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VLDC9 - vanilla level design contest 9

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Re: VLDC9 - vicious letters drifting capriciously 9

Postby ft029 » 2 years ago

OK, I just found that Autoscroll Special-4 creates that moving down effect. Neato.
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Re: VLDC9 - vicious letters drifting capriciously 9

Postby Divemissile » 2 years ago

"there's nothing on the other side," raocow 2017

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Re: VLDC9 - vicious letters drifting capriciously 9

Postby Jesuiscontent » 2 years ago

Koopster wrote: I think nobody mentioned this clearly yet: the silence before the wacky sounds in the Touhou song in the second half was a FUCK YOU scream, but SomeGuy was pissed about it and Medic spent two hours hex editing that sample out of the ROM (AddmusicK is unusable unless the ROM gets ported over, which explains some missing songs having just been replaced).
You should have got Someguy to edit it himself instead
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Re: VLDC9 - vegetative linings draping cathedrals 9

Postby FrozenQuills » 2 years ago

The green switch palace has the best puzzle, though I think it has the hardest to understand bonus room hahah.

I'm with Koopster on Soul's Temple. It's strongest point is the aesthetics, though they sometimes get in the way due to the priority layering. I wasn't fond of some of the design too; there is a blind drop near the beginning, and the boo cloud + normal boos + vines + water isn't a very good combination of elements since it gets very crowded and unfair at times. If you don't make it the first time through you might die a lot.

Also that boo fight isn't really a fight if you can stay safe in one area and not really have to do anything lol.
Last edited by FrozenQuills on 10 Jan 2017, 14:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VLDC9 - vicious letters drifting capriciously 9

Postby xfix » 2 years ago

Jesuiscontent wrote:
Koopster wrote: I think nobody mentioned this clearly yet: the silence before the wacky sounds in the Touhou song in the second half was a FUCK YOU scream, but SomeGuy was pissed about it and Medic spent two hours hex editing that sample out of the ROM (AddmusicK is unusable unless the ROM gets ported over, which explains some missing songs having just been replaced).
You should have got Someguy to edit it himself instead
That probably would end up with Someguy replacing level completely with just a goal sphere and key and keyhole.

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Re: VLDC9 - vegetative linings draping cathedrals 9

Postby S.N.N. » 2 years ago

The music in the switch palace(s) is VLDC7's abstract map theme, and the music in Soul's Temple is VLDC8's forest map theme. It's like a map music throwback fiesta! Also, someone in the comments recommended hitting the green switch again just to check out the effect. It's quite cool, so I'd definitely recommend it as well.

Looking forward to the ice world - there's some really interesting levels, and the map has a pretty wicked effect.

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Re: VLDC9 - vegetative linings draping cathedrals 9

Postby 10204307 » 2 years ago

It's neat how a lot of the VLDC overworld tunes work pretty well as level music, too.

VLDC9's ice world theme is pretty neat... Although some parts of it sound weirdly similar to Lusamine's leitmotif from Pokemon Sun/Moon.

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Re: VLDC9 - vegetative linings draping cathedrals 9

Postby Koopster » 2 years ago

36th: SOUL'S TEMPLE by PokerFace
PENALTY REASONING: -2, author leak
Nimono
DESIGN: 26/30
CREATIVITY: 18/20
AESTHETICS: 10/10
TOTAL: 54/60
Fun level, but the Boo Cloud in the second half was very challenging to get through. The vines have a habit of switching which direction Mario's considered to be facing without easily being able to tell which way, making it tough to wait out the cloud for an opportunity to move without getting hit by the Boos...

ninja boy
DESIGN: 17/30
CREATIVITY: 16/20
AESTHETICS: 9/10
TOTAL: 42/60
Even though this level was a little cramped it was fun and well put together including the section with the boo cloud that made it fairly impossible to break it by trapping the player every time it appeared.

Eternity
DESIGN: 17/30
CREATIVITY: 17/20
AESTHETICS: 9/10
TOTAL: 43/60
This would be a lot more enjoyable if there was more space for the player to move - it's definitely too cluttered right now. Some of the sprites are placed in really annoying ways as well, specially the Big Boos, and usually they pretty much force the player repeatedly to go back -> spinjump over. The boo rings also don't add a lot to the level (other than unnecessary waiting), unfortunately - it's specially bad at the boss. Other than that, it's nicely designed and aesthetically it's great.

