DT3 - raocow and the game that ended

[Lostsoldier20]

Wasn't there a visible checkpoint at some point, like with other multi-fight bosses?

Not that I saw.

Man, raocow really isn't into the dialog. I can see why, and I don't blame him. But I love it all. Jerry was pretty 2D (pun intended) in DT1. Where here, he's not just some super awesome dude who is great at games. Some of it is pretty funny too. But opinions be opinions.

He's gonna really hate Gate 6 through Gate H...

[Alice]

Man, raocow really isn't into the dialog. I can see why, and I don't blame him. But I love it all.

I can't really see why personally. I found all the writing up until the point I stopped playing pretty entertaining.

[Validon98]

I want everyone's headcanon to be that I don't really know what I'm doing at all and simply mashed my keyboard till DT3 popped out somehow.

I'm 99% certain that there's no way that works, and 1% certain that the programming language you used translates keyboard mashing to actual working code. Game design is weird like that I know. :V

I have no idea what's up ahead but I'm 99% sure what Gate 3 is despite having no knowledge of what's ahead.

Heart energy is so Castlevania it hurts. I wonder which Castlevania games are going to be going.

[Piter Lauchy]

I can see how that Claire/Jerry dialog is annoying, though it doesn't really bother me as much as raocow. His hate for it amuses me, similar to his hate towards Mike.

[Telamon]

I can see how that Claire/Jerry dialog is annoying, though it doesn't really bother me as much as raocow. His hate for it amuses me, similar to his hate towards Mike.

Yeah, but Mike is objectively awful. I don't understand the dialog hate at all.

[kitikami]

I'm not the biggest fan of Jerry and Claire's bickering either, but Jeremy and Chao's conversations do a good job of offsetting it (and pretty much Chao's conversations with everyone #teamChao).

This game has some pretty nice achievements.

[Piter Lauchy]

I can see how that Claire/Jerry dialog is annoying, though it doesn't really bother me as much as raocow. His hate for it amuses me, similar to his hate towards Mike.

Yeah, but Mike is objectively awful. I don't understand the dialog hate at all.

To me, Claire and especially Jerry are pretty awful, too. They're just so full of themselves. I can appreciate it as an observer, but I wouldn't particularly like them in real life. And when they're talking to each other, that full-of-themselves-ness shines through really hard.

#teamChao

And yes, also this.

[NegativeZeroZ]

If this were any other indie game, I'd laugh when those "OC looking idiots" turned out to be secretly designed by testers or kickstarter backers, but luckily for raocow, this is DT, so they're actually from the same game as Jerry and Claire's sprites, I believe.

As a tester I tried primarily to improve on the "original vision," and rarely demanded complete changes to the game unless something gameplay-related sucked on an unholy level. So most of the cheese remains, though when something made me cringe I was slightly biased in which characters I chose to permit more cheese compared to others. For now I'll just say that the villains rarely got away with it unless it was a canon character trait.

Everybody sees Jerry and Claire's "banter" from a different perspective. I've always looked at it from an "idiot and straight man comedy duo" perspective. With Jerry obviously being the idiot, and Claire giving him a more serious answer than he really deserves, or than he is even really looking for. I think Zephyr explained it once as Jerry trying to talk to Claire like he always talks to Jeremy, and Claire doesn't get it.

That little window in the upper right corner that shows the idle character was the first major addition to the game that I was responsible for. In the 2.1 demo, that wasn't a thing, and it may seem obvious in retrospect now that I'm bringing it up, but it caused problems. Later on when the split party segments get more complex, you couldn't imagine them being playable without it, but it's true.

[OrangeXP]

There is a list with all the songs used here, but no clue which one is being used here exactly.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/327 ... ts_DT3.txt

That song is called "Video Games" apparently: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/351701

[Alice]

To me, Claire and especially Jerry are pretty awful, too. They're just so full of themselves. I can appreciate it as an observer, but I wouldn't particularly like them in real life. And when they're talking to each other, that full-of-themselves-ness shines through really hard.

That's why I find them so hilarious personally, especially when it comes to Jerry.

#teamChao

And yes, also this.

Chao's definitely the best character in the game.

[ZephyrBurst]

In retrospect, yes #TeamChao all the way. (Plus two other characters that haven't shown up yet.)

Anyway, as a guy who has played probably too many video games and stuff (and read too much dialogue), I can get why raocow doesn't care for the Jerry/Claire banter. I wouldn't expect everyone to care for it. I'm actually more surprised to see the amount of people that mentioned that they did like it both here and on youtube.

And oh man, Unreal Guy pitch change has made all the letsplays pretty great in those heavy chain kill moments. Thank you random youtube comment guy whose name I should have noted.

P.S. Is anyone able to extend the spoiler in the first post? Cause I can't except when I hit preview. If it's some broken thing here, I'll change the way I handle the links there.

