintentional ways? the first, and the only way Pink was aware of in her video, is to literally Perish. the checkpoint is in the autoscroller (fun times) and the bouncy blocks enable by default, and don't save status between deaths. however, unlike what pink says in her video, there ARE more ways to advance... but honestly Death Is PReferrable. the second is to do a shell jump off the wall super mario maker style, in a frame perfect, precise input that some would argue is only possible with either savestates or TAS-level inputs (FUNNER times). the last thing you can do is wait for a turner eerie to generate coming in from the left at a very specific area--oh yeah, there's turner eeries to the left--and once it spawns, keep it on screen at all costs, and spinjump your way across, making one big spin-jump at the end to land atop the platform the bouncy blocks can usually bring you to no problem.

after that, guess what? a maze. with the black and white walls. and you need to carry a silver p-switch. but not a blue one! you need to just hit that one. now ferry that silver p-switch all the way to the left of the map. item babysitting time. there's a pair of munchers you need to take out with the silver p-switch. after that, you'll find another grandfather clock. do not bother! it does nothing! why is it there? i dunno! just keep heading left. and left. and left. some signs are pointing you right? ignore them! you'll eventually get a cape, and an arrow sign pointing to the left in a small crevace. sike, that's secretly a pipe to some koopas. but don't ignore it! you NEED a shell not just ANY shell, though, oh no, you need a BLUE one. if you didn't pick up the blue shell? Perish. okay, fly up to the top left. there's a radish. DO NOT TAKE IT. instead, you swipe it up into the instant death spikes, then tank a hit and lose the cape as you run across spikes on the bottom to keep the radish loaded, lure it all the way to a chamber across those spikes, and THEN take it. spin jump the turn blocks away, and in a block is a green shell with a turner koopa in it. let the turner koopa enter the blue shell, turn into a blue koopa on a PRECISE spot so it falls into a hole, set a shell into that hole, and send that shell flying. alternatively you could just put a shell next to that gap and make a mad dash (which is what jupihornet does), and ALL THAT. for a blue p-switch. remember that clock that does nothing? the one you ignored? it does something now! THIS p-switch is what you use to make a door appear in it. that p-switch you pressed earlier in the maze, though? can't bring it here, as Pink demonstrates. can't skip the top left section to my knowledge.

and after all that... is a boss fight with a solid red background. now, i like red. but this isn't one of those pleasing shades of solid red, nor is it really "scenecore" where it's like raw cherry red and at least pleasing in some bizzare fashion, no, it's just kinda bunk--it's this weird slightly darker shade, but is also still bright enough to be weird to look at, but not bright enough to have an appeal??? we found an uncanny valley of scenecore. oh and also you're filtered so you're small and no checkpoint because Of Course. at least you have a different song, which is actually quite pleasant compared to the Negative Emotional Aura you've been hearing. so you scale this stunlock heaven, and you are faced with the bosses. meet the Turner Twins. or really just... turn blocks with hammers that cause earthquakes that stun you. you gotta turn on the bouncy blocks--remember those?--and after that you just. bounce on their heads. there's spikes to the side of their arena but they aren't instant death. oh and if you damage these guys more and more they begin swinging their hammers more and more. you can potentially be chain-stunned if you land on the floor when the two of them are low on health. after an uncertain amount of time bouncing on these guys' heads, they both fall and you get a door.

you're basically done, there are no puzzle elements left, but basically doesn't mean fully done! how does "enemies on a totally flat surface with no variety" sound? eventually you get a yoshi. in a turn block. and they're a part of the yoshi resistance! time to CHUCK THEM IN A PIT. just as a little extra salt on the wound. oh, and it's possible to lose that yoshi, and there's no reset door outside. if that happens, i am sorry for you. apparently you can save the yoshi but it requires tas-level insputs. and after that... it's the goal. there's some arrow blocks at the end to constantly shift you, but it's just aesthetic by this point. the level ends. it's over. you have exited the House of Turner, alive. sanity intact is another story.

