MaGL 3 results: moral of the story: laziness always prevails
- Divemissile
- Posts: 269
- Joined: 9 years ago
Re: MaGL 3 results: meow
what is it with people in this contest having pretty good first levels? my first level was a crappy cave level with tides and lava. maybe i was just dumb but i'm jealous of these lunar magic prodigies
- FrozenQuills
- hehe haha 2024
- Posts: 843
- Joined: 9 years ago
- Location: my skull
Re: MaGL 3 results: meow
To be fair, several of them (Enjl, TaviTurnip) have experience in SMBX level design, while others have studied a lot of good levels beforehand I guess.Divemissile wrote:what is it with people in this contest having pretty good first levels? my first level was a crappy cave level with tides and lava. maybe i was just dumb but i'm jealous of these lunar magic prodigies
avatar by crayonchewer!
Re: MaGL 3 results: meow
you know raocow I've never seen a tie-dye shirt that was just one solid colour before. ;)
- TaviTurnip
- Reach for the top
- Abministrator
- Posts: 1077
- Joined: 14 years ago
- First name: Rena
- Location: Winter
Re: MaGL 3 results: meow
To be fairer, my MaGL X2 entry was my first complete SMBx level out of just two attempts. At the risk of bragging in some way, I'm not some kind of prodigy. I'm not a level designer and I never have been. I just have common sense and know how to use a computer and I still don't know why this is enough to be in the top half, generally speaking. I don't consider it an accomplishment to know how to complete a structure and make some landmasses not a flat plain. All I did was build a level and put effort into it. Lunar Magic or SMBx or Game Maker doesn't matter.FrozenQuills wrote:To be fair, several of them (Enjl, TaviTurnip) have experience in SMBX level design, while others have studied a lot of good levels beforehand I guess.Divemissile wrote:what is it with people in this contest having pretty good first levels? my first level was a crappy cave level with tides and lava. maybe i was just dumb but i'm jealous of these lunar magic prodigies
I had so many shortcomings this time around because I had too much real life to deal with and wasn't able to focus on my actual level ideas, and the concepts I did get in were weak due to lack of focus (and a critical error in adding the bonus gimmick as a main obstacle by accident) and I couldn't really get them together. I just refused to go without submitting something in the end, and as I've said I phoned in the last like 75% of the level and that's why I'm not really defensive about it. It's the skeleton of a cute idea that could be complete and awesome if my heart wasn't miserable all year.
I regularly stream on Twitch! with other members of the talkhaus. Come watch Monday, Tuesday and Friday at 2PM for blind playthroughs and Pokémon and Touhou and stuff. Come hang out with us!
- Reecer7
- Crack is fun and nice and a good time!
- Posts: 449
- Joined: 8 years ago
- Pronouns: he/him/his
- https://cro-iba.talkhaus.com/
Re: MaGL 3 results: first time's the charm
It's getting that time where I stop posting and commenting on levels because 1. it's harder to note good things than bad things, and 2. I'm losing the excitement of a new contest finally being announced, and thus my interest falls like an anvil.
But regardless, I still had something to say about Sasquatch!
"That’s a super nice, charmful level! It’s got a good theme, an onslaught of good custom assets, more-challenging-than-average, continuous level design, and a simple secret exit. I don’t know what else I could ask of from this. Also, I’m a big fan of that overworld tune."
also i'm constantly amazed by how much better someone can be at a video game. it took me over half an hour just to get to one exit here, probably longer.
I have to say, I'm not too impressed by Enjl's level? I mean, I appreciate the Fish Out of Water visual gimmick, but I don't feel like it does anything for me to elevate it beyond a regular level, like The Mario's New Clothes did.
But regardless, I still had something to say about Sasquatch!
"That’s a super nice, charmful level! It’s got a good theme, an onslaught of good custom assets, more-challenging-than-average, continuous level design, and a simple secret exit. I don’t know what else I could ask of from this. Also, I’m a big fan of that overworld tune."
also i'm constantly amazed by how much better someone can be at a video game. it took me over half an hour just to get to one exit here, probably longer.
