Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- Happy New Year!!
- Mandew
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- Sunset Hour in Summer Alaska
This level has a Max-Min score of 40. I presume that the Darkness part of this level was the divisive aspect here, perhaps for technical reasons. It's unfortunate, really; had it been handled in a less divisive way, I'm assuming the level could have easily been 5 to 10 points higher in the scoring, placing it in the rankings of the high 70's -- and that's assuming the other judges weren't also negatively affected by the darkness section, albeit to a lesser degree.
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- FrozenQuills
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- Sunset Hour in Summer Alaska
iirc I only thought of the darkness as a minor annoyance and not game breaking.
but looking at raocow's playthrough, that is WAY darker than what I saw lol
but looking at raocow's playthrough, that is WAY darker than what I saw lol
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- Sunset Hour in Summer Alaska
I think the first Mario game to have a poison forest/jungle was SM64DS, with the Goomboss level. NSMB world 4 codified the trope into what people think of today.
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- Sunset Hour in Summer Alaska
95th, Panic at the Docks, by Trollope
43.25/100.00 points
Scores:
93rd (tied), Yoshi's Island 2 (Dark Forest), by The Hacking Yoshi
46.00/100.00 points
Scores:
93rd (tied), Level Entry, by Flabort
46.00/100.00 points
Scores:
As mentioned in the YT comments, Youtube does actually do a bit of brightness correction on its videos so it's not clear to a watcher how truly dark the second level gets in the second half. So I've taken some screenshots of the level to show just how dark it was:
In the first screenshot I'm dying to a Ninji you just cannot see. Can you make out the turn block, coins or ? switch block somewhere above Mario? That's probably much more accurate to what raocow was (not) seeing when he played. The second screenshot shows that it does't really get much better once you hit the ? block.
Funny enough, this seems to be purposeful. The palette between the two areas is NOT the same. The second area's palette is actually slightly darker than the first one's, meaning the dark spotlight effect that gets overlaid would make the level even darker once the color math is applied. Had they kept the exact same palette between the two areas, it might have been a bit easier to see, though I still believe it was a bad idea for the level overall.
43.25/100.00 points
Scores:
46.00/100.00 points
Scores:
46.00/100.00 points
Scores:
In the first screenshot I'm dying to a Ninji you just cannot see. Can you make out the turn block, coins or ? switch block somewhere above Mario? That's probably much more accurate to what raocow was (not) seeing when he played. The second screenshot shows that it does't really get much better once you hit the ? block.
Funny enough, this seems to be purposeful. The palette between the two areas is NOT the same. The second area's palette is actually slightly darker than the first one's, meaning the dark spotlight effect that gets overlaid would make the level even darker once the color math is applied. Had they kept the exact same palette between the two areas, it might have been a bit easier to see, though I still believe it was a bad idea for the level overall.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- Sunset Hour in Summer Alaska
It's likely that they were tested in SNES9x or something because like VIP5 had this exact issue with an Area 42 segment iirc
We had to disable color blending or w/e to make it actually visible in hardware and bsnes
We had to disable color blending or w/e to make it actually visible in hardware and bsnes
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- Sunset Hour in Summer Alaska
About darkness - the reason that some people have no problem with that and others have huge problem may be also brightness of your monitor. I tested it with minimum brightness and for me the whole screen was just black. Then I tested on my usual settings and I could barely see blocks and enemies. Same goes for screenshots posted here. So maybe that's raocow problem - his brightness setting is too low.
- Mandew
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- Sunset Hour in Summer Alaska
I said this before, and I'll say it again; the pitfall of darkness gimmicks is that you have to account for some people having different monitor settings than others. It's not just an issue of brightness; there are plenty of other settings which can tip it over to "overdone", including contrast, red/green levels, and even things such as a Night Light mode being active. It would be unreasonable to ask your player to have to change their otherwise perfectly functional monitor settings -just- so they can play your level. Always keep in mind that the player has the bigger end of the stick and can very easily decide to move your game into the trash can if the hassle cannot be justified.
Either make it so everyone has the same restricted visibility, or tone down the effect so everyone can still see everything with relative ease, regardless of settings. I'm usually all for divisive contents, but I think contents should be divisive for direct personal reasons, and not technical ones.