alright, so. probably the part you would expect me to discuss. raocow's playthrough. he does a lot of things that i didn't get to see with the playthroughs i was watching prior, as he actually went into this semi-blind, since it has been YEARS since he last played this level and he didn't remember it all that well. i don't think raocow is aware of the instant-death spikes in the bouncy block segment. in the opening with the interweaving boo circles, he did it legit and ALSO just constantly tanked the boo circles, using the arrows to just. constantly be immortal. and also, he croaks it due to getting surrounded by a ton of eeries and boos, on multiple occasions. and because of the p-switches, and the interlocking p-switches, you end up waiting. and waiting. AND WAITING. mario games are generally action platformers--note the first word! action! and on the other hand, once you get past those boo circles, there's TOO much action, because there's so many boos, and then there's the copious amount of eeries! and to add to that, the camera fights you the entire time,and while raocow seems to give it the benefit of the doubt... i genuinely feel like this was a deliberate design choice, considering the hidden instant-kill spikes are present. also! the shell puzzle in the top left. i genuinely do kinda wish that that worked. i'd probably require a different setup, but that sort of ingenuity would be much better? and, again. this level makes you wait, constantly, for these shells. and also, raocow has the misfortune of demonstrating something nobody should have to... if you die to the Turner Twins, you are re-doing the ENTIRE SEGMENT BEFOREHAND. i get that multi-checkpoints didn't exist quite yet, but, like. still. as raocow puts it, "i was hoping i'd find it more pleasant, but this level feels like it was made ENTIRELY in the editor".

so while i was doing digging for other videos on this level, curious to see if i could offer anything else than JUST other people's gameplay... i found some things i don't think have been acknowledged--in-development videos OF the house of turner by chdata themselves, with their own young self's commentary. i've linked an unlisted playlist of these videos for easy access to future people, right here. i'll be referring to chdata by name for this since it was his child self who made this level, and i comment on young chdata's own thoughts--not in a pretentious "this is what leonardo da vinci wanted when he drew this!" way, no, young chdata literally provides his own commentary

such features of these videos are a very terrible audio compression on chdata's screen recorder, which is apparently an unregistered hypercam 2. part of me is bothered there is an eternal unregistered watermark 2 just EMBEDDED into this video of an asmt level in its development, but also the fact it's the house of turner makes me feel like it's fitting in some bizzare way. but anyhow, literally in the description of the first video is "I think it's probably too difficult right now, but it is the one right before the castle that's before Bowser's castle." which... means young chdata thought his level was TOO HARD at one point???

the gameplay itself isn't too interesting admittedly, a lot of the design decisions were actually made pretty early on, but there's a few "interesting" bits, like versions of segments without some of the weird haphazard gimmicks like the white/black walls and bouncy block intros (the first video is LITERALLY just the boo circles part, only by the second part does it have the bouncy blocks), a requirement to double grab and also... clip a p-switch THROUGH AN UNREMARKABLE WALL... okay. OKAY. maybe this level was "too hard" in development, and by that, i mean ltierally impossible without a frame perfect input to clip a p-switch through a wall. either that or he's referring to how if you get bopped by the boo circles it is just toal misery. the insta-death spikes are insta-death MUNCHERS, and apparently that red outside (and presumably in the Turner Twins arena) is meant to be lava, as "there is lava all over the place outside the red" (this is exactly how young chdata puts it). also even in the second video you can see chdata constantly trying to rush his OWN boo circles? usually leading to death and a savestate reload? also even when he shows the expanded boo segment in the second video (which itself got partially scrapped, it originally asked for a SILVER p-switch too), it isn't actually completed and so he just croaks it after awhile.