[memnarch]

In retrospect, yes #TeamChao all the way. (Plus two other characters that haven't shown up yet.)

Anyway, as a guy who has played probably too many video games and stuff (and read too much dialogue), I can get why raocow doesn't care for the Jerry/Claire banter. I wouldn't expect everyone to care for it. I'm actually more surprised to see the amount of people that mentioned that they did like it both here and on youtube.

And oh man, Unreal Guy pitch change has made all the letsplays pretty great in those heavy chain kill moments. Thank you random youtube comment guy whose name I should have noted.

P.S. Is anyone able to extend the spoiler in the first post? Cause I can't except when I hit preview. If it's some broken thing here, I'll change the way I handle the links there.

You mean the show/hide spoiler box thing? Works on my end.

[pholtos]

So is Lost Vikings going to be like an in-between type puzzle thing or will it get it's own gate?

[ano0maly]

Just to refresh your memory: Eve is a character from the anime Black Cat. She's the sprite used for Claire (and apparently an anime cosplay, idk), just like Allen is the sprite used for Jerry. Speaking of which, I'm kind of surprised that Gate 2 (Zelda Gate) didn't call out the fact that Chao is using the Navi sprite.

The cookie you get from the Yoshi isn't something you carry with you in your inventory. It's just an immediate full heal and recharge. Not necessary since you can go find heals elsewhere, but when it costs one coin, why not try it out.

Wasn't there a visible checkpoint at some point, like with other multi-fight bosses?

Not that I saw.

I mean that there used to be one before the final phase, when it used to be more difficult.

So is Lost Vikings going to be like an in-between type puzzle thing or will it get it's own gate?

It's a one-time thing. And it's really just a reference through used of graphics rather than being based on the Lost Vikings gameplay, although I suppose the gameplay design of the room does bear a resemblance.

The gates are mostly based on the major classic franchises that I believe are important to ZephyrBurst. You can kind of guess what they are from the content presented in DT1.

[Alice]

P.S. Is anyone able to extend the spoiler in the first post? Cause I can't except when I hit preview. If it's some broken thing here, I'll change the way I handle the links there.

If the site's being slow it'll take awhile before you can open it. The page has to be fully loaded before the spoilers are actually there. Before that it's just a placeholder object on the page. (There's a weird conflict between the spoilers and one of the site's scripts which randomly inserts a bunch of linebreaks into each spoiler. This was the only way I could find to fix it.)

[Le Neveu de Rameau]

OH MAN DISTORTED TRAVESTY STORY ANALYSIS*

Concerning comments on the writing/bickering--I feel as though Jerry was a lot more sympathetic in the first DT; while he was quite proud of his vidja gaming abilities there, he didn't seem quite so full of himself, and certainly never disrespected the abilities of his allies--rather, he had a penchant (much to Jeremy's embarrassment) for making cheesy but apparently heartfelt remarks about The Power of Friendship, which gave him an endearing side. In DT2, he was a lot more of a jerky-jerk, but that made sense considering we were seeing things from the perspective of Claire, who apparently had a bad falling out with him, and with whom one can speculate he always had something of a rivalry, a dynamic which was heightened by their separate, parallel investigations in that game. But then that game taught us that self-actualization need not come at the cost of rejecting or belittling others, and we were all very enriched, uplifted, and generally became better people as a result of our experience.

What seems odd about the writing in DT3 is that despite a shift to a perspective more like the first game, Jerry still comes off more as he did in (the first half of) DT2; that is, we seem to focus more (though perhaps not quite as exclusively) on his more flawed aspects. What's more, neither he nor Claire seem to have learned anything from the events of DT2; the ending of the second game seems to suggest that A) Jerry has learned respect Claire as a competent individual with her own strengths and abilities, including abilities which falls outside of his and Jeremy's own skillsets, and B) Claire has learned that their are limits to what one lone maverick can accomplish by themselves, and that receiving help from others is not a sign of weakness, but in some cases the most effective way for individuals to draw the most from their own respective strengths. The ending implies their acquiring at least the seed of developing an understanding of one another as complex human beings, and letting go of the grotesque caricatures they have built up of one another since their falling-out, allowing them to move on with life. Then comes the start of the third game, and--well, none of that seems to apply any longer, and we're back to "You're a jerk!" "Well, you're a berk!". What's more, differences in voice aside, they seem to have sort of leveled into the same character motivation-wise, both concerned solely with wanting to be the best, like no one ever was, and making sure that the other knows that they hold this proud title.

