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VLDC9 - vanilla level design contest 9

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Re: VLDC9 - venerable laborious developer commemorated 9

Post by 10204307 »

Zephyr_DragonLord wrote:
Ivy wrote:How do the dino-rhinos work? Are they cold-blooded? If so they really oughtn't be out in the cold like that.
In this case... the fire within their bodies must keep the Dino-Rhinos warm.
That is how fire-breathing works, yes?
They survive because the fire inside them burns brighter than the ice around them.
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Re: VLDC9 - venerable laborious developer commemorated 9

Post by Le Neveu de Rameau »

10204307 wrote:They survive because the fire inside them burns brighter than the ice around them.
To be fair, I've yet to see a fire that didn't.
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Re: VLDC9 - venerable laborious developer commemorated 9

Post by Koopster »

I actually still didn't have time to finish today's video, but here are the comments:

74th: COLDEST CLIMB by GammaSlap
Nimono
DESIGN: 16/30
CREATIVITY: 14/20
AESTHETICS: 7/10
TOTAL: 37/60
COOL level you got here! Although, there's not much to it, and I'm not sure how the tropical-feeling first half really matches with the ice theme of the rest of the level...

ninja boy
DESIGN: 12/30
CREATIVITY: 10/20
AESTHETICS: 6/10
TOTAL: 28/60
I feel this level would of felt much more unique if it had some graphics to go with it but as it stands it just feels like a normal Nintendo level which isn't a bad thing, just leaves something to be desired.

Eternity
DESIGN: 15/30
CREATIVITY: 13/20
AESTHETICS: 6/10
TOTAL: 34/60
Generic but still nice level. It starts out as a simple grass level, nothing special but still rather fun to play through. The cave section doesn't seem to be as well designed, specially at the kull raft part (where a lot of the non-Blaarg enemies aren't much of a threat), but it gets interesting again at the autoscroll section (other than the bullet generator, which is kind of a cheap way to add difficulty).

Koopster
DESIGN: 15/30
CREATIVITY: 10/20
AESTHETICS: 7/10
TOTAL: 32/60
This level has some weird decisions... what's the point of that shell locked by turn blocks in the first room? Why are there glass blocks scattered through the cave? It's an alright level, but it's kinda like you had three different ideas for a level and decided to do all three into a single entry. Besides the general theme, the gimmick isn't really defined either. You also lose points for the midpoint that doesn't work.

63rd: GREAT ICE RAVINE by eXcavator
Nimono
DESIGN: 11/30
CREATIVITY: 8/20
AESTHETICS: 3/10
TOTAL: 22/60
Asks too much of the player in too short a timeframe. One mistake will quickly kill the player. Needs more leeway

ninja boy
DESIGN: 19/30
CREATIVITY: 17/20
AESTHETICS: 6/10
TOTAL: 42/60
This was a really fun action based level keeping the player constantly moving but also giving plenty of time to react to the on coming obstacles and bonuses.

Eternity
DESIGN: 20/30
CREATIVITY: 14/20
AESTHETICS: 7/10
TOTAL: 41/60
First part of the level had some really great setups with the line guides (the parts with the falling platforms were really interesting, for example). The second half isn't as fun to play, though, specially because it isn't really clear where you actually need to bring a throw block with you, as there's generally somewhere else you can use them.

Koopster
DESIGN: 20/30
CREATIVITY: 14/20
AESTHETICS: 6/10
TOTAL: 40/60
A very well-constructed level. You really did some interesting things with the gimmick you got, but I thought this was sometimes demanding for the wrong reasons. There were some ambushes I couldn't see coming, and a few turn blocks were quite annoying to grab, or hard to predict that I actually needed them further on (mostly on the second half). But otherwise, the difficulty curve was very well thought out.
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Re: VLDC9 - venerable laborious developer commemorated 9

Post by Lockirby2 »

Nimono wrote:I didn't really give much thought to my puzzle since I really had no ideas and I was just about out of time, so sorry if you feel it was the weakest of the 4 ^^;
None of the others stood out to me particularly strongly as being the worst. I just liked Koopster's enough to comment.

The first level was okay, but it felt more like three completely different pieces stuck together than a coherant level. The three parts of the level are still decent though.

I didn't know eXcavator at all, but it sucks to hear about anybody passing away.