oh, and in the bouncy block segment as it appears in video 3? originally the instant death spikes weren't labelled AT ALL. no coins. sometimes you'd jump up to a chamber and just Die Immediately. and yes, those spikes are there--you can see them clearly as chdata walks along the "safe" chambers. also, the instant death spikes are on the ceiling of the dividing walls of these chambers in this version! Y'know, Just In Case It Was Too Easy. after that is the autoscroller, which starts out normal. starts out, because it grows INCREASINGLY FASTER AND FASTER with later-unused turner bubbles until you slam into the clock at high-speeds with no telegraphing it's a door and yes, the autoscroll WILL crunch you will a wall and just Decimate You. there's a skull in the out of bounds, which is a reference to kirby super star according to young chdata... honestly that's one of the only cute parts of this level, i can't tell if it's in the final version as literally everyone knows to enter the grandfather clock, but also, at least in this version... the skull joke worked in kirby super star because the autoscroller was slow enough for you to react to it, while still seeing it as a warning. here you are literally on a high-speed collission course, the moment your brain's neurons activate "oh is that a skull?" you've been flung clear from this plane of being

...for some reason chdata's showcase of the level in-development just. Skips The Second Part and Also The Turner Twins Fight??? so we go to the area with ninshi, where... mouse cursor enemies attack like bulls-eye bills? according to young chdata, these existed in the level because "Somehow Windows entered the rom.". what is this, King Charles' Castle? needless to say, these cursor bulls-eye bills are not present in the final version of the level, and i think i can say for the better--not just because they are a general nuisance, but also it'd be INCREDIBLY disjointed. the whole level you're fighting evil turn blocks, right? then suddenly you're fighting windows xp for the final area??? also, apparently chdata was hesitant to have ninshi die, as he says he might change the pit jump to walking over munchers if someone suggests it to him, and a reset door if you lose yoshi... which he didn't include??? the last two videos are technically a two-parter of one video, including a look at a "near final" version of the level, but it's still missing the item wall introduction--instead the walls are just. unceremoniously used in the boo ring segment, evidently they were a late addition. the turner twins were yellow and their arena background was darker and generally more pleasing on the eyes, too. also if you miss the grandfather clock it will SCROLL OFF THE SCREEN and only then give you a wall of spikes. Cool... oh, by the way. notice something in here that i never mentioned? the filtering arrow blocks. they are NOT IN THIS VERSION OF THE LEVEL. it was a conscious, last-minute decision to add these blocks that TURN your height. no wonder they're exclusively used as free health stations and as item filters!

alright. i've spent a lot of time here roasting individal segments for being poorly designed. and they are, but there is one critical flaw that, above all else, utterly destroys this level. it has NO IDEA what it wants to be. as i mentioned, there are four unique "gimmicks" that this level seems to be going for, all of which can fit the "Turn" in "Turner". none of them really gel too well aside from the reskins of enemies into evil turn blocks, but BOY THAT DIDN'T STOP THIS LEVEL FROM TRYING. and what's weird is that even though there are four completely distinct new gimmicks... absolutely NONE of them are fully recognized to their potential. the only one that really has its own "moment" are the bouncy blocks. the arrow blocks? largely just used to filter your powerups at inopportune times or give you effective immortality--you never get to use the different properties of being big or small. the walls? you just get the maze with them. i genuinely want to ask. what WAS the intended theme? i am under the assumption it's "evil turn blocks" because of the boss fight being the Turner Twins, which are hammer-weilding turn blocks, and the enemies are all turn blocks. but i could literally be wrong and there's arguments you can make for each of the other 3 gimmicks being the "true" gimmick!

even the idea of "evil turn blocks", it doesn't go as far as it should. all reskins are based on vanilla SMW turn blocks, which is fine! but there is nothing in the level to force the level to use vanilla SMW turn blocks. you see a for-real, for-actual turn block in this game, and it's in the asmt art style, so any mimicry is foiled instantly. you mostly just get enemy reskins--not even BLOCK reskins! the munchers are just the same muncher replacement in every other level with the baby yoshis. you can't tell me that the idea of a turn spike wasn't possible. can you imagine if turn blocks started acting like different blocks? maybe a turn block masquerading as a switch palace block, but when you hit that block, it just. begins to spin! what about a turn block with a smug face that, you spin jump on it, and it doesn't break... but you pick it up, and it's secretly been a grab block! what about a turn block that grows spikes and has an evil grin when you're not looking, but when you look, it just looks normal, because it's a boo buddy block--and i do know boo buddy blocks ARE in this level, but all they do is have a blank expression when moving, and close their eyes when they aren't, they don't really play it up or make it obvious they ARE boo buddy blocks. maybe you have a turn block with a mouth agape and you hit it, and it gives you a message? what about a turn block with a strange chunk taken out of it, and it's actually a triangle block? what about a turn block with a mask, hiding its contents, and it's a roulette block? maybe just a gallant turn block with a chin, and you hit it, and it's just a normal concrete block in disguise!