OTHER: uh, putting your name on the title screen kinda ruins the "anonymous judging" part of the contest :v (3)

Koopster
DESIGN: 14/30
CREATIVITY: 11/20
AESTHETICS: 8/10
TOTAL: 33/60
This level looks really interesting around the beginning where it transits from an open area to an inner part of the temple - why did you just do that once in the level! D: I'm not a big fan of the level overall otherwise, as it looks really busy and the gameplay is really cramped (tight corridors with pretty spacey enemies, also the reappearing ghosts room definitely doesn't help). Sprites behind priority also turned out to be a problem in a few areas. It's also unfortunate how, for all the potential it had, it's just a "romp" - doesn't do anything inovative :c


Use reappearing ghosts in your level at all and it becomes worse. Seriously, that's the one generator I can't think of how to make a fun level out of. It's just... tedious.
Also glad people seem to have enjoyed my switch palace, and yes the bonus is just stupid lol. You're supposed to grab the blue shell and fly with the red yoshi to stomp the koopas, a feat that I barely can do myself. Not sure what I was thinking there.
Credits to Eternity for the switch palace aesthetic!
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Re: VLDC9 - vegetative linings draping cathedrals 9

Postby 10204307 » 2 years ago

In the original SMW, the boo generator was only used in one level, which also happened to be an underwater level... A lot of people seem to forget that when they use it in their levels.

In my opinion, most sprite generators (aside from singular Bullet Bill and Torpedo Ted generators) are to be avoided under most circumstances. Randomness isn't a good substitute for smart level design.

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Re: VLDC9 - vegetative linings draping cathedrals 9

Postby Nimono » 2 years ago

10204307 wrote:In my opinion, most sprite generators (aside from singular Bullet Bill and Torpedo Ted generators) are to be avoided under most circumstances. Randomness isn't a good substitute for smart level design.
Torpedo Ted.

Oh man.

You're gonna love my level. :3

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Re: VLDC9 - vegetative linings draping cathedrals 9

Postby Divemissile » 2 years ago

10204307 wrote:In the original SMW, the boo generator was only used in one level, which also happened to be an underwater level... A lot of people seem to forget that when they use it in their levels.
isn't the point of making a rom hack to put existing obstacles in new ways never seen in the original game? though i'll agree, it doesn't work as well on land and not underwater.

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Re: VLDC9 - vegetative linings draping cathedrals 9

Postby 10204307 » 2 years ago

The boo generator is really something that only works underwater, which is why it wasn't completely annoying in the original game. Out of water, the boo generator basically just means you can't move half of the time, because it's a lot harder to jump around the boos than it is to swim around them, and it's also harder to avoid getting telefragged by them when they appear on top of you.

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Re: VLDC9 - vegetative linings draping cathedrals 9

Postby Lockirby2 » 2 years ago

I agree with Nimono that the vines don't play too nicely with the standard Boos, especially because it requires some mental attention to see them in the Boo Cloud. I don't mind the Boo generator as much as bullet generators (the offscreen ones, marked cannons are fine). I think the reason why generators worked better in vanilla is because they pretty much *are* the levels they are in. Because the Boo Cloud is the innovative part of the Sunken Ghost Ship's insides, Nintendo's original level feels like it has content when new players play it, even though the rest of the room is literally just a box of water. But if we do that, we're just lazy, and if we do too much else, things can get too hectic.

The Green Switch Palace is my favourite of the four. It's a nice, compact little puzzle. Though I'm surprised the Yoshis used aren't the colour of their respective Switch Palaces.

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Re: VLDC9 - vegetative linings draping cathedrals 9

Postby Nimono » 2 years ago

Lockirby2 wrote:I agree with Nimono that the vines don't play too nicely with the standard Boos, especially because it requires some mental attention to see them in the Boo Cloud. I don't mind the Boo generator as much as bullet generators (the offscreen ones, marked cannons are fine). I think the reason why generators worked better in vanilla is because they pretty much *are* the levels they are in. Because the Boo Cloud is the innovative part of the Sunken Ghost Ship's insides, Nintendo's original level feels like it has content when new players play it, even though the rest of the room is literally just a box of water. But if we do that, we're just lazy, and if we do too much else, things can get too hectic.

The Green Switch Palace is my favourite of the four. It's a nice, compact little puzzle. Though I'm surprised the Yoshis used aren't the colour of their respective Switch Palaces.
I didn't really give much thought to my puzzle since I really had no ideas and I was just about out of time, so sorry if you feel it was the weakest of the 4 ^^;

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Re: VLDC9 - vegetative linings draping cathedrals 9

Postby jayScribble » 2 years ago

Did not expect the backstory of the second level in today's video be sad, despite the minor flaws it had (particularly the Charlie breaking the blue blocks on the second half). : (
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Re: VLDC9 - venerable laborious developer commemorated 9

Postby FrozenQuills » 2 years ago

Coldest Climb was a kinda-all-over-the-place kinda level, and its biggest crime is the broken midpoint, but it's an okay ice level overall going past that.

I did not know eXcavator well, but I liked the concepts behind his VLDC levels (both in VLDC8 and VLDC9). He made some pretty hard levels that could use more guidance, but each of his obstacles presented something different and creative which is really neat. I also liked the palette choices in Great Ice Ravine.

Rest in peace dude. Passing away at 20 is way too soon.
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Re: VLDC9 - venerable laborious developer commemorated 9

Postby zagesaw » 2 years ago

Coldest Climb was a lot more annoying than it should have been thanks to the broken midpoint. Having an autoscroller with a bullet bill generator and ice physics that far into a level made it a chore to play. Glad raocow didn't suffer through that section. I actually died a few times near the end of that level and it was not fun. 70s seems about right.

