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La-Mulana - Wishbringer

this is the place where lps are being talked about. it's important to talk about games being played on the internet.
Leylite
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Re: La-Mulana - The Worm in Paradise

Postby Leylite » 7 months ago

I'm assuming it was to help put the player in the right frame of mind that the level is Serious, and to discourage trial and error in favor of actual careful searching and logic.

Anybody who makes it into Eden now will definitely have worked hard to get into there, instead of just climbing a ladder for exploration.

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Draexzhan
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Re: La-Mulana - The Worm in Paradise

Postby Draexzhan » 7 months ago

Sebby19 wrote: I wonder (of the wonder) why they decided to add all the Eden stuff (lock away Gate of Illusion behind a puzzle). I know some of you have said that the transition is extremely memorable.
But in my opinion, I don't think Confusion Gate needed any help in that department.
I think it primarily stems from the fact that the Gate of Illusion is a significant step up in difficulty from earlier parts of the game. NIGORO probably felt that having a "boss puzzle", for lack of a better term, to get into the Gate of Illusion, was sensible.

That, combined with the fact that the Gate of Illusion is all about tricking the player, pretty much spells out the concept of the Eden bait-and-switch.

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Chirei
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Re: La-Mulana - The Worm in Paradise

Postby Chirei » 7 months ago

Sebby19 wrote: I wonder (of the wonder) why they decided to add all the Eden stuff (lock away Gate of Illusion behind a puzzle). I know some of you have said that the transition is extremely memorable.
But in my opinion, I don't think Confusion Gate needed any help in that department.
It makes sense, because Michael Jackson acts as the final defense against the surface world dwellers and Eden, and the truth hidden under it. The final sacrifice of the king of pop.

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Cyril
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Re: La-Mulana - Slouching Towards Bedlam

Postby Cyril » 7 months ago

SCREEN SCREAMIN'

a tragedy is that raocow getting the gauntlets seems to have made him (rightly) abandon the knife, and his wild whip swinging would have accidentally solved the fool puzzle had he used the knife instead

i've honestly never played a video game in my life

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Draexzhan
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Re: La-Mulana - Slouching Towards Bedlam

Postby Draexzhan » 7 months ago

Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool.

This message was brought to you by the Gate of Illusion.

Today's Holy Grail shenanigans were incredibly frustrating for me to watch, for two reasons: One: raocow neglected to notice a key detail. Two: I did too when I first played this game. >_<
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Re: La-Mulana - Slouching Towards Bedlam

Postby FPzero » 7 months ago

No matter how deflated you sounded at the end of the video, the fact remains that you picked up 4 important items today. The backside warping software is super important, the Life Seal is important, and the Crucifix and Gauntlet are both tremendous quality of life upgrades. The Gate of Illusion is very confusing by design and the puzzles in here are not as easy to decipher as others have been. The puzzle to access it in the Temple of Moonlight is a good metric for the depth of thought required to get through it. But believe me, solving the Gate of Illusion will feel really good once you finally do.

As for how to backside warp, you're thinking it's not as simple as you thought, but I'd say it's actually much simpler than you're making it out to be.

Explanation if you can't figure it out:

Press Down on the warp screen


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BobisOnlyBob
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Re: La-Mulana - Slouching Towards Bedlam

Postby BobisOnlyBob » 7 months ago

TO ACCESS THE BACKSIDE, FIRST REMOVE THY HEAD FROM ONE'S OWN--!!

I shouldn't get so worked up I know but aaaaaaahghghghg

I am actively chewing a sweater in frustration
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Stink Terios
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Re: La-Mulana - Slouching Towards Bedlam

Postby Stink Terios » 7 months ago

This is it, the ultimate raocow moment.

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Re: La-Mulana - Slouching Towards Bedlam

Postby CrappyBlueLuigi » 7 months ago

wow yeah raocow, i'm not gonna say the backside-warp issue's solution is so obvious that there's no reason you should've missed it--because i think the fact that you missed it is evidence enough that it's easy for at least some to miss mid-gameplay--but hopefully all the folks going "i screamed at my screen so hard today" helps get across that it's a super small and easily-solved thing.

here's my obligatory non-spoilery hint that i'll still make possibly for you not to read if you don't want to:

you jumped to the wrong conclusion the moment you installed the software



all things considered, there's very little chance we're gonna see tomorrow's video start up with anything other than raocow figuring out the warp stuff

EDIT: ah
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BobisOnlyBob
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Re: La-Mulana - Slouching Towards Bedlam

Postby BobisOnlyBob » 7 months ago

Oh my god

The video:
Thank you
BOB is an acronym for BOB is Only BOB etc.

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Cyril
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Re: La-Mulana - Slouching Towards Bedlam

Postby Cyril » 7 months ago

look.
i've honestly never played a video game in my life

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Chirei
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Re: La-Mulana - Slouching Towards Bedlam

Postby Chirei » 7 months ago

Gauntlet is very strong. It also makes the Axe even better.

Crucifix also for some reason only works against the pepsi spirits. Did jesus hate pepsi or something

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Grounder
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Re: La-Mulana - Slouching Towards Bedlam

Postby Grounder » 7 months ago

Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Re: La-Mulana - Slouching Towards Bedlam

Postby Cyril » 7 months ago

Chirei wrote: Gauntlet is very strong. It also makes the Axe even better.

Crucifix also for some reason only works against the pepsi spirits. Did jesus hate pepsi or something
jesus is the final boss of pepsiman
i've honestly never played a video game in my life

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FPzero
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Re: La-Mulana - Slouching Towards Bedlam

Postby FPzero » 7 months ago

Video game success story right here.

