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Multiperson Levels Thread

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morsel/morceau
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by morsel/morceau »

worldpeace125 wrote: Actually the retry prompt adopted this level transition method instead of getting into "level loading" game mode. I actually found some long sublevels didn't work well with the current retry prompt.
I would have died even more times without it, but I feel it may be intended by you(the level automatically makes itself easier)
Perhaps I need to find a way to bypass the glitch(for retry dialogue only) instead of debugging it because it hasn't been fixed by any of smw hackers(I may be wrong), I have no idea how tough it will be to debug the bug.
I tried resetting the sprite load status table by inserting a code (by mario90 from this thread)

Code: Select all

LDX #$80
LDA #$00
Loop:
STA $1938,x
DEX
BPL Loop
RTS
when retry is selected (I won't show exactly what I did to prompt_and_msg.asm because I broke something else EDIT: #$80 is one too many and runs into the exit table at $19B8). This solved the non spawns I was seeing in my level. Hopefully this or something similar will work more generally.
b4update.zip
I smoothed it out a bit and made it slightly shorter. "I wasn't able to figure out how to deal with the disco shells properly" : the idea was to hold back as long as possible and then rush through the turn blocks; I left just the first one in.

If there's too many real final levels, my balloon one (b3) can be removed or moved to Bowser's Castle (after some changes).
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worldpeace125
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by worldpeace125 »

morsel/morceau wrote:I tried resetting the sprite load status table by inserting a code (by mario90 from this thread)
Yeah this seems to work properly, thanks for that info!
I think it can also fix the general door/pipe transition, theoretically. It seems quite simple but I was afraid of the fact that Lunar magic has left it unchanged probably for some reason.
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by mellonpizza »

Added changes to level BB. Won't add anymore unless something demands change.
Attachments
Real final BB v1.1.zip
(37.13 KiB) Downloaded 446 times
I'm not a YTPMV'er. My goal is towards learning music and eventually making my own content with what I like (in this case ponies). I'm still studying how music works and this is what I can do so far, so to all the ytpmv'ers out there: Please stop following my videos, cause I'm not interested in making chiptune music with your rules you set up on how to make YTPMV's. Also I'd appreciate if you guys would lay off bronies in the comment section, cause these are made for them and not for people who
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morsel/morceau
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by morsel/morceau »

worldpeace125 wrote:
morsel/morceau wrote:I tried resetting the sprite load status table by inserting a code (by mario90 from this thread)
Yeah this seems to work properly, thanks for that info!
I think it can also fix the general door/pipe transition, theoretically. It seems quite simple but I was afraid of the fact that Lunar magic has left it unchanged probably for some reason.
It's a pretty rare bug; posssibly no one has noticed it? I was aware of the bug for a while but rather vague about it (see). I also simply assumed it would be too complicated for it to be worth looking at fixing.

For mellonpizza's level, lineguideactfix.asm should be made level specific because it will alter certain vanilla behaviours of sprites on line guides (not sure if any of these actually come into effect in the hack but just in case).
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by Jolpengammler »

Is the list on the first post of this thread up to date?
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by worldpeace125 »

@aterraformer
Try this cloud for your Bowser level.

The cloud is faster than the original, and becomes even faster when you press X or Y. Also I prepared sublevel_a2_def.asm that lets you customize the definitions (speed etc). I fixed other minor things too such as mario's pose when he grabs the line guided rope.
One known bug is mario can get into the 1 tile high gap when he is big, and stuck into the wall then die. The glitch can be seen only at the first screen though.
With the new cloud I found your level already became more fun, but it's kinda short and you might want to append more to the level. And now the cloud really works well on the fast scroll. You will like it(the pipe entering problem is automatically solved too).

Jolpengammler wrote:Is the list on the first post of this thread up to date?
Not actually, sorry about not caring it.

Here's a list of levels inserted into the rom

- Bowser -
A1: Jolpengammler
A2: aterraformer
A3: yogui
A4: ravegg
A5: Franky
A6: morsel/morceau
A7: Pheonix
A9: luigiman09
AA: lolyoshi
AC: Jolpengammler
AD: morsel/morceau

- Real Final -
B0: Isocitration
B1: lolyoshi
B2: morsel/morceau
B3: morsel/morceau
B4: morsel/morceau
B5: worldpeace125
B9: ravegg
BA: worldpeace125
BB: mellonpizza
BC: Daizo


And this is the reservation list

A8: Frozelar
AB: Fornaxus

B6: aterraformer
B7: Jolpengammler
B8: Franky
BD: mellonpizza
BE: lolyoshi
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morsel/morceau
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by morsel/morceau »

I have remade yet another level. I thought the balloon one (B3) was iffy - too easy compared to some of the others and not many interesting ideas.
b3.zip
Here is an ips file http://bin.smwcentral.net/u/14790/b3.7z.

Of course, it's always possible that the new version is worse (the infinite balloon is not so much to the fore as it's hard to keep a powerup, as the difficulty of an obstacle depending on whether it is tackled with big or little status is incommensurate in many cases).
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worldpeace125
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by worldpeace125 »

Let's gather some ideas for the plot of the real final level. Feel free to write your idea. Note that the sublevels and hubs which were already made cannot be omitted.

Here's my one.

(Inspired by this)
The level name will be "Abyss of Dichotomy", or alternatively "Trial of Dichotomy"(ASMT vibe)
General gimmick is that the structure seems to force players to choose one of two given options(two doors in a hub). But you can take an unexpected action and you will be in the state where you cannot access those two doors anymore. Then it will trigger the third door. Figuring out the exceptional, refusing choice can be an interesting small puzzle which can be an alternative for some super-hard rooms too. (like, the third door leads to an easier level.)

