Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1he First place entry...well d0ne to all.
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - We've hit 100th now! Also raocow liked the new level
As if "no life farms" rule would be enforceable. What would be here to stop the level author from providing a ridiculous number of 1UPs in a level. Or coins for that matter, if 1UPs would be banned.
Nevermind that such a rule is a bad idea anyway.
Nevermind that such a rule is a bad idea anyway.
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - We've hit 100th now! Also raocow liked the new level
100th: Overgrow Chateau by Zyglrox Odyssey + TaviTurnip
100th: Forest Level by underway
99th: Chuckmania by RedAstaire (Rockythetigre)
Last edited by Sugar 3 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - We've hit 100th now! Also raocow liked the new level
Only like 45 seconds into the video but "my" level was a collab with TaviTurnip. I don't know why it's only being credited to me `~`
e: Thank you Koopster for mentioning it in your comments, thereby confirming I definitely did make that clear when I submitted it. It's been long enough I almost doubted myself :?
e: Thank you Koopster for mentioning it in your comments, thereby confirming I definitely did make that clear when I submitted it. It's been long enough I almost doubted myself :?
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - We've hit 100th now! Also raocow liked the new level
Fixed in my post above. Not sure why VLDCX results as well as SMWDB only lists you, however. My guess is it's because TaviTurnip is not a member of SMW Central (RenaTurnip however is, but Zyglrox specifically said TaviTurnip), but I don't know really.
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - We've hit 100th now! Also raocow liked the new level
Okay but that's... That kind of pedantry only makes sense if they automated some part of this `~` I could see a script being like "ERROR: User "TaviTurnip" not found" but I can't imagine a person organizing this whole thing looking at this situation and going "welp, guess we just won't credit this other person".
e: I know I'm the one that posted the level. Are there any other collabs that are credited correctly? I guess it's possible they just credited whoever posted the level, without actually reading into anything like "hey this was a collab"
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - We've hit 100th now! Also raocow liked the new level
This isn't a level. I appreciate what you're trying to do here, it's super creative. But you have the wrong contest.
How are narrative, atmosphere, and aesthetics not components of level design?Nice story and æsthetic, but this is a level design contest, not a story and æsthetic contest
This is a level design contest, not a satisfactory gameplay contest
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - We've passed 100th! Prelude to 'the!
I do kind of agree that "level design" is a pretty confusing term; to design a "level" requires more than just gameplay. The only reason "gameplay" takes a huge priority is because of JUMP and recent Kaizos basically killing every subcategory of SMW Hack genres besides like, "Nintendo" styled levels. That, and level design is basically universally accepted to be the same as satisfying gameplay thanks to the billion analysis videos on youtube, so you really can't separate the two anymore.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - We've passed 100th! Prelude to 'the!
Why does every conversation have to mention jump? What does that have to do with anything?
Anyway, I do disagree with the judges that this isn't a "level", cause it is. And it's quite creative. But when we host contests on smwc, it's generally accepted that the "level design" category is a component of mario's interactions with enemies, structures, and the environment in a "platforming, action, or puzzle / video game sense". Atmosphere, story, creativity, and more are all included in the rubric, under "creativity" and "aesthetics". Perhaps the category name "level design" could be more clear, but it's almost universally accepted that judges try to do their best to avoid too much spillover into other categories.
Anyway, I do disagree with the judges that this isn't a "level", cause it is. And it's quite creative. But when we host contests on smwc, it's generally accepted that the "level design" category is a component of mario's interactions with enemies, structures, and the environment in a "platforming, action, or puzzle / video game sense". Atmosphere, story, creativity, and more are all included in the rubric, under "creativity" and "aesthetics". Perhaps the category name "level design" could be more clear, but it's almost universally accepted that judges try to do their best to avoid too much spillover into other categories.
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - We've passed 100th! Prelude to 'the!
JUMP was the stepping stone to "focused gameplay", which is why I mentioned it. Yeah JUMP itself isn't 100% made to be that kind of style (that belongs to JUMP 1/2, arguably), but it is what really set the notion to gameplay being priority #1, and also credited as inspiration for the various hacks in that style.
There is a fair bit of irony to it, I know.
There is a fair bit of irony to it, I know.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - We've passed 100th! Prelude to 'the!
gameplay is priority #1 because that's what you do in most platformers. you play it, you jump and run.Daizo wrote: JUMP was the stepping stone to "focused gameplay", which is why I mentioned it. Yeah JUMP itself isn't 100% made to be that kind of style (that belongs to JUMP 1/2, arguably), but it is what really set the notion to gameplay being priority #1, and also credited as inspiration for the various hacks in that style.
