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A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Post by SAJewers »

We're not. I'm honestly not a big fan of them for design reasons, and it's my understanding that you can't simply add them into an episode without having it replace another character, or specifically using them in a level, which is specifically not what we're doing. It doesn't fit the scope of the project at all. Outside of maybe the launcher, I doubt we'll be using any of the new stuff for scope reasons.

I want to avoid Scope Creep as much as possible, so I'm very much against adding anything else at this point. What we have now is what we're sticking with; the only additions that'll be me to what we have so far is re-aligning the HUD slightly to fit the Demo Counter, and implementing the Ticking P-Switch from ASMT.

If we do Broadsword for the final battle, He'll just be a Sheath/Link re-sprite.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Post by Hoeloe »

SAJewers wrote:We're not. I'm honestly not a big fan of them for design reasons, and it's my understanding that you can't simply add them into an episode without having it replace another character, or specifically using them in a level, which is specifically not what we're doing. It doesn't fit the scope of the project at all. Outside of maybe the launcher, I doubt we'll be using any of the new stuff for scope reasons.

I want to avoid Scope Creep as much as possible, so I'm very much against adding anything else at this point. What we have now is what we're sticking with; the only additions that'll be me to what we have so far is re-aligning the HUD slightly to fit the Demo Counter, and implementing the Ticking P-Switch from ASMT.

If we do Broadsword for the final battle, He'll just be a Sheath/Link re-sprite.
I agree on this point to be honest, though I will note that the ability to use the new characters without replacing existing ones is being looked into. It's entirely possible that by the time Episode 3 is in the works, this will be possible to do, but the new characters are far too beta at the moment to be included in a proper episode.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Post by SAJewers »

That'll be definitely something to look into For Ep3 then.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Post by raocow »

DON'T WORRY, I HAVEN'T READ ANYTHING

I just don't know where else to put this, so... I'm putting this here. I haven't read anything in the thread, and I won't read any further post unless like someone pm's me to come check a thing or whatever

Anyways.

During some of my fever delirium while I was sick I doodled a bit and somehow this lead me to the sketch below. Now, I have heard through one way or another that episode 3 is gonna be using the elders for bosses, right? And also, there is an attempt at making more and more of a coherant kind of story, right?

Now I know that the ideal number of boss is usually 8, and I figured it'd just make things awkward with there only be 4 elders so... I dunno. I've reclassified the below as the Second Cousins. A.B.C.D.s produced by a rival company, they are linked to the Elders in some way. Are they looking for them? Protect them? Hunting them down ?! I have no clue, this is something for you guys to figure out, but I figure having 8 pre-defined bosses would make things easier to write about?

And I figured I'd put this now, way ahead of time, in case y'all are all about introducing things ahead of time? Honestly, as ever, I have no idea, I'm just producing parts that you are all free to use or not use, as you see fit.

Things can be modified as you all want. Things are also left super vague so they may be defined by the community.
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noise - power: sandwiches. addicted to the internet

My apologies.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Post by SAJewers »

Would 4 Elders, 1 "Second Cousin" attached to each work?
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Post by raocow »

Sure, if anything that's probably the most straight-forward way to go.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Post by Rixithechao »

Okay, we haven't been doing a good job of keeping the forums involved and informed in the story planning as of late; most of the discussion on that front has remained in the skype group or on the wiki with little mention of the wiki here in the forums. So let's get this thread back up and running!

http://asmbxt.wikia.com/wiki/Story/A2XT_Episode_2
This page has the main outline for Ep. 2's story. The "Cutscene, NPC and Character Planning" section has links to chatlogs for specific character/world discussions and cutscene scripts. We're still in the process of sorting through the chatlogs so we don't have everything yet, and as of writing this post only one full cutscene script has been drafted up.