I have to say, I'm not too impressed by Enjl's level? I mean, I appreciate the Fish Out of Water visual gimmick, but I don't feel like it does anything for me to elevate it beyond a regular level, like The Mario's New Clothes did.
call me reecer6, not reecer7, please! gotta maintain that same internet brand. actually i'm cro-iba now, it's cooler
strange bluebird website (check it out for my art!)
strange bluebird website (check it out for my art!)
Re: MaGL 3 results: first time's the charm
JUDGES' COMMENTS AND SCORES FOR 26th AND 25th PLACE:
26th: Sasquatch
25th: Enjl
26th: Sasquatch
25th: Enjl
-
- Up in the Tower floating above Gensokyo lies the true me in reverse.
- Posts: 450
- Joined: 9 years ago
- Pronouns: he/him/his
- Location: Antarctica
- Contact:
Re: MaGL 3 results: first time's the charm
It is weird to Enjl score 25, even for a first level. It was great to play though.
- Zephyr_DragonLord
- The dragon awakens...!
- Posts: 1047
- Joined: 8 years ago
- First name: Zach
- Location: Somewhere between dreams and dormancy
Re: MaGL 3 results: first time's the charm
...Yeah, I'm kind of slipping here. But I still have stuff to say about these levels.
TaviTurnip's level was good, and looked very nice, but that secret exit and that one jump were kind of tragic. You still did well, though! Those chickens look very nice. Also, nice Undertale reference.
LunarNeedle's was simple and fun. That gimmick was pretty refreshing.
The edits made by Sasquatch's level were great, and being in a relaxing beach is... relaxing. Not terribly much to it other than that, but it didn't need to be.
Enjil's was good as well. (yeah, I'll be saying this every time. Get used to it) Those clouds are a little confusing, but all of the fish and varied challenges make up for it easily. Solid level. Also, is that a good fishing fish guy spoke of in legends?!?
TaviTurnip's level was good, and looked very nice, but that secret exit and that one jump were kind of tragic. You still did well, though! Those chickens look very nice. Also, nice Undertale reference.
LunarNeedle's was simple and fun. That gimmick was pretty refreshing.
The edits made by Sasquatch's level were great, and being in a relaxing beach is... relaxing. Not terribly much to it other than that, but it didn't need to be.
Enjil's was good as well. (yeah, I'll be saying this every time. Get used to it) Those clouds are a little confusing, but all of the fish and varied challenges make up for it easily. Solid level. Also, is that a good fishing fish guy spoke of in legends?!?
I am prone to almost everything... except spontaneous violence.
Any questions, concerns, or aspirations you have with me can go to the PM box... Now here's a quote:
(It was about time)
Any questions, concerns, or aspirations you have with me can go to the PM box... Now here's a quote:
raocow wrote:I know there is a population on Earth. They like to populate. I like to gesticulate. We're friends!
(It was about time)
Re: MaGL 3 results: first time's the charm
IIrc, my method for clearing that jump in TaviTurnip's level was to jump at full speed off the upper ledge, land on the upper solid branch, and then jump the gap. Her level looks very interesting, but would have benefited immensely from for development time.
I was pleasantly surprised with my level scores. Honestly expected to place somewhere in the 40s. I originally intended to draw the Chucks in their underwear, but I wasn't really sure how to draw them without their gear. It's a shame, raocow's reaction would have been fun.
I was pleasantly surprised with my level scores. Honestly expected to place somewhere in the 40s. I originally intended to draw the Chucks in their underwear, but I wasn't really sure how to draw them without their gear. It's a shame, raocow's reaction would have been fun.
- FrozenQuills
- hehe haha 2024
- Posts: 843
- Joined: 9 years ago
- Location: my skull
Re: MaGL 3 results: first time's the charm
Looks like we went from "raocow missing some unmarked secret exits" to "raocow finding secret exits that none of the judges knew about".
I didn't bother getting all of the dragon coins cause I thought the "secret door" it mentions would lead to a bonus easter egg or something. But had the author mention the secret exit in a more direct fashion, I felt like it would hurt the level more than help it, unfortunately.