There is a fair bit of irony to it, I know.
i don't know why you're seeing this as some bizarre conspiracy from jump and kaizo to kill off every smw hack with cutscenes or whatever
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oogggghhhh games aren't art Fuck You Roger Ebert *kills him with a hamemr*
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - We've passed 100th! Prelude to 'the!
If you've participated in, played, or watched any VLDC levels you know what kind of levels to expect from the contest. VLDC expects (action-)platforming and the judging rubric was designed to accommodate that.
Underway's level was so clearly outside of what all of the other participants and judges expected out of the contest that they couldn't feasibly fairly judge the level using the existing rubric.
Underway's level was so clearly outside of what all of the other participants and judges expected out of the contest that they couldn't feasibly fairly judge the level using the existing rubric.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - We've hit 100th now! Also raocow liked the new level
Were designers docked points if they had a dragon coin on a subscreen boundary? Asking for a friend.
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - We've passed 100th! Prelude to 'the!
There is no denying that the only thing people care about these days is gameplay overall thanks to it, and it's not necessarily a bad thing to give it attention because it was a problem before. I just feel that as soon as anything strives away from gameplay, suddenly people have the erge to say "no stop it you fool we don't want your fancy graphics or story novel." The only really new hacks I see that remotely represent what "forest level" is going for is Ganymede and ALPHA SPHERE... that's it. when you have to plug your own work as an example, you know it's a dying art.
Maybe it is a little unfair to pin the blame on JUMP itself I'll admit, but there is a reason why the term "JUMP design" exists as a term along with it being credited as an inspiration in GPWII. The whole goal of JUMP 1/2 was to be only "the good half" of the package, after all.
Yes it should've been obvious that in the end, you're modifying a platformer intended to be a platformer before JUMP came into existance, but there exists another abstract term called a "genre". I am still a firm believer that if you want to represent a different genre in your mario video game, go right ahead and show off. There's other hacks that fit your niche if it doesn't suit one's tastes.
>BUT< For this contest, yes, this isn't the time to submit your 'the predecessor. All I was doing is clearing up the "level design" confusion and why it's so heavily associated with gameplay. In the end, you have to know what your judges want in order to win, and these judges were very strict to gameplay this time around... it's what happens.
I spent far too long on this post, lordy.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - We've hit 100th now! Also raocow liked the new level
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - We've passed 100th! Prelude to 'the!
It's been suggested by several people that a creativity contest would be a nice idea to have. The contest would focus on what sort of creative ideas you can create with LM, whether that be compelling and interesting stories, creative atmosphere and aesthetics, or even using ASM to come up with a unique "level" that isn't exactly a level per say (for example, what if you wanted to recreate pong in SMW? Impressive, but does it count as a level? Well, it would here). It would be nice to give those levels a chance to shine. Not that they shouldn't in VLDC, but it's very hard to judge these levels against the rest of the levels, in defense of the judges.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - We've passed 100th! Prelude to 'the!
I think I should come at my argument from a different angle cause yeah my last post is getting off into the weeds and isn't really the point I'm wanting to convey.
I also didn't notice until now that the 3 scores are weighted differently, with design being half of the total mark, and the judges gave pretty fair rankings for creativity and aesthetics.
Basically, I've always seen the point of this contest as "take the strict limitations of vanilla, and show off what you can do with them." SMW hacking as a whole has always appealed to me cause it's really interesting to see what people are able to pull off in a fairly limited engine, and it's why I never cared for SMBX stuff, because you can basically do anything and it's way easier because it's a modern, flexible engine. Some of the most interesting pieces of art come from working within self-inflicted limitations, and I think that's what the vanilla contests can highlight. Most people will make fancy setups with unique interactions between things that aren't usually put together, and that's all cool, those are the gameplay-focused entries. But the scoring system/judging methodology doesn't seem to give enough credit to entries like Forest Level that I think is an great instance of ingenuity within the vanilla limitations. It's just showing that ingenuity in "the wrong way" so it scores badly.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - We've passed 100th! Prelude to 'the!
"This isn't the time or place to submit a level that isn't going to win" seems like an insane rhetoric since I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people entering do not expect to actually win.
Give it a low score if you didn't like it, sure, but don't suggest they're doing something to be looked down on because they aren't focusing on what's likely to win. Especially in a contest that was advertised as going to be compiled into a game, in which a level that's totally different from most of the others would be well-appreciated in a long game.