http://asmbxt.wikia.com/wiki/ASMT_Series_Story
And a reminder that this page is to serve as a sort of central hub for story reference, with information on characters, the official timeline and summaries of each game's story. It's still woefully incomplete and largely unverified -- a lot of it was done from memory -- so if anyone's interested in helping out by filling out the character and game pages, it would be greatly appreciated. Please note that some of these pages may contain character-related spoilers!
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Post by SAJewers »

While I haven't kept up with the plot stuff at all, I'll say that we don't have to be 100% serious with the entirety of the plot. Something like ASMT's plot would probably be perfect.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Post by SAJewers »

Double-posting here, but give ASMT's plot thread a read. There's some good ideas in there on plot & cutscenes:

viewtopic.php?p=8999#p8999
viewtopic.php?p=9498#p9498
viewtopic.php?p=9992#p9992
viewtopic.php?p=12073#p12073
viewtopic.php?p=12123#p12123

EDIT: some thoughts on cutscenes:

We should probably keep them to a minimum. Maybe forgo the start of world cutscenes like Analog Funk had (or keep them super short, like Con's messages in ASMT), and keep the plot to towns and the end of level bosses, only using cutscenes elsewhere where absolutely necessary.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Post by Hoeloe »

SAJewers wrote: EDIT: some thoughts on cutscenes:

We should probably keep them to a minimum. Maybe forgo the start of world cutscenes like Analog Funk had (or keep them super short, like Con's messages in ASMT), and keep the plot to towns and the end of level bosses, only using cutscenes elsewhere where absolutely necessary.
I would conflate EoW and SoW cutscenes together. So rather than EoW -> hub -> SoW -> levels, you get EoW/SoW -> hub -> levels.

That said, I agree cutscenes should be kept to a minimum, but there are cases where the plot may rely on them existing mid-world in order to retain flow. I'd argue this is acceptable, but should only be used when necessary, and if possible kept short.

Keep in mind also that cutscenes will be a lot cleaner and can be better integrated into gameplay itself through use of LunaLua, so even if we had just as much cutscene time as Analog Funk, we can make the cutscenes themselves more engaging.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Post by SAJewers »

I'm thinking for "SoW" cutscenes, they should be something really short right at the start of the world, like in ASMT, where the first level of each world started with a message box that gave flavour to the world.

What I'm thinking is 1 or 2 "long" cutscenes like the cutscenes that started ASMT off, and everything else being a sort of short interlude to move the plot forward. That seemed to work well in ASMT. Maybe the following? (Most of the event stuff on the wiki can probably be exposed in towns)



Intro (long cutscene): explain the R.E.T.C.O.N and stuff. The R.E.T.C.O.N can only go back in time, as it's missing the component that lets it go forward, which was stolen by someone.

World 1 Interlude: Demo and Co. defeats the robot Noctel. Who is Noctel? Regardless, the Super Leek allow Demo and Co. to move on to the next world.

World 2 Interlude: Demo and Co defeats Garish's Entire Army. Garish is named King of the Chronotrons for some reason.

World 3 (long cutscene): Demo and Co. have yet again defeated Pandamona and thwarted her plans for World Domination (reveal Noctel was built by her). Demo/Iris introduces the Uncles. They head off, in search of Uncle Broadsword. (everything on the wiki about the Broadsword fight is contained in that level)

World 4 Interlude: Demo and Co. have defeated Uncle @sbestos.

World 5-1 Interlude: Demo and Co. have defeated Uncle Denmark's pet fish? (I dunno) They continue on in Search of Uncle Denmark to retrieve the missing component of the R.E.T.C.O.N in his possession. (somehow reveal that he has it in a town?)

World 5-2 Interlude: Demo and Co. have defeated Uncle Denmark and retrieved the stolen component. (The stuff about World 6 being WTF world would be contained either at the start of World 6, or with an NPC before the teleporter in the HUB)

World 6 (long cutscene): Demo and Co. Defeat Uncle Broadsword, who explains to them the Uncles' true intentions. Sow the seeds for a Heel face turn by Broadsword.