I really liked Great Ice Ravine. I didn't really have any problems predicting when I needed to grab blue blocks. You basically need to have one every time you go past a set of them (even if you need to throw one beforehand to defeat a Chuck or something). The switch after the midpoint seems to be a mistake by eXcavator, not his actual intent. If you just cleared the first half of the level, the switch is off, and you have to hit it. However, when you restart from the midpoint, the switch is on, and you can't hit it. I still found this level fun despite the lack of room for error as well, as it kept me on my toes when replaying. It doesn't bother me too much to replay a level a few times to learn the obstacles unless it's boring to play through again. I'd still knock the level a bit for poor communication and one hit KOs, but neither are deal breakers for me. And every individual obstacle felt well designed for sure. It was a really fun platforming level overall.
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Re: VLDC9 - visionary leafage deadly chambers 9

Post by FrozenQuills »

Waterspike Factory really felt like that one Vanilla Fortress in the original SMW, but with a lot more... spikes...
It could have definitely done more I think.

Snowy Bits is a pretty good level. There's a lot of sprite saturation yet it doesn't become too overwhelming, even with the ice physics, which is quite a feat. Second half is pretty fun too with the weird rock structures though it could be a bit hard to parse as to when to jump across.
The platforming also felt like it was Midnight Arbor's sister level lol.
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Re: VLDC9 - visionary leafage deadly chambers 9

Post by Nimono »

FrozenQuills wrote:Snowy Bits is a pretty good level. There's a lot of sprite saturation yet it doesn't become too overwhelming, even with the ice physics, which is quite a feat. Second half is pretty fun too with the weird rock structures though it could be a bit hard to parse as to when to jump across.
The platforming also felt like it was Midnight Arbor's sister level lol.
I would've giggled if it was your level. 'Cause, y'know, FrozenQuills and it's an ice level...
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Re: VLDC9 - visionary leafage deadly chambers 9

Post by SAJewers »

Someone please tell me how the Fog was done in Snow Bits.
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Re: VLDC9 - visionary leafage deadly chambers 9

Post by Zephyr_DragonLord »

I am getting slowly annoyed about unskippable advertisements on Youtube...

Waterspike Factory gets a rating of 7.8/10. There's too many spikes...

In all seriousness, there are issues with this. It does play alright, but spike tunnels grind my gears like few archetypes do. They end up to difficult, too mean, and too tight, more often than not. This balances the difficulty well, but doesn't do too much with the idea of spikes. We've seen how good spike levels could be in the past, so the spikes are not inherently bad. The secret exit is pretty nice, though.

Snowy Bits is really solid, though. The music fits spot-on with the level, which is really nice. The fog fits perfectly, and is rather unintrusive, meaning it only adds to the level, which is not an easy feat... Those gray platforms make for an good challenge, as it presents fair platforming while making the level more dynamic. The layer 2 and 3 action is incredibly unique in the second half, and well executed. Great job there.
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Re: VLDC9 - visionary leafage deadly chambers 9

Post by Koopster »

88th: WATERSPIKE FACTORY by Sayuri
Nimono
DESIGN: 16/30
CREATIVITY: 11/20
AESTHETICS: 5/10
TOTAL: 32/60
Very spiky. Other than that, a very simple level. Though I must say that the trek from key to keyhole is quite tedious...

ninja boy
DESIGN: 12/30
CREATIVITY: 8/20
AESTHETICS: 5/10
TOTAL: 25/60
Well what can I say this level was ok nothing special but pretty good for a water level.

Eternity
DESIGN: 12/30
CREATIVITY: 10/20
AESTHETICS: 6/10
TOTAL: 28/60
I don't think this level works. In fact, the concept of a water level filled with spikes itself doesn't seem that appealing to me - Vanilla Fortress wasn't one of the best SMW levels, and this is almost a more annoying version of it right now. The level's also lacking in obstacles other than regular spikes, faling spikes, fishbones and the occasional moving spike/ball and chain. The secret exit isn't exactly well placed too, mostly involving plain old backtracking.

OTHER: Still want my 2Frost GOLDEN EDITION(TM) SPIKE

Koopster
DESIGN: 13/30
CREATIVITY: 7/20
AESTHETICS: 6/10
TOTAL: 26/60
Ew, spikes are disgusting! This level, in brief, doesn't really do anything. Just casually swim forward and stuff. At least it's not very hard or annoying, so there's that! Also, the secret exit doesn't really add to the level. You can argue it breaks the linearity but backtracking is not very interesting man!

18th: SNOWY BITS by Hinalyte
Nimono
DESIGN: 25/30
CREATIVITY: 17/20
AESTHETICS: 10/10
TOTAL: 52/60
Stressful! There were some tough parts here and there, but overall it was quite nice!

ninja boy
DESIGN: 20/30
CREATIVITY: 16/20
AESTHETICS: 9/10
TOTAL: 45/60
I really liked this level it was creative fun and made good use of the differences between layer 1 and layer 2 scrolling to provide a decent challenge.