(I had plenty of other issues about this level which are explained in my judging comments)
I didn't bother getting all of the dragon coins cause I thought the "secret door" it mentions would lead to a bonus easter egg or something. But had the author mention the secret exit in a more direct fashion, I felt like it would hurt the level more than help it, unfortunately.
(I had plenty of other issues about this level which are explained in my judging comments)
avatar by crayonchewer!
- Mata Hari
- Posts: 2522
- Joined: 14 years ago
- https://matahari.talkhaus.com/
Re: MaGL 3 results: first time's the charm
There was a little point on one of the sinking platforms that looks like something you can trip on BUT IT ISNT@
- Le Neveu de Rameau
- I'm a hoobsie roller; I got robots in my life
- Posts: 994
- Joined: 8 years ago
- First name: Rameau's Nephew
- Location: Gettin' gibbly with the business
Re: MaGL 3 results: first time's the charm
Huh, raocow's impression of this level was pretty much the exact opposite of mine. I quite liked the first section be a fun if rompy vertical mountain-climbing section, with a simple but effective vanilla æsthetic and a pleasing autumn palette. The cave, in contrast, looks ooglay, in my opinion--yeah, some of the landforms are nice (though I'm less sure about the pointy bits lying atop flat surface), but the land contours on the interior holes (and abrupt cutoff thereon) looks awkward and the palette in the third section is exceedingly unpleasant (especially the brown in the layer 3 background). On top of that, the level undergoes a huge and jarring difficulty spike in the cave, and suddenly switches from a romp to a much more unforgiving and ambush-based style of level design. I'm surprised raocow had so little trouble with the sinking platforms--having to maintain top speed while still avoiding the bullets gave me considerably more trouble. On the whole, the outdoor and cave sections feel like two completely different levels, and the latter doesn't feel especially thoroughly tested.
- FrozenQuills
- hehe haha 2024
- Posts: 843
- Joined: 9 years ago
- Location: my skull
Re: MaGL 3 results: first time's the charm
This pretty much echoes my sentiments.Le Neveu de Rameau wrote:Huh, raocow's impression of this level was pretty much the exact opposite of mine. I quite liked the first section be a fun if rompy vertical mountain-climbing section, with a simple but effective vanilla æsthetic and a pleasing autumn palette. The cave, in contrast, looks ooglay, in my opinion--yeah, some of the landforms are nice (though I'm less sure about the pointy bits lying atop flat surface), but the land contours on the interior holes (and abrupt cutoff thereon) looks awkward and the palette in the third section is exceedingly unpleasant (especially the brown in the layer 3 background). On top of that, the level undergoes a huge and jarring difficulty spike in the cave, and suddenly switches from a romp to a much more unforgiving and ambush-based style of level design. I'm surprised raocow had so little trouble with the sinking platforms--having to maintain top speed while still avoiding the bullets gave me considerably more trouble. On the whole, the outdoor and cave sections feel like two completely different levels, and the latter doesn't feel especially thoroughly tested.
avatar by crayonchewer!
- raocow
- the death of the incredible huge
- Posts: 4078
- Joined: 15 years ago
- Location: maybe the Wizards are the most complex, and the sales guys are up their daily
- https://raocow.talkhaus.com/
Re: MaGL 3 results: first time's the charm
oh man tomorrow's there's a Judge Favourite TM
the chillaxest of dragons
Re: MaGL 3 results: first time's the charm
Man raocow you gotta stop jumping over the ceiling.
I say this having hid a bonus that can only be accessed by going over the ceiling in my level.
- snoruntpyro
- cutest girl 2023
- Posts: 884
- Joined: 9 years ago
- Pronouns: she/her
- Contact:
Re: MaGL 3 results: first time's the charm
Okay what the fuck if I had known that there was a secret exit my score would have been like a 24 instead of a 36. I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate those kinds of secret exits. They're HORRIBLE. Also in hindsight why did I let those dirt formations slip by in my aesthetics score....?