World 7-1 Interlude: Demo and Co. have defeated Uncle Rewind's robotic raocow master. What is Uncle Rewind planning?

World 7-2 Interlude: Demo and Co have defeated Uncle Rewind and saved the citizens of the planet from Nothing at all.

World 8 cutscenes: Uncle Broadsword's Heel Face Turn happens at the start. Long cutscene between the fake Uncle Pumpernickle fight at his Castle, and the True battle at the R.E.T.C.O.N. Uncle Broadsword sacrifices himself to save the Universe.

World 9 Interlude: Demo and Co. have bested Serac in a friendly joust. Queue sequel hook.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Post by Rixithechao »

The new cutscene review thread is finally up, sorry for the wait!
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=16529
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Post by Rixithechao »

As mentioned in the general discussion thread, here's the chatlogs for every mention of the "Pal is the Artist" idea in the Skype group up to that point:

http://pastebin.com/Jihz4qsa

A quick summary of some other ideas brought up in these discussions:
  • Feed is a Space Master of Space, hence her omniscience/omnipresence
  • Kood is a SMoS himself but never brought it up because "nobody asked", and nobody believes him
  • Kood's a weakling because his power as a SMoS is proportional to the amount of respect and authority others give him ("The other space masters collectively cross out his picture in their high school yearbooks")
  • Kood refers to other SMoS by blatantly incorrect mundane names (e.g. Feed = Stephen, Demo's Master = Bill), but they never bother correcting him
  • The Artist is a rogue SMoS who went into hiding, Kood either doesn't recognize him because he's only familiar with the title or does recognize him/the name Pal but doesn't want to be rude/make assumptions
  • The rival who created the Second Cousins is trying to draw out the Artist, either to bring him to justice or for personal reasons
Again, these ideas should not be treated as definitive canon but rather as potential plot points for consideration when Ep. 3's development rolls around.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Post by Rixithechao »

Sorry for the triple-post, but cross-posting from skype + some other stuff.

1 - Should we have a Mission Control-type character in Ep. 2 like Con in ASMT or Jeremy and Chao in the Distorted Travesty games?

2 - Some games have built-in encyclopedias for their character bios, plot points from previous games, additional exposition, etc., and they're good for bringing newcomers up to speed and keeping all the extra info optional but easily accessible. I was thinking we could include one in the form of a library/archive sub-area in the hub. How does everyone else feel about that idea?

3 - I said on Skype that I think we're about ready to start hashing out the game's script through the new cutscene feedback thread, but after considering the above two points there's probably some other things we need to establish/agree upon first as well. So what areas of the plot do folks think need more discussion?

Keep in mind that we still have the plot outline on the wiki with a breakdown for the major events of each world - nothing in that outline is set in stone, but please take it into consideration.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Post by Hoeloe »

Rockythechao wrote: 1 - Should we have a Mission Control-type character in Ep. 2 like Con in ASMT or Jeremy and Chao in the Distorted Travesty games?
I'd argue no. It's not necessary and can really mess up the pacing. Where would said MC character appear in the game? Text within levels (which can throw off the original intent), or in the hub/towns only (which is pretty much pointless as you could have a regular talking NPC at this point)?
Rockythechao wrote: 2 - Some games have built-in encyclopedias for their character bios, plot points from previous games, additional exposition, etc., and they're good for bringing newcomers up to speed and keeping all the extra info optional but easily accessible. I was thinking we could include one in the form of a library/archive sub-area in the hub. How does everyone else feel about that idea?
If someone is willing to build it, then I don't see a problem, but it's worth considering things like sprite replacements and custom enemies.
Rockythechao wrote: 3 - I said on Skype that I think we're about ready to start hashing out the game's script through the new cutscene feedback thread, but after considering the above two points there's probably some other things we need to establish/agree upon first as well. So what areas of the plot do folks think need more discussion?
I think we're pretty much at that point, to be honest.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Post by SAJewers »

Rockythechao wrote:Sorry for the triple-post, but cross-posting from skype + some other stuff.