Eternity
DESIGN: 24/30
CREATIVITY: 16/20
AESTHETICS: 8/10
TOTAL: 48/60
The moving platforms are used pretty well here. The sprite setups overall are fairly clever, and the level's really fun to play through overall. The layer 2 in the second half didn't really work however, I don't feel it was used well, as each mini-obstacle stayed on the screen for a lot.

Koopster
DESIGN: 22/30
CREATIVITY: 14/20
AESTHETICS: 9/10
TOTAL: 45/60
This level started off pretty swell, but it got pretty tricky pretty quickly. The enemies are really placed in a way they're TRUE obstacles, which is actually appreciable since it feels you went for a short but hard level. I think the length is just fine for the difficulty, though the second half drags on for a lot longer than the first, I feel. My main problem with this were a few obstacles that weren't that predictable, at least for me, like the four koopa column part in the first half. The obstacles in general are built super cleverly though! Also, really nice aesthetical work, though the clouds cut off a bit in the second half, which is super unfortunate!

Oh and idk what's going on with this port, the pitch of everything just gets destroyed after it loops for some reason lol


The music in Snowy Bits always screws up at a specific part and turns up the pitch of everything on my end (and at least on Pyro's as well iirc from her stream), but it didn't seem to happen to you somehow. Except when you died, the sound effect was a bit screwy there.
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Re: VLDC9 - visionary leafage deadly chambers 9

Post by Sugar »

SAJewers wrote:Someone please tell me how the Fog was done in Snow Bits.
Long technical explanation incoming (this isn't sort of a question where you can easily explain what's happening, despite simplicity of a question).

SNES doesn't do alpha transparency, it was too expensive at a time.

However, it did provide ways to approximate it. One of those is pseudo-hires mode, but not too interesting - it essentially did cause SNES to render 512 pixels for each scanline, skipping rendering of every other pixel. This mode was for instance used in Kirby's Dream Land 3. It is not supported by ZSNES (ZSNES is pretty bad, just saying).

Then there were color addition/subtraction modes. SNES renders stuff on two screens (that are distinct from background layers), and you can for instance say that Layer 1 is on sub screen, Layer 2 is on main screen, while sprites are on sub screen too. This is determined by TS and TM properties (also TSW and TMW in windowing area, but that's a different feature). Main screen is drawn over subscreen.
properties.png
properties.png (32.4 KiB) Viewed 4862 times
In Super Mario World, level mode determines SNES register values, such as TM and TS. For instance, level mode 00 renders Layer 2 on sub screen, and everything else on main screen. This effectively causes priority on Layer 2 to be ignored.

Or say, level mode 02 (layer 2 with interaction) has TS set 0, which means nothing is rendered on subscreen, and effectively ordering is determined by priorities and layers.

Why does main screen and sub screen does matter. Well, while main screen pixel is being written, a pixel on subscreen was already determined. This allows main screen to do effects basing on that pixel, done in PPU (Pixel Processing Unit). Such effects are available as CGADSUB effects.

CGADSUB hardware register allows PPU to do color math (addition, addition and halve, subtraction, subtraction and halve) while rendering selected layers on main screen (layers that are affected by color addition are specified in the register). Nocash SNES specs explains CGADSUB bits like that:

Code: Select all

  7    Color Math Add/Subtract        (0=Add; Main+Sub, 1=Subtract; Main-Sub)
  6    Color Math "Div2" Half Result  (0=No divide, 1=Divide result by 2)
  5    Color Math when Main Screen = Backdrop        (0=Off, 1=On) ;\
  4    Color Math when Main Screen = OBJ/Palette4..7 (0=Off, 1=On) ; OFF: Show
  -    Color Math when Main Screen = OBJ/Palette0..3 (Always=Off)  ; Raw Main,
  3    Color Math when Main Screen = BG4             (0=Off, 1=On) ;   or
  2    Color Math when Main Screen = BG3             (0=Off, 1=On) ; ON: Show
  1    Color Math when Main Screen = BG2             (0=Off, 1=On) ; Main+/-Sub
  0    Color Math when Main Screen = BG1             (0=Off, 1=On) ;/
So, what does mode 1E do (so called horizontal translucent level)? Well, let's see.

TS = 0x16 = 0b10110 (sprites, Layer 3, Layer 2)
TM = 0x01 = 0b00001 (Layer 1)
CGADSUB = 0x21 = 0b100001 (Color addition on backdrop and BG1)

Okay, but what does that color addition do?