- Mata Hari
- Posts: 2522
- Joined: 14 years ago
- https://matahari.talkhaus.com/
Re: MaGL 3 results: first time's the charm
OK real talk the fact that none of the judges were curious enough to bother with the dargadons says something about either them or the level, probably both, to varying degrees
Re: MaGL 3 results: first time's the charm
It was enough to even pique raocow's curiosity which is saying something because he's criminally lacking in curiosity at times.Mata Hari wrote:OK real talk the fact that none of the judges were curious enough to bother with the dargadons says something about either them or the level, probably both, to varying degrees
Re: MaGL 3 results: first time's the charm
Yeah no gonna agree with Pyro on this one, the secret exit here falls into the same trap as like 99% of dragon coin secret exits - namely, being pretty much literally just 'oh man replay the level but this time IN ONE LIFE! :O' - and this one doesn't even have the decency to only be on one side of the midpoint, in SMW, an engine where the only ways to un-midpoint are 'reload your save' or 'beat the level.' It's an avoidable midpoint, at least - it didn't fall into that pitfall - but it's still fundamentally just replaying the level.
Not only that, but the pipe to the last dragon coin is completely unmarked - I just re-checked the video and there's no indication whatsoever that there's a pipe there unless you're already just standing around waiting for it. There were a couple coins that came down before the pipe, had those been low enough that you could even possibly catch a glimpse of them as you start going through that sinking layer 2 section it could've been a neat and cool and good way of hiding a secret, but as it stands it's just needlessly obtuse.
Not only that, but the pipe to the last dragon coin is completely unmarked - I just re-checked the video and there's no indication whatsoever that there's a pipe there unless you're already just standing around waiting for it. There were a couple coins that came down before the pipe, had those been low enough that you could even possibly catch a glimpse of them as you start going through that sinking layer 2 section it could've been a neat and cool and good way of hiding a secret, but as it stands it's just needlessly obtuse.
- FrozenQuills
- hehe haha 2024
- Posts: 843
- Joined: 9 years ago
- Location: my skull
Re: MaGL 3 results: first time's the charm
The thing is though, is that I made my secret exit level list by seeing if the author explicitly stated the amount of exits in the submission thread (this accounted for a lot of unmarked secret exits) or seeing if the level had a red dot. If a submission post said nothing regarding a second exit, I assumed it has one exit.Alice wrote:It was enough to even pique raocow's curiosity which is saying something because he's criminally lacking in curiosity at times.Mata Hari wrote:OK real talk the fact that none of the judges were curious enough to bother with the dargadons says something about either them or the level, probably both, to varying degrees
Roboslim's is very likely the only case where the original submission never stated it had 2 exits even when it does, and it's reasonable for me to assume that the secret door wouldn't really lead to anything worthwhile. Collecting all the dragon coins in one run is quite a lot of work and really not worth it to find out. (especially in regards to what zyglrox just said about that last dragon coin)
It's not supposed to be the judges' job to figure out every single nitty gritty secret about a level anyway. Saying the number of exits a level has should've been a rule for submission.
avatar by crayonchewer!
- Mandew
- d'yo
- Posts: 529
- Joined: 14 years ago
- First name: Marc
- Pronouns: a person
- Location: canada
- https://fishingseasontraversal.talkhaus.com/
Re: MaGL 3 results: first time's the charm
I'd be the first to say that it's the designer's job to make sure that what needs to be clear is clear, so I don't blame Quill for glossing over that secret exit on the list and I don't blame the judges for glossing over it as well.
video games
- Dragon Fogel
- Master of Pointlessness
- Posts: 1415
- Joined: 10 years ago
Re: MaGL 3 results: first time's the charm
There's a message block saying "oh man dragon coins!", I think that in and of itself warrants a serious effort to get them because it's a sign that the level creator thought they were important. Whether they lead to a secret exit or not is largely irrelevant - the implication is that the level is intended to be played with you going for the dragon coins, so that's something that should be done, and its effect on gameplay should be taken into account when scoring.