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Re: La-Mulana - Slouching Towards Bedlam

Postby Tenlade » 7 months ago

BobisOnlyBob wrote: Oh my god

The video:
Thank you
Oh good I was worried i was going to spend the next video cringing
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Kleetus
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Re: La-Mulana - Slouching Towards Bedlam

Postby Kleetus » 7 months ago

Draexzhan wrote: Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool. Thou art a fool.

This message was brought to you by the Gate of Illusion.
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AweStriker
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Re: La-Mulana - Slouching Towards Bedlam

Postby AweStriker » 7 months ago

I can't even say raocow's assumption that you needed Mirai unequipped to teleport to the back is unfounded. That's exactly how it worked in the original; you teleported to the back with the appropriate ROM combo and to the front without it.

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maou shoujo
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Re: La-Mulana - Slouching Towards Bedlam

Postby maou shoujo » 7 months ago

AweStriker wrote: I can't even say raocow's assumption that you needed Mirai unequipped to teleport to the back is unfounded. That's exactly how it worked in the original; you teleported to the back with the appropriate ROM combo and to the front without it.
Yup. The way it worked is that the teleporter didn't have a fancy UI; you opened the inventory and used the FUNCTION KEYS to pick a place. Press F3, go to Temple of the Sun, or with a ROM combo go to Temple of the Moon. Definitely made you learn which areas correspond to which numbers.

Remake was made to be released on consoles, originally WiiWare and later PC and Vita. Thus, some of the interface elements that relied on a keyboard were simplified or given in-game UIs.
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FPzero
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Re: La-Mulana - Slouching Towards Bedlam

Postby FPzero » 7 months ago

Yeah the original game used nearly every main key on the keyboard. Backside warping was also a combination of two random roms you found in the ruins and there wasn't any clear indicator how it worked. Remake is definitely the definitive way to play the game these days, but Classic is still worth looking into just to see what sort of changes were made. I remember all the quality of life changes in Remake being so nice as someone who played the original a bunch.

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Sebby19
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Re: La-Mulana - Slouching Towards Bedlam

Postby Sebby19 » 7 months ago

maou shoujo wrote: Yup. The way it worked is that the teleporter didn't have a fancy UI; you opened the inventory and used the FUNCTION KEYS to pick a place. Press F3, go to Temple of the Sun, or with a ROM combo go to Temple of the Moon. Definitely made you learn which areas correspond to which numbers.
Wrong, it was simply the number keys, 0 to 9. Zero was the Surface, Guidance Gate was one, etc.


It's okay to feel bad about the confusion with the warp menu. I didn't initially see the down arrow until the 3rd time you brought up the menu. Perhaps it would have been better if there was an UP arrow instead?

Speaking of missing things where you should've pressed down, there was also something extremely obvious, and on screen, that you missed, while fumbling with the warp menu.
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maou shoujo
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Re: La-Mulana - Slouching Towards Bedlam

Postby maou shoujo » 7 months ago

FPzero wrote: Yeah the original game used nearly every main key on the keyboard. Backside warping was also a combination of two random roms you found in the ruins and there wasn't any clear indicator how it worked. Remake is definitely the definitive way to play the game these days, but Classic is still worth looking into just to see what sort of changes were made. I remember all the quality of life changes in Remake being so nice as someone who played the original a bunch.
It's also neat to go back and look at Classic to see just how much more visually sparse it is. Yes, Classic is deliberately emulating the style and limitations of the MSX, and that's a massive accomplishment in itself. But Remake is more than just redrawing those, it's a total visual redesign. TONS of added background details, one-off art assets that help make puzzles more distinct, and little incidental animations that make it much more readable for a modern audience.

For instance, the Crucifix room, instead of having three torches to light, was a kill room with three of the myrmicoleons (antlions) up there. Classic had more kill rooms than Remake does; Remake converted some of them into environmental puzzles, and made others more distinct like the giant red skeletons also in the Guidance Gate.

Edit: Again, those red skeletons are only used in that one room! Probably 90% of the game's structure is the same as Classic, but the changed portion is generally a bit more open in where you can go, and there are many more details in the game's world now. It's REALLY cool to see from a Games as Art perspective.
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Sebby19
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Re: La-Mulana - Slouching Towards Bedlam

Postby Sebby19 » 7 months ago

A good summary of the changes that I read (I think Tvtropes?) was that the developers removed the fake difficulty, and increased the actual difficulty for the remake.

For example, Classic's spikes and other traps used to do a fixed amount damage. Even with as much health as rao has now, falling into spikes would just be a minor annoyance, barely doing scratch damage.

Now, spikes (and retribution lightning?) does a percentage of your max health.
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Chirei
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Re: La-Mulana - Slouching Towards Bedlam

Postby Chirei » 7 months ago

Sebby19 wrote: Now, spikes (and retribution lightning?) does a percentage of your max health.
I think punishment lightning might be area-dependent. If I get punished in the Gate of Guidance, it's not too big a deal, but getting punished in a near endgame area will do like 100+ damage.

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Alice
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Re: La-Mulana - Slouching Towards Bedlam

Postby Alice » 7 months ago

Oh boy, that was the most painful video to watch so far. At least it was partially alleviated by the follow up though. Now for raocow to learn that the Gate of Illusion is going to totally stump him unless he starts taking the puzzles in the game a lot more seriously. (Or the depressingly more likely alternative that he just bashes his face against everything and accidentally solves the field while learning nothing thus making the entire latter half of the game painful for both himself and viewers.)


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