heck, can you imagine if they played up the turn block aspect and the other gimmicks ALSO resembled turn blocks? that would make the other gimmicks feel much more in-place! you land on a turn block looking up or maybe having starry eyes, and it acts like the bouncy block instead, until you hit a P-switch shaped off switch and it turns into a very large "coin" that won't bounce you? maybe turn blocks that are normally still, but they are side-eyeing you, and if you are holding an item, they'll flip open, or if they see you hold an item, they flip shut! maybe hungry turn blocks on their side with their mouth open, and they either eat your current powerup or spit out a mushroom and force you big--alternatively they could be turn blocks with big and small faces, and if you step on a big faced turn block, it makes you big, and vice versa with the small faced turn block turning you small? maybe the insta-death spikes could be turn blocks shaped like lava, constantly furious at you, literally on fire with rage!

and SPEAKING of the reskins and how it's primarily enemy reskins, even those don't go as far as they could have? all of these look nearly IDENTICAL short of minor facial expression changes. and that'd be okay in the case of some stuff like the already blocky enemies like boo buddy blocks (which i did mention, even they don't really play up the "evil" aspect). but then there's the eeries and the normal boos and the galoombas and the koopas that are ALL just turn blocks but with colors??? only the big boo really has "unique" graphics, and to be fair, it's probably the closest thing to what i was thinking--it's a block now and it has no arms. but it also removed the mouth? it's not like the turn block resprites all lack mouths too; no, the koopas have mouths clear as day! the Turner Twins have mouths too! so like? why do that to be consistent if you're going to add mouths anyways??? sure, playing up the aesthetic of "evil turn blocks" wouldn't solve the level design. the level design is just as questionable, if not more so. but i don't think people would be AS mad if the level just. actually had a set theme.

speaking of the level design. stop using the arrow blocks as power-up filters. as it stands, they're just glorified item sappers that steal what you have as you enter the room, not even as a puzzle element. there was potential to have deciated stations where you can be big or small and can have different interactions with blocks as a result. this never really happens in the level, though? the item walls were never really used after the maze--give them a moment! maybe have floor versions so you have to juggle an item across them for a dagadon! the bouncy blocks could be used in a platforming section where they try to camoflage with other turn blocks! as it stands, none of these gimmicks have a real time to shine. they just kinda get their one segment, and are promptly forgotten about, and it's a HUGE bummer. it's all about forcing a puzzle to exist since it's a ghost house, and that puzzle will exist, regardless of if it even includes the gimmicks this level tries to have. i do get that generally the idea is to use the level theme to represent the level you'll play. but the House of Turner had a perfect excuse to NOT do that, and be a "ghost house" minus the puzzle! this isn't the House of Ghosts. it's the House of Turner.

lastly, the nitpicks. change the music. please. it's annoying at best, and at worst it genuinely stresses out. the yoshi part at the end is... pretty much superfluous. there could've been a different ending there honestly, probably one much better at that. can you imagine if there was a big P-switch at the end that just, turned all the evil turn blocks to coins, defeating them once and for all? that'd be a much more satisfying ending than "inexplicable yoshicide joke in a level that had nothing to do with yoshi". heck, even if not that, just. having the goalpost would be fine, too.