Think of it this way - imagine if it hadn't been a secret exit. Wouldn't raocow still have found it in today's video? Wouldn't the criticisms of how the dragon coins were hidden still apply just as much?
The only difference would be that there was less of a reward for it, and I don't see how that would really make things better.
Think of it this way - imagine if it hadn't been a secret exit. Wouldn't raocow still have found it in today's video? Wouldn't the criticisms of how the dragon coins were hidden still apply just as much?
The only difference would be that there was less of a reward for it, and I don't see how that would really make things better.
- Mandew
- d'yo
- Posts: 529
- Joined: 14 years ago
- First name: Marc
- Pronouns: a person
- Location: canada
- https://fishingseasontraversal.talkhaus.com/
Re: MaGL 3 results: first time's the charm
Yeah well, here's my counter-argument:Dragon Fogel wrote:There's a message block saying "oh man dragon coins!", I think that in and of itself warrants a serious effort to get them because it's a sign that the level creator thought they were important. Whether they lead to a secret exit or not is largely irrelevant - the implication is that the level is intended to be played with you going for the dragon coins, so that's something that should be done, and its effect on gameplay should be taken into account when scoring.
The judges didn't bother to go after the Dragon Coins, so I'm pretty sure that a lot of other peeps wouldn't have bothered either.
They judge based on their own experience with the level as players. It's a mistake to assume that judges have to explore every aspect of something in order to properly judge it, as proper incentivism and conveyance of information is one huge part of what has to be addressed through design.
video games
- SAJewers
- ASMBXT Level Wrangler/A2XT Project Coordinator /AAT Level Designer
- Posts: 4200
- Joined: 11 years ago
- Location: Nova Scotia
Re: MaGL 3 results: first time's the charm
IMO it's one of those levels that would be better served if it were split up. Make the first mountian climb it's own level and expand it, then make the cave it's own separate level.FrozenQuills wrote:This pretty much echoes my sentiments.Le Neveu de Rameau wrote:Huh, raocow's impression of this level was pretty much the exact opposite of mine. I quite liked the first section be a fun if rompy vertical mountain-climbing section, with a simple but effective vanilla æsthetic and a pleasing autumn palette. The cave, in contrast, looks ooglay, in my opinion--yeah, some of the landforms are nice (though I'm less sure about the pointy bits lying atop flat surface), but the land contours on the interior holes (and abrupt cutoff thereon) looks awkward and the palette in the third section is exceedingly unpleasant (especially the brown in the layer 3 background). On top of that, the level undergoes a huge and jarring difficulty spike in the cave, and suddenly switches from a romp to a much more unforgiving and ambush-based style of level design. I'm surprised raocow had so little trouble with the sinking platforms--having to maintain top speed while still avoiding the bullets gave me considerably more trouble. On the whole, the outdoor and cave sections feel like two completely different levels, and the latter doesn't feel especially thoroughly tested.
Re: MaGL 3 results: first time's the charm
I'm not actually blaming the list for not having it marked. With your explanation especially it makes sense why raocow's list wouldn't have it. My criticism was more leveled at the judges themselves. It might not have flat out stated "yo there's two exits" but it was clear enough that the judges should have at least looked into it. My point about even raocow catching it was because it was so blatant that they were clearly important that even he realized he should check even though he's commonly lacking in curiosity over stuff like that.FrozenQuills wrote:The thing is though, is that I made my secret exit level list by seeing if the author explicitly stated the amount of exits in the submission thread (this accounted for a lot of unmarked secret exits) or seeing if the level had a red dot. If a submission post said nothing regarding a second exit, I assumed it has one exit.
Roboslim's is very likely the only case where the original submission never stated it had 2 exits even when it does, and it's reasonable for me to assume that the secret door wouldn't really lead to anything worthwhile. Collecting all the dragon coins in one run is quite a lot of work and really not worth it to find out. (especially in regards to what zyglrox just said about that last dragon coin)
It's not supposed to be the judges' job to figure out every single nitty gritty secret about a level anyway. Saying the number of exits a level has should've been a rule for submission.