In short? It adds color together, by all of their parts - red, green and blue. Each color on SNES is 5-bit (to fit in 16-bits). So, if you add rgb(1, 2, 3) to rgb(2, 2, 2) you will get rgb(3, 4, 5) back. There is also additional part that if value overflows 5 bits, the maximum value for a given color is used. This is why you don't use translucent color mode with light background on light ground, as then everything becomes really bright (as all colors are close to white).

This however is not color transparency. Consider what happens if you add black to some color? Well, as it happens, something + rgb(0, 0, 0) = something. So essentially, adding black to a color doesn't change it.

What Snowy Bits did is that it did render itself with CGADSUB enabled on Layer 3 (this is vanilla as far Lunar Magic is concerned). Even Lunar Magic says it's CGADSUB, which is surprisingly technical as far stuff in that editor goes.
cgadsub.png
cgadsub.png (40.42 KiB) Viewed 4862 times
As I mentioned before, CGADSUB is not true transparency. If you add black to a color, you still stay with color you had. Snowy Bits had palette ExAnimation where the mist color fades to black and back.

SNES also has color subtraction mode which subtracts color, and halve mode that divides the result of color math by two (color addition with halve mode is closer to true alpha transparency, and actually what Ghost Houses in Super Mario World did to have transparent ghosts). Also, you may have noticed that backdrop is affected by color addition too in my example. This is because, well, SNES always renders backdrop on main screen (in addition to sub screen). Main screen backdrop is usually black (fun fact: message boxes in Super Mario World actually reuse main screen backdrop color), which means that after color addition is done, it doesn't hide stuff on sub screen. Without backdrop CGADSUB, nothing on sub screen would be visible.
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Re: VLDC9 - visionary leafage deadly chambers 9

Post by S.N.N. »

Random fact about the snowman on the map: it used to appear in a random place anywhere in the ice world whenever you either a) entered the map (via coming out of levels or from a star warp), or b) start-scrolled away from the ice world and scrolled back in. Essentially, it would constantly move around. I believe it caused some issues and this feature was removed, but the cave effect we'll see tomorrow is good enough to make up for it I think.
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Re: VLDC9 - visionary leafage deadly chambers 9

Post by Giant Ninji »

Fun Fact: All Ice levels have spikes and/or munchers.

All of them.
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Re: VLDC9 - visionary leafage deadly chambers 9

Post by Lockirby2 »

Waterspike Factory is the sort of level I would give a low creativity score but an okay design score. Some of the fish/pencils were placed in ways that occasionally made the level feel like more than a tunnel of spikes, but the level still wasn't exciting. I mind backtracking less than the judges do, as long as it feels different going backwards. On a side note, it drove me nuts that raocow refused to swim under any falling spikes. :P

Snowy Bits is a solid level, but I find it less memorable than most of the other levels in the top twenty.
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Re: VLDC9 - visionary leafage deadly chambers 9

Post by Koopster »

S.N.N. wrote:Random fact about the snowman on the map: it used to appear in a random place anywhere in the ice world whenever you either a) entered the map (via coming out of levels or from a star warp), or b) start-scrolled away from the ice world and scrolled back in. Essentially, it would constantly move around. I believe it caused some issues and this feature was removed, but the cave effect we'll see tomorrow is good enough to make up for it I think.
What are you talking about? I just checked and it's still randomised on my end.
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Re: VLDC9 - visionary leafage deadly chambers 9

Post by Sebby19 »

I think back tracking to the secret exit was the right move to make in this case, since you are traversing familiar ground in a new way. And finding the lock first is a good indicator for the player to start making mental notes of the path ahead.

Making a new passage would have led the player into the unknown, and feel less in control.
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Re: VLDC9 - visionary leafage deadly chambers 9

Post by Koopster »

I don't think swimming with a key is as hard as it's being made out to be. Especially in that level, there's enough leeway and space to move around. raocow was just being extremely cautious as he tends to be, but it can be played much more, uh, "rompily".
I cannot agree with that level's choice of backtracking. The level wasn't interesting enough for it, and holding an item ultimately doesn't change things very much.
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Re: VLDC9 - visionary leafage deadly chambers 9

Post by ft029 »

yeah, raocow could have easily sped past all of the falling spikes, with or without a key. It makes the level move by faster.
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Re: VLDC9 - visionary leafage deadly chambers 9

Post by Alice »

ft029 wrote:yeah, raocow could have easily sped past all of the falling spikes, with or without a key. It makes the level move by faster.
That's just a side effect of raocow tending to play very cautiously when it comes to obstacles like that. There were a few instances where he didn't wait though.
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Re: VLDC9 - visionary leafage deadly chambers 9

Post by S.N.N. »