But of course, we only have to think back to when the maglx level that was explicitly presented as "here's a nice place to relax in between the other entries" got people EXTREMELY MAD for existing, or for a judge daring to say it was their favorite.
"Not a level", "not a game", "not art". And the cycle of conservative game design thought goes on.
Give it a low score if you didn't like it, sure, but don't suggest they're doing something to be looked down on because they aren't focusing on what's likely to win. Especially in a contest that was advertised as going to be compiled into a game, in which a level that's totally different from most of the others would be well-appreciated in a long game.
But of course, we only have to think back to when the maglx level that was explicitly presented as "here's a nice place to relax in between the other entries" got people EXTREMELY MAD for existing, or for a judge daring to say it was their favorite.
"Not a level", "not a game", "not art". And the cycle of conservative game design thought goes on.
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - We've passed 100th! Prelude to 'the!
Good point, plus the fact people wanted to be a part of what was to be known as the "biggest collab" so these levels do make sense in that context. It's just you can't fault a judge for judging.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - We've passed 100th! Prelude to 'the!
This is why I expect my MaGLX3 level to not score very high.gbreeze wrote: ↑3 years ago It's been suggested by several people that a creativity contest would be a nice idea to have. The contest would focus on what sort of creative ideas you can create with LM, whether that be compelling and interesting stories, creative atmosphere and aesthetics, or even using ASM to come up with a unique "level" that isn't exactly a level per say (for example, what if you wanted to recreate pong in SMW? Impressive, but does it count as a level? Well, it would here). It would be nice to give those levels a chance to shine. Not that they shouldn't in VLDC, but it's very hard to judge these levels against the rest of the levels, in defense of the judges.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - We've passed 100th! Prelude to 'the!
i think it's fair that the contest has a (albeit unspoken) bias towards the gameplay aspect of level designs, because that's the main reason a lot of people are interested in romhacks,
but i'm just saying, if someone wants to start up a smw demoscene, that'd be cool too, i'd like to look at that
but i'm just saying, if someone wants to start up a smw demoscene, that'd be cool too, i'd like to look at that
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strange bluebird website (check it out for my art!)
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - We've passed 100th! Prelude to 'the!
98th: ninjaboy.xls by tomato jonson
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - We've passed 100th! Prelude to 'the!
Tomato Jonson strikes again! This level wasn't very fun. Some saws placement is creative, but it's just one death trap after another. It's annoying level. I remembered this level wrong. I thought it has 4 sections + boss, but actually it has 2 sections + boss. Also no midpoint. No idea what judges saw in that level to score it higher than many previous levels.
Is it less fun than Mountan Castle? Not for me. Mountan Castle was super long, more precise level with lots of really bad design decisions. It was really huge trainwreck for me, which forced me to use savestates, rewinds and slow down. And even then I couldn't beat it on my first playthrough. On the other hand Ninjaboy.xls is shorter and less precise, so I could finish it with just savestates.
As for first double saw - I believe with enough momentum you can jump over it. But it's very hard.
Is it less fun than Mountan Castle? Not for me. Mountan Castle was super long, more precise level with lots of really bad design decisions. It was really huge trainwreck for me, which forced me to use savestates, rewinds and slow down. And even then I couldn't beat it on my first playthrough. On the other hand Ninjaboy.xls is shorter and less precise, so I could finish it with just savestates.
As for first double saw - I believe with enough momentum you can jump over it. But it's very hard.
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - OK still looking at 100th! To level or not to level...
Yep there's that sweet level design we were craving
e: yeah, after watching that whole thing, it's like a Kaizo: Light except done using very annoying, not easy to read mechanics. I'd say this would place high in a KLDC, but considering how strict those Kaizo streamers like their games, a lot of that strict platforming does not give you a satisfying flow to it (especially with some of those seemingly-forced hit areas). The level isn't 100% garbage, the ideas are salvageable and if you look at every obstacle individually it is creative, but the fact that you have to go through all those really hard setups in one run really doesn't make this "fun" to go through.
e: yeah, after watching that whole thing, it's like a Kaizo: Light except done using very annoying, not easy to read mechanics. I'd say this would place high in a KLDC, but considering how strict those Kaizo streamers like their games, a lot of that strict platforming does not give you a satisfying flow to it (especially with some of those seemingly-forced hit areas). The level isn't 100% garbage, the ideas are salvageable and if you look at every obstacle individually it is creative, but the fact that you have to go through all those really hard setups in one run really doesn't make this "fun" to go through.
My YouTube channel - P-Switch... - 100 Rooms of Enemies: The Nightmare Edition
Links above if you want to check 'em out... or not, since these are overlooked.