1 - Should we have a Mission Control-type character in Ep. 2 like Con in ASMT or Jeremy and Chao in the Distorted Travesty games?
We already have Feed and Calleoca that can sorta do that already/be those people, so I wouldn't bother.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Post by Rixithechao »

Hoeloe wrote:I'd argue no. It's not necessary and can really mess up the pacing. Where would said MC character appear in the game? Text within levels (which can throw off the original intent), or in the hub/towns only (which is pretty much pointless as you could have a regular talking NPC at this point)?
I'm not advocating injecting story stuff into regular levels. My position on that has always been to keep it restricted to cutscenes, castles, world intro levels, towns and any other levels/parts of the game deliberately being made after the worlds and general plot have been established. (Though now that I think about it, are we still including narrative elements in the intro levels for each world? I've been going under the assumption that they'll be like they were in Ep. 1, but I seem to recall SAJ saying something about making them closer to regular levels. I probably should've asked about this in the previous post >_<)

But yeah, the way I see it a potential Mission Control character could be used to streamline bits of the plot and keep the characters moving forward when necessary; in worlds 3 and 5, for example, we currently have it set up so Demo and company obtain the Super Leek in the first half of the world but continue on to the second half anyway. In W5's case, it's well-justified -- Rewind steals parts of the RETCON that prevent the heroes from moving on and leaves them with Denmark -- but the if the characters aren't informed of this in the world then the player would need to go back to the hub and discover it for themselves, then return to the world. In W3, on the other hand, the crew doesn't have much of a reason to continue to the 3-2 castle and fight Pandamona... the ones I've come up with so far have been flimsy, contrived, convoluted and/or would bloat the cutscenes far too much. An MC character telling the crew to investigate some anomaly elsewhere in the world before they return to the hub may not be as potentially compelling as character-driven drama or snatching the Super Leek away right before the player can get it, but it's simple and believable enough.

As it is I believe we already have a Chronoton set to intercept the crew at certain points in the first few worlds, so maybe it could be that same character; after the player is introduced to the hub we could have them just speak with our heroes remotely through some vaguely-defined sophisticated spacetime robobird technology from that point on.
SAJewers wrote:We already have Feed and Calleoca that can sorta do that already/be those people, so I wouldn't bother.
Ah, that's true. Even so, they don't really have that many appearances or big roles in the current plot outline afaik -- Calleoca's just in Aquatic Grotto and I think one other level, dunno if Feed's even in any of the submitted levels -- and the Chronotons are already established as the ones tasking the crew with fixing reality and overseeing their retrieval of the Super Leeks. I agree that it's generally better to reuse established characters instead of coming up with new ones, though if we do use Feed or Cal we should make sure they have a stronger presence in the story than Feed's single early scene in Ep. 2. Maybe we could have them in place of the previously-mentioned Chronoton?

Ultimately I'm not dead-set on having an MC character; if we can write our way around the issues I mentioned above without resorting to using a character with some degree of omniscience/omnipresence as a convenient plot device, I'd rather we do that instead. But I figure this is something we should work out sooner rather than later.
Hoeloe wrote:If someone is willing to build it, then I don't see a problem, but it's worth considering things like sprite replacements and custom enemies.
I wasn't thinking of a beastiary so much as bios of the main characters/bosses/important NPCs, short summaries of cutscenes and previous games, that kinda stuff. Unless you're talking about using up NPCs, blocks and BGOs in the hub level files, in which case, yeah, I see how that would be an issue. I'd be willing to contribute text for such a place if it does become a thing, but if not that's fine.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Post by Rixithechao »

...Sorry about that wall of text, I'll try and keep it short and simple this time. I'm gonna post chatlogs here instead of the wiki from now on for the sake of simplicity and convenience. Really should've just done that from the start...