and THAT is my opinion on the House of Turner.
...oh, right, i also do a counter! tabarnak counter x4, i think? there are two cut-off ones this time, but these are courtesy of raocow just verbally stopping himself. i can't tell if the first one was just cut off weird or if he just said "damnit" in a weird way though, if it is then x3.5.
KobaBeach wrote: 3 years ago posting this before camwoodstock buries it yooo
jokes on you! i thought ahead at least on that department! spoiler tag BABEY!!! :rao:

genuinely fr though if this essay i wrote about my thoughts on The House Of Turner is my legacy in talkhaus i will NOT be complaining
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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by KobaBeach »

i just read all that and all i can say is that im finishing up hydlide 2 and it's just as bad (not worse, just as bad)
and i don't mind hydlide 1 too much

gives me flashbacks to my terrible magl2 level in terms of development, but if i decided to make A Literal Nightmare instead of just. bland but laidback
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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by Crow »

guess the house really did turner
i've honestly never played a video game in my life
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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by camwoodstock »

Cyril wrote: 3 years ago guess the house really did turner
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maybe, the real House of Turner were the friends we made along the way...???
"dingus prime, the alpha and omega of utter spoons"
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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by Crow »

also yeah reading the wall of turner

pink's commentary is. unfortunate, in hindsight. the points made are mostly fine but the way they are presented is not
i've honestly never played a video game in my life
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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by Ashan »

Yeah I definitely remember having lots of issues at the end of the first segment where you're on a whole area of bouncy blocks and there's an eerie generator and platforms you have to blindly navigate above the camera. And there's so much waiting to get back to it every time. This is nothing that wasn't said in the video, but I'm sure everyone who played this came to that conclusion. If it wasn't for that, i think this would be a pretty great level overall.
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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by PSI Ninja »

Despite all of the flack that The House of Turner has gotten down the road, what's weird to me is that in the old LP, raocow never really lost his temper while playing that level. In fact, up to that point, he had been pretty happy playing ASMT. Contrast that to when he played SMWCP only a year later, where he seemed to get angry and annoyed at things more often, and even made some sarcastic remarks about the hack. So, I wonder why there was such a big difference? I remember asking myself that question back then. Maybe SMWCP was around the time when raocow started getting more strict with not using savestates and rewinds or whatever, and he felt more pain from dying at the longer, more frustrating levels? Or maybe he was more biased and had a predisposition to liking ASMT more, specifically because it was a Talkhaus production? I mean, both hacks had questionable level design and their own set of problems, but I've always wondered why there was more dislike of SMWCP compared to ASMT.

Anyway, here's the weekend review of the demos for videos 24-27. I tried posting my comment for today's level earlier in the day, but YouTube kept eating it for some annoying reason.

asmt replay - 24 - the boat level with the parrot
I love that one Paragoopa that just hops up and down in place. You actually one-more-levelled into SS Cotopaxi back then, after playing PANIC PUZZLE (which was given as Desert Sprint in the level list you had). Now, wasn't this particular parrot the subject of the dragon coin replacement in A2MT? Speaking of A2MT, nice reference at [22:09].

(then: 10, now: 13) SS Cotopaxi (normal exit)
(then: 3, now: 3) SS Cotopaxi (secret exit)

(then: 364, now: 296) Total demos
(difference: 68, -3 from yesterday)

2010 observations: There wasn't as much flickering at the top of the screen, so maybe this had to do with using ZSNES back then? In the autoscroller section, you did an impressive (pixel-perfect?) spin jump into the column of Bullet Bills to avoid that trap. Towards the end of the secret exit, you did the platforming with the treasure chest in the same manner as today, by spin jumping on the Eeries instead of going through the water.
asmt replay - 25 - the beige house level and the grey mountain level
Happy 300th demo day! And mixing ASMT sprites with VIP and SMW sprites? This is madness!

(then: 8, now: 7) In and Out! Boo Circles
(then: 6, now: 5) Ara's Desert Serac

(then: 378, now: 308) Total demos
(difference: 70, +2 from yesterday)

2010 observations:

In and Out! Boo Circles: Your thought process for the three springboards section was interesting. You kept making the coin snake go towards the left to get the first springboard near the reset pipe, then sprung upwards to get the second one above the mass of coins. Then you tried to Eerie bounce to get to the exit door in lieu of a third springboard. You died of Time Up after trying out many things, except making the coin snake go towards the right (which was the last thing you tried).