Great Ice Ravine took me by surprise with its difficulty. It's a really nice level but it's far more demanding than what I was expecting, from what I played in this collab up to that point. It asks so much from you to that first midpoint, and I also struggle with throw blocks. It was a really nice level and fun to play once you can overcome the difficulty of it. The placement seems a bit too harsh. I'd rank it at least 20 placements higher than what it got. Sad to hear about what happened to the author though. 20 is just too young. :(

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Re: VLDC9 - venerable laborious developer commemorated 9

Postby Zephyr_DragonLord » 2 years ago

First of all, stuff I missed. Both the Green Switch Palace and Soul' Temple were pretty nice, with the latter having a great atmosphere, going from outdoors to indoors seamlessly. But it's a little difficult to make a challenging Big Boo fight that can't be trivialized. I appreciate the attempt, though. The Green Switch was a good puzzle.

Coldest Climb was a nice level, though it doesn't do terribly much that's special, and the ending part overstays its welcome a tad. But it plays well. Good job.

And then... Great Ice Ravine. It feels strangely hard to say goodbye to someone who just leaves us... without us even knowing them. And especially with a level. Rest in peace, eXcavator. Know that we of the talkhaus also care for you.

...Ice worlds are always the saddest ones to me, as well. Maybe it's just my personal experience with them.

As for the level itself, the music brings me right back to Drama Mistery, and the design also reminds me of JUMP. It's a rough level to complete, with those platforms being rather finicky, but the rest of the level is purely based on reactions. I like it... though I might not have the best of times playing through it. Anyways, thank you for your contribution. See this as bringing frozen flowers to your resting place....
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Re: VLDC9 - venerable laborious developer commemorated 9

Postby Nimono » 2 years ago

zagesaw wrote:Great Ice Ravine took me by surprise with its difficulty. It's a really nice level but it's far more demanding than what I was expecting, from what I played in this collab up to that point. It asks so much from you to that first midpoint, and I also struggle with throw blocks. It was a really nice level and fun to play once you can overcome the difficulty of it. The placement seems a bit too harsh. I'd rank it at least 20 placements higher than what it got. Sad to hear about what happened to the author though. 20 is just too young. :(
I rated it what I did for the reasons you saw with raocow in the video- it's just too demanding. You need to KNOW what's coming up at each point to be able to properly react to it- failure to react in time is death, either by hitting an enemy, missing your platform, or the platform going into the abyss. There's too much punishment for not knowing what lies ahead, when you're not supposed to know beforehand what lies ahead.


also, seeing this level makes me feel like it's the day we learned he died all over again. i want to go cry now :c

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Re: VLDC9 - venerable laborious developer commemorated 9

Postby Ivy » 2 years ago

How do the dino-rhinos work? Are they cold-blooded? If so they really oughtn't be out in the cold like that.
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Re: VLDC9 - venerable laborious developer commemorated 9

Postby Zephyr_DragonLord » 2 years ago

Ivy wrote:How do the dino-rhinos work? Are they cold-blooded? If so they really oughtn't be out in the cold like that.
In this case... the fire within their bodies must keep the Dino-Rhinos warm.
That is how fire-breathing works, yes?
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Re: VLDC9 - venerable laborious developer commemorated 9

Postby raocow » 2 years ago

yes, rhino-dinos are actually hollow with a fire that burns inside them
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Re: VLDC9 - venerable laborious developer commemorated 9

Postby xfix » 2 years ago

:(

Anyway, I find it interesting that Monty Moles in COLDEST CLIMB used their Yoshi's Island submap speeds, despite this being overworld map. Good job, whoever worked on this game.

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Re: VLDC9 - venerable laborious developer commemorated 9

Postby Pyro » 2 years ago

Great Ice Ravine gives me serious Burnt Mountain Tango vibes for some reason. Feels like the same type of difficulty.

Also...rest in peace, eXcavator. I didn't know him but it's always awful when someone on the internet passes away like that.
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Re: VLDC9 - venerable laborious developer commemorated 9

Postby nathanisbored » 2 years ago

the main thing that makes kicking throw blocks feel different than kicking shells is that you have to be holding forward to kick a throw block, but not to kick a shell. in other words, if you release Y with neutral d-pad with a throw block, mario just drops it in front of him. with a shell, he'll kick it no matter what, unless you explicitly hold down when you release it. since spinning items' speeds are based on mario's speed, this means you usually have a tendency to need to left-right a bit before kicking a throw block, in order to reduce its speed, and to make sure youre holding forward in the spot you wanted to kick it from, which might make it feel more awkward. also if you really want a throw block to go minimum speed, you can kick it from the ground rather than from mario's hands, since then it always defaults to minimum speed, which is 46 subpixels per frame, slower than mario's max sprinting speed of 47.8, or 48.3 on slippery floor (like in this level).


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