Otherwise I thought the level looked like a contender for the top half of the rankings. And honestly, I know why this sort of mistake happens. "How bright everyone's monitors are" is not something that's super obvious to have in mind. Hopefully this contestant won't have to deal with these divisive circumstances again, 'cause I'm legit interested in what else they could do. They seem to have a ton of potential.
Either make it so everyone has the same restricted visibility, or tone down the effect so everyone can still see everything with relative ease, regardless of settings. I'm usually all for divisive contents, but I think contents should be divisive for direct personal reasons, and not technical ones.
Otherwise I thought the level looked like a contender for the top half of the rankings. And honestly, I know why this sort of mistake happens. "How bright everyone's monitors are" is not something that's super obvious to have in mind. Hopefully this contestant won't have to deal with these divisive circumstances again, 'cause I'm legit interested in what else they could do. They seem to have a ton of potential.
video games
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- Sunset Hour in Summer Alaska
I disagree with you. Author made level with his brightness in the mind. I don't think he will ever think that other people can see the stuff, because they have lower brightness. It's your role to adjust brightness. Just like in video games - you have problem to see anything, then it's you who needs to increase brightness. I mean nobody send mails to the author to increase the brightness of their games, right?
By the way, I checked first half of this level too. On minimum brightness I couldn't see the background - it was completely black for me. On my normal settings I could see it normally. It's just a guess, but by his low brightness settings, it's possible that raocow misses some visual effects in the levels. Like the background made from dark colors.
By the way, I checked first half of this level too. On minimum brightness I couldn't see the background - it was completely black for me. On my normal settings I could see it normally. It's just a guess, but by his low brightness settings, it's possible that raocow misses some visual effects in the levels. Like the background made from dark colors.
- Mandew
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- Sunset Hour in Summer Alaska
Sorry, but no. If it were an entire game that consistently employs dark coloration, it would be one thing. This, however, is one half of a level. A level whose other half employs plenty of bright and saturated colors. A level which, like every other level in this contest, has everything to prove. Should it fall onto the player's responsibility to discard the monitor settings they prefer for all of 5 minutes, and struggle to set it back to the way it was prior? Especially with zero promise that it'll be worth it? No.
video games
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- Sunset Hour in Summer Alaska
Piesonscreations wrote: ↑4 years agoSomeone in the comments suggested that maybe the level wasn't playtested on low brightness, and that could be the case, but I have my monitor at 30% and I still could see just fine, so I really don't know.
It's not just a matter of brightness. There's other factors to take into consideration as well. For example my monitor is an S-IPS monitor with a tempered glass panel. Colors in general are richer on it but no matter what settings I use, dark things are ridiculously dark. Gamma usually has a far greater impact on dark scenes than brightness. (Though in my case my monitor is a cheap Korean monitor so it doesn't even support hardware gamma settings.) On top of that different monitors don't show the same black levels as well.Implo wrote: ↑4 years agoAbout darkness - the reason that some people have no problem with that and others have huge problem may be also brightness of your monitor. I tested it with minimum brightness and for me the whole screen was just black. Then I tested on my usual settings and I could barely see blocks and enemies. Same goes for screenshots posted here. So maybe that's raocow problem - his brightness setting is too low.
- Mandew
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- One of the tougher lines in picross
I'm pleasantly surprised. We're barely in the top 100 and we're already getting plenty of fully functional levels, and ambitious ones that have one or two mishaps.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- One of the tougher lines in picross
92nd, Sunny Shoreline, by TheSpeedyJay
47.50/100.00 points
Scores:
91st, Yoshi's Island 1 (Crystal Forest), by Cryses96
47.75/100.00 points
Scores:
90th, Rocky Forest, by Green Jerry
48.25/100.00 points
Scores:
morsel's score on Crystal Forest was a definite outlier compared to the rest of the judges. In general we found he had a preference for, or at least was less deterred by, harder setups like the one experienced in the beginning cave. It makes sense given his hacking background. That's why it's interesting to have judges with a variety of backgrounds because you get a more representative swathe of judgments.
47.50/100.00 points
Scores:
47.75/100.00 points
Scores:
48.25/100.00 points
Scores:
- Kilgamayan
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- One of the tougher lines in picross
Still hoping for an eventual level design competition where the judge team is made up entirely of people that do not play or design romhacks
RNG: The Contest
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- One of the tougher lines in picross
vldc 12 ft. guest judge shigeru miyamoto
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- One of the tougher lines in picross
We had the space episode today.