Ara's Desert Serac: Nothing to do with the gameplay, but you called the punching enemy "Botaro" (I'm guessing it's a portmanteau of Boon and Jotaro).
asmt replay - 26 - the layer 2 scrolling level and the muncher level
Nice, two 80s rock songs in one level. It's always weird to hear real world songs in SMW hacks.

(then: 3, now: 0) USE YOUR ILLUSION (main stage)
(then: 8, now: 3) USE YOUR ILLUSION (boss)
(then: 3, now: 5) Munchy Plant Ruins (main stage)
(then: 8, now: 3) Munchy Plant Ruins (boss)

(then: 400, now: 319) Total demos
(difference: 81, +11 from yesterday)

2010 observations: Really clutch victory for the Big Boo fight with only one second left. Took some demos to get there, though. The HP for the Muncher boss kept bugging out whenever you shot a fireball (went from 6 down to 0 or 2). A big chunk of your deaths were from landing on the egg too late, as it hatched into a Muncher.
asmt replay - 27 - the level called House of Turner
House of Turner House of Turner House of Turner House of Turner House of Turner

(then: 10, now: 6) The House of Turner (main stage)
(then: 1, now: 1) The House of Turner (boss)

(then: 411, now: 326) Total demos
(difference: 85, +4 from yesterday)

2010 observations:

The House of Turner: The major choke points in today's video were the same as back then: the first section where you needed to get the green shell, and the shell-kicking part in the second half (which you pretty much just rewind-scummed). Also, you called the Big Boo in this level "Jumbotron".
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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by Ashan »

PSI Ninja wrote: 3 years ago Despite all of the flack that The House of Turner has gotten down the road, what's weird to me is that in the old LP, raocow never really lost his temper while playing that level. In fact, up to that point, he had been pretty happy playing ASMT. Contrast that to when he played SMWCP only a year later, where he seemed to get angry and annoyed at things more often, and even made some sarcastic remarks about the hack. So, I wonder why there was such a big difference? I remember asking myself that question back then. Maybe SMWCP was around the time when raocow started getting more strict with not using savestates and rewinds or whatever, and he felt more pain from dying at the longer, more frustrating levels? Or maybe he was more biased and had a predisposition to liking ASMT more, specifically because it was a Talkhaus production? I mean, both hacks had questionable level design and their own set of problems, but I've always wondered why there was more dislike of SMWCP compared to ASMT.
I can't speak for him but I think SMWCP was just kind of baffling because after all the years of SMWC holding people to such high standards when it came to quality and difficulty, rejecting submissions for not meeting their rigorous standards, they finally released a full hack with their name on it and it wasn't even that good and didn't really seem to be in line with those standards people have associated with them for all those years.

You're right that both hacks have questionable level design and their own set of problems, but that doesn't really mean they're of comparable quality. ASMT is just a better game
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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by Leet »

From what I remember a fair amount of SMWCP levels were long and greuling in a not particularly interesting way. Like just full of repetitive stuff with a serious yet boring aesthetic. Not that I dislike SMWCP that much really (it had varied and memorable levels too!), that's just what I remember about its cave levels in raocow's LP that became frustrating.

House of Turner is frequently annoying and ill thought out but it isn't really like that, it has a ton of variety and a huge sense of playfulness, especially if you've never seen it before. The tight p-switch carry maze, the clock door, the aesthetic, the continuing to introduce cute graphic replacements until the end, and then even an extra joke section after the boss. You can tell the author had fun coming up with all these crazy ideas, which makes it vastly more endearing imo than a 15 minute long cave maze where everything looks the same.
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
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Re: ASMT 11th Anniversary LP - Hey There Guy

Post by Crow »

SMWCP standards are so low that it makes murder death place zone look like a tempting alternative. a bad temptation that will make you even more miserable, but a temptation nonetheless

man i don't remember anything about SMWCP except that one cave level that was like twenty minutes long
i've honestly never played a video game in my life
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