Koopster wrote:What are you talking about? I just checked and it's still randomised on my end.
Huh, you're right. I heard that the effect was being removed a few months ago, and it doesn't look like the snowman has moved at all in raocow's playthrough as of yet (unless I missed it). Cool, I'm happy to be wrong about that then. It's a neat effect.
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Re: VLDC9 - visionary leafage deadly chambers 9

Post by Ryrir »

just fyi - you didn't have to bounce on the thwimp to get to the ceiling, if you'd brought the p-switch there would have been invisible platforms. You were right that you can't make the jump back out of the water once you've fallen to the midpoint, but if you're in ice mode the water is frozen, so yeah

pretty good level though
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Re: VLDC9 - varying landmasses dried components 9

Post by FrozenQuills »

Dry Ice is a fun level. I like how the level is divided into normal slippery portions and layer 2 sections, and it made for some simple but interesting puzzles. The secret exit is also pretty exciting.
Also, the author, MegaMarioMan9, is the same guy who made Somber Sepia in VLDC8, so it's neat seeing him get a high placement this year.
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Re: VLDC9 - varying landmasses dried components 9

Post by Classtoise »

FrozenQuills wrote:Dry Ice is a fun level. I like how the level is divided into normal slippery portions and layer 2 sections, and it made for some simple but interesting puzzles. The secret exit is also pretty exciting.
Also, the author, MegaMarioMan9, is the same guy who made Somber Sepia in VLDC8, so it's neat seeing him get a high placement this year.
Yeah it's pretty neat. My issue is just that it's unclear how to get the secret exit. Apparently you use a P Switch.

Overall a nice fun little level though.

Also my birthday level
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Re: VLDC9 - varying landmasses dried components 9

Post by Ashan »

Whenever I see all these crazy map tricks on the overworld of this game I think back to how in ASMT they just wanted to get different music to play on different areas of the map but nobody could get it working so they just gave up.
Then you have the SMWC guys here with more technology to implement these things than they have ideas.
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Re: VLDC9 - varying landmasses dried components 9

Post by Koopster »

23rd: DRY ICE by MegaMarioMan9
Nimono
DESIGN: 23/30
CREATIVITY: 17/20
AESTHETICS: 8/10
TOTAL: 48/60
Nice gimmick, quite fun, but the secret exit path was...not so good. Using the P-Switch really isn't going to be on the player's mind for getting out of the hole given the puzzle-based nature of the level going forward; their first thought will actually be the Springboard.

ninja boy
DESIGN: 16/30
CREATIVITY: 15/20
AESTHETICS: 6/10
TOTAL: 37/60
This was a fun little level with the switching back and forth the different temperatures, nothing to fancy but it was done well.

Eternity
DESIGN: 20/30
CREATIVITY: 16/20
AESTHETICS: 8/10
TOTAL: 44/60
It's really hard to find a level that does a "freeze -> unfreeze" gimmick right, specially if vanilla, but this level manages to do some pretty interesting things with the gimmick. The moving layer 2 adds a lot to it, and the enemy placement is fairly good though, even if a few sections feel a bit empty.

Koopster
DESIGN: 27/30
CREATIVITY: 16/20
AESTHETICS: 7/10
TOTAL: 50/60
(n)ice! No really I enjoyed this a lot. It's a so simple concept that has been used so many times, but seeing it be pulled off this well is always great. The puzzles are really cohesive and intuitive, which is always essential for levels like this to be fun. The graphics could stand to be a bit more detailed, but that doesn't take out much from the experience.


Really like this one, but the secret exit is not very well indicated. The P-switch creates a path so you can go up there.
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Re: VLDC9 - varying landmasses dried components 9

Post by S.N.N. »

Ashan wrote:Whenever I see all these crazy map tricks on the overworld of this game I think back to how in ASMT they just wanted to get different music to play on different areas of the map but nobody could get it working so they just gave up.
Then you have the SMWC guys here with more technology to implement these things than they have ideas.
The story behind the maps is really interesting. There were a group of SMWC'ers in an IRC channel and they were literally like "hey we should enter that contest", and the poured a month straight (seriously, I swear the Dropbox was updated every few minutes) into building it. It kind of started off as a low-scope joke that evolved into.. this. Each time someone brought up an idea, it would get implemented without question. The level of devotion was super impressive to me.

That being said, I'm really excited to see the rest of them get played. As I mentioned earlier, the map with the Famicom icon is likely the best I have ever seen in a SMW hack, to the point where I'll sometimes open the ROM and just sit on it for a few minutes.

Today's level: it slipped my mind that this was the Somber Sepia guy. He's definitely improved dramatically since last year.
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