In some respects, that sort of makes sense, structurally--at the start of DT3, those very same skills our protagonists have learned to respect in one another have suddenly been taken away--they are now definitely equals, but only insofar as neither one can do much of anything. At the same time, each feels motivated to prove their superiority precisely because the differences between them are so minor; it's the very lack of meaningful distinction itself which drives them so hard to try to distinguish themselves from one another. Things take a bit of a cruel turn as Jerry quickly builds up a respectable ability set, while Claire is still left with naught but the ability to run and bop very specific types of enefoes on the noggin, essentially leaving her as redundant baggage, the very thing she was driven in the second game to prove to Jerry that she wasn't. Interestingly, Jerry, despite retaining his snarkiness in his exchanges with her, is oddly diplomatic in not reminding her that she is currently completely outclassed by him (Chao takes care of that one, surprisingly). What's more, when she wonders aloud when she'll finally get her turn again, his response is along the lines of "in due time, soon enough, soon enough", and not "lol noob wut cud u do?" In retrospect, I may have been a bit to harsh on him above, as even when he is being snarky, one never gets the sense that he actually means it, whereas there's a bit more of an undertone of genuine bitterness in some of Claire's remarks towards him. But I wouldn't be surprised if that's in itself motivated by some legitimate past grievances.

That all said--it's not unreasonable to assume that character development will follow gameplay development. In that respect, we can probably expect to get a Claire-specific chapter soon, in which she acquires her own abilities, distinct from but by no means inferior to Jerry, returning them to a relative position more similar to that in the second game. And then, of course, we can expect subsequent Claire-and-Jerry segments to require using their respective ability sets in conjunction with one another, with each not only accomplishing things the other cannot, but indeed helping their teammate to apply their own abilities in the best way possible, in a way they could not achieve on their respective lonesomes. Thus will rivalry necessarily give way to cooperation, and the Power of Friendship will again succeed over those who wish to sow division and discord. yaaaaaaaay


* Let is be known that the above was written when I should have been continuing work on a proper piece of academic literary analysis. Just call me Efficient-Use-Of-Time-And-Resources Jones!†

† It is not actually mandatory to call me Efficient-Use-Of-Time-And-Resources Jones.

[Money]

the jerry/claire stuff doesn't bother me too much, but i mean id be lying if i said it doesnt retread the same ground over and over, kinda getting repetitive (not to mention long winded)

[NegativeZeroZ]

OH MAN DISTORTED TRAVESTY STORY ANALYSIS

I can't tell you how your analysis compares to actual future events, but I enjoyed that.

If you guys who have already played all the way through the game or watched someone else do it haven't watched Hadriex's playthrough yet, I recommend it. He's the guy who made the DT1 and DT2 trailers, as well as most of the DT3 teasers, and he was given the first fully playable beta version, and updates several times throughout. He decided to record it for testing purposes and has been uploading it as a blind LP for a while now, and he's nearly finished. So if you're into the idea of seeing some of the changes that happened during beta phase, you can see some of them there. Among said changes, there were a LOT of dialogue revisions, particularly to Jerry and Claire's banter. Jerry actually used to be even more hostile than he is now, and was toned down before release, because some of his dialogue at the beginning of the game was just. Why.

[Lostsoldier20]

And oh man, Unreal Guy pitch change has made all the letsplays pretty great in those heavy chain kill moments. Thank you random youtube comment guy whose name I should have noted

My favorite point so far is the Kaizo kill-chain at 0.5 speed. So many clips overlapping each other.... I've been making it a point to change the pitch every time I play to test out every option. Can't wait for

Tower Defense

just to see how broken he gets.

Chao is pretty great, yeah. Gotta agree with all the peoples and there are plenty of reasons for it. But I gotta say #teamBird. (Mostly for the hat. I wouldn't mind another bird hat... maybe the giant colorful bird.)

OH MAN DISTORTED TRAVESTY STORY ANALYSIS

Wow that's some text alright... Gotta say you're pretty spot on though, Efficient-Use-Of-Time-And-Resources Jones. I'm looking forward to your analysis of the rest of the story.

[Plutia]

i liked the jerry/claire banter personally

also this game has gone to the birds

[AuraLancer]

It was always for the birds.

[Grounder]

There's something more to do in the Bullet Bill room, but it'll probably be better to just wait until you're done with Gate 3 to do it.

I'm only saying this because raocow might never find it otherwise.

[Plutia]

hey raocow i'd recommend not immediately spending all that money you got from grinding for that skill point and quiver and instead waiting till you find a new shop with new items maybe????

just saying this just in case just in case!!!!

[Le Neveu de Rameau]

also this game has gone to the birds

It was always for the birds.

I highly suspect that the expression "for the birds" was only ever once used, directly coinciding with its initial coinage, as a means to suggest something to be of insufficient quality, and that every single instance of its use following that has actually been a bird joke premised on the assumption that this idiom is frequently used in a straight-faced manner without the mildest hint of avian wryness. But maybe I'm just crowing on, ranting and raven like some sort of booby who's escaped from the nuthatch.

[raocow]

so kinda like having 'a whale of a time'