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- One of the tougher lines in picross
ahh 🙝 «altair» 🙐 was amazing〜 i get its thanks to visual charms for a big piece of that♡♡but ahh it does it so so well∗ ͙ ⃰ the level maker managed to craft something that feels so genuinely organic— but not by hiding what the graphics and stuffs were. its one of those instances were a level kinda looks both vanilla and not at the same times* ͙܍ i dont know really how to articulate it better than it just really hit a rhythm with me❤♡
⚞andahhgoshdolphins ⚟
⚞andahhgoshdolphins ⚟
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- One of the tougher lines in picross
Altair's palette choices were really very good but the graphics overall were very cluttered and unfocused, which I'm not into myself, and had a negative impact on gameplay. Having lots of ornamentation in muted colours alongside spikes in very similar muted colours is like... well you saw what happened
Teeth of Uranus was also very gorgeous and I actually preferred it aesthetically because very stark, empty space levels that emphasize the sense of isolation really do it for me. But the fact the author just jammed two Dragon Coins at the end makes it look like they ran out of time, which is a shame. From what I saw in the video the positions of the other dagadons looked close to being fair insofar as they generally had some form of indication, but I imagine that if raocow had tried going for them he probably still would've fell into a bunch of pits.
Teeth of Uranus was also very gorgeous and I actually preferred it aesthetically because very stark, empty space levels that emphasize the sense of isolation really do it for me. But the fact the author just jammed two Dragon Coins at the end makes it look like they ran out of time, which is a shame. From what I saw in the video the positions of the other dagadons looked close to being fair insofar as they generally had some form of indication, but I imagine that if raocow had tried going for them he probably still would've fell into a bunch of pits.
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- One of the tougher lines in picross
89th, HOUSE OF HOLES, by Sockbat Replica
48.50/100.00 points
Scores:
88th, Altair, by Tweyxx
49.00/100.00 points
Scores:
87th, Dents d'Ouranus, by Cote de Boeuf
49.25/100.00 points
Scores:
Judge opinions of Altair are kind of different than you might expect for a level that looks like it does, but there comes a point where VLDC-style graphical manipulation goes too far, and I think this level shows it. There's just too many unnecessary details obscuring the critical pieces of level design. I understand it's going for a ethereal atmosphere and storytelling, but that peacefulness the music and graphics are trying to evoke don't work when mixed in with so many spikes. I've always felt that spikes are a really cheap way to add difficulty, especially when they are the primary way of dealing damage to a player in a level. Spikes just mean you can't jump or move somewhere. There's little tactical value to them, since it's not like a Koopa where you have to actively dodge their movements or time a jump onto them. Spikes are just there to do damage, and that's about it.
48.50/100.00 points
Scores:
49.00/100.00 points
Scores:
49.25/100.00 points
Scores:
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- One of the tougher lines in picross
Separate post if that's allowed to give raocow his next One More Level warning! It will still be a few days before then but I want to give it ahead of time. You'll probably be tempted to do all three of the levels that are tied for 80th place in one video but that's big mistake! "Mountan Castle" should absolutely not be played as a One More Level, and will likely be its own long recording. You have been warned. I'll make another reminder the day before you hit the 80th places.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- One of the tougher lines in picross
it's fine, I can tell what level it is by virtue of the level's author. Off camera I noticed the author and I was all 'oh he made a level for this huh'
the chillaxest of dragons
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- One of the tougher lines in picross
to be fair, that author also made a vldcx level that was one screen and was just jumping on a glitched wiggler to a goal.
if you played that first, oh you would've been so fucked thinking you were safe with his vldc11.
if you played that first, oh you would've been so fucked thinking you were safe with his vldc11.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- One of the tougher lines in picross
are ga deneb altair vega
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest 11 -- One of the tougher lines in picross
Oh nice! Seems we've officially entered into the section of the contest I like to call "I don't understand the placement". This will continue till about 10th place.
That said, kudos to the judges for making these hard decisions because coming up with a ranked list of all these levels must have taken a supernaturally critical eye. It's been pointed out before, but these scores from the results show what I'm talking about:
That said, kudos to the judges for making these hard decisions because coming up with a ranked list of all these levels must have taken a supernaturally critical eye. It's been pointed out before, but these scores from the results show what I'm talking about:
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