Pesky things like continuity won't stop Serac

Things discussed:
- Serac should be the only character [besides Feed and Calleoca] to break the fourth wall and she should do it the most of all.
- Rednaxela's giving her some awesomely-meta attacks for her W9 battle.
- Serac establishes herself as Demo's sister-in-law in Ep. 1. This much is canon.
- It was previously suggested that we retcon her to being Demo's aunt and married to Pumpernickel.
- It could be funny to have Serac's relationship change with every appearance and have her joke about consistency/continuity in a talkhaus game.
- Garish is a slimy objectivist jerk.
- If Serac did marry one of Demo's siblings, she did so as an elaborate scheme to bore Demo to death. She didn't expect Demo would actually hurl the entire salad bar at the live musical entertainment, however.
- Maybe Serac isn't related to Demo at all and just keeps insisting she is, much to Demo's and Iris' annoyance.
- Maybe her appearance in Ep. 2 isn't the actual Serac, but that of Demo's personal reaper manifesting as her aunt grandmother sister-in-law.

Additional ideas in retrospect (feel free to disregard):
- If we go with the idea of Feed and Calleoca being Space Masters of Space, perhaps Serac could be one too? ...Though between them and Demo's master, that would make four established characters SMoS, and if we have Kood, the Artist and the Master of the Second cousins all be revealed as Space Masters in the next episode...
- If this isn't the real Serac but a manifestation of her, it could be a personalized trial to determine whether Demo and company are worthy of obtaining the last chicken wing (which could be Papi Earthquake to set up for the next episode or just a callback to the beginning of the game)
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Post by SAJewers »

Any chance of including this somehow? (just throwing this out there)
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Post by Tobi555 »

I know its not a priority but for the timeline wouldn't it be better to just go ASMT > A2MT > ASMBXT > A2XT Ep1 > Ep2 > Ep3 > Ep4 The only potentially conflicting thing to my knowledge here is Serac being mentioned in A2MT but that's just in passing then 2 games later is when she reveals herself (obviously A2XT Ep1) I guess it could go anywhere but now that A2MT's done it adds the last piece of the puzzle to the timeline :lol: Any thoughts? :)
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Post by Hoeloe »

Tobi555 wrote:I know its not a priority but for the timeline wouldn't it be better to just go ASMT > A2MT > ASMBXT > A2XT Ep1 > Ep2 > Ep3 > Ep4 The only potentially conflicting thing to my knowledge here is Serac being mentioned in A2MT but that's just in passing then 2 games later is when she reveals herself (obviously A2XT Ep1) I guess it could go anywhere but now that A2MT's done it adds the last piece of the puzzle to the timeline :lol: Any thoughts? :)
To be honest, timeline placement isn't something we really need to be concerned with.

This game is very firmly placed "after A2XT episode 1", which is very clearly "after ASMBXT". The placement between the ASMBXT and ASMT series is somewhat up in the air, though the X series was originally meant as a prequel.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

Post by Tobi555 »

Hoeloe wrote:
Tobi555 wrote:I know its not a priority but for the timeline wouldn't it be better to just go ASMT > A2MT > ASMBXT > A2XT Ep1 > Ep2 > Ep3 > Ep4 The only potentially conflicting thing to my knowledge here is Serac being mentioned in A2MT but that's just in passing then 2 games later is when she reveals herself (obviously A2XT Ep1) I guess it could go anywhere but now that A2MT's done it adds the last piece of the puzzle to the timeline :lol: Any thoughts? :)
To be honest, timeline placement isn't something we really need to be concerned with.

This game is very firmly placed "after A2XT episode 1", which is very clearly "after ASMBXT". The placement between the ASMBXT and ASMT series is somewhat up in the air, though the X series was originally meant as a prequel.
True just thought I'd bring it up I knew the timeline wasn't a priority just was curious on people's thoughts but I understand there's far more important things at hand :)
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