There are two functional reasons to come up with this. First, the difficulty of each room varies too much, and it's reported that some levels were excessively hard and unfair(some testers said they were never able to beat some rooms). Unfortunately the authors doesn't seem active anymore and there's rarely chance to have the levels updated to be easier. This method can flexibly accommodate these levels without sacrificing them.
Second, I'm expecting there will be 12-13 sublevels for the real final. If we just make hubs have two rooms, you have to pass through at least 6 tiers (+boss). Then the length of the level will be excessively long and exhausting. On the other hand, if some hubs can have more than two rooms, the number of steps can be reduced by 1 or 2.

To implement this idea, it's required to measure the difficulty of each room. And I'm sure it's also required for other possible plots.
Here's my rough measurement which is a bit personal too. 1 is the easiest and 4 is the hardest.
B0: 4
B1: 1
B2: 3
B3: being updated, 3 or 4? (previous 2)
B4: 2~3
B5: 2
B9: 4
BA: 2~3
BB: 2
BC: 1
BD: unfinished
BE: unfinished
BD and BE will be completed sooner or later (said by authors)

e: You are welcome to make your levels easier, if you want of course!
e2: made the description more clear

(difficulty scale)
1: obviously easy
2: hard for the first, but becomes pretty easy after learning

up until now the levels were able to beaten by testers (almost)
Higher than 2 means the levels weren't beaten by some testers.
----
3: also doable after learning, but possibly harder than 2
(2~3: the levels which deserved 3 previously, but became easier afterward. They require re-testing)
4: still hard despite learning
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mellonpizza
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by mellonpizza »

Level BD, mostly finished.
Attachments
Real final BD v0.9.zip
(23.6 KiB) Downloaded 55 times
I'm not a YTPMV'er. My goal is towards learning music and eventually making my own content with what I like (in this case ponies). I'm still studying how music works and this is what I can do so far, so to all the ytpmv'ers out there: Please stop following my videos, cause I'm not interested in making chiptune music with your rules you set up on how to make YTPMV's. Also I'd appreciate if you guys would lay off bronies in the comment section, cause these are made for them and not for people who
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worldpeace125
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by worldpeace125 »

I have something to discuss with you all.

1. Is it okay to use double spinjump antifail in general? I doubt there's any level in which it's unsafe to use it, but some of you might not want that patch.
It was said the sublevel BD requires the patch anyways.

2. Since the real final is almost done, we need to give a name to the level. Discuss or suggest any levelname? Here are some suggestions I've got from some people so far.
(General hub gimmick: you're forced to choose between two doors. but if you somehow deny to choose one, then alternative door(probably easier) will appear.)

- Real Final : or "Finale"
- Trial of Dichotomy : ASMT homage, the term dichotomy comes from the mistake that can be easily maken with the gimmick of the hub
- Shattered Dreams : "because it will kick your balls off from it's difficulty"
- Shattered Dichotomatic Dreamspace : combination of the two ideas I guess? It won't be possible due to the length however.
- Not Monty Hall's Door Problem : another name descripting the dilemma of choosing a door (one door = prize, two doors = trap)
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by Leet »

im not even involved with this project but I personally think Trial of Dichotomy is the best name
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by Jolpengammler »

Oh I like "Shattered Dreams"
how about a poll?
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by aterraformer »

Shattered Dichotomatic Dream(s) could fit. I mostly say because Trials is used in.... huh, neither Jolpe or Iso's levels?
raocow wrote:the plan is to wait for Jump to be released and then replacing the graphics without telling anyone involved with Jump.
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by Ryrir »

The Trial Of Monty Hall's Shattered Dichotomatic Dream
this is getting laundromatic
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worldpeace125
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by worldpeace125 »

poll(removed) I guess it's good to get more suggestions for a while
aterraformer wrote:Shattered Dichotomatic Dream(s) could fit. I mostly say because Trials is used in.... huh, neither Jolpe or Iso's levels?
I'm sure any level having a relevant title is not in this hack.
Ryrir wrote:The Trial Of Monty Hall's Shattered Dichotomatic Dream
Sorry, this one is rejected due to the length limit.
Last edited by worldpeace125 6 years ago, edited 2 times in total.
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morsel/morceau
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by morsel/morceau »

I'd like something whimsical, like "Hackers Anonymous" (based on a misreading of a news headline). If there are twelve sublevels, the trial (12 jurors) motif becomes more appropriate: "Trial by Fury"? ;"Trial and Terror"?; "Who stole the tarts?"? (the final boss's projectiles all become jam tarts in this case).
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worldpeace125
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by worldpeace125 »

Alright let me open the strawpoll page again, though possibly there can be other good options.

here
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by worldpeace125 »

"Shattered Dreams" is chosen for the level's name
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morsel/morceau
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by morsel/morceau »

I made another possible Bowser level today (since the 12~15 slots haven't filled up yet).
ae.zip
Steals an idea from S Mario https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQbx-1LaNf0
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worldpeace125
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by worldpeace125 »

I recently changed the spinjump physics, which now checks whether the relative y speed is downward instead of mario's absolute y speed, that is, if (mario's y speed - sprite's y speed) >= 0 then spinjumping on the sprite will be successful. In vanilla smw, it just checks if mario's y speed >= 0.

Originally when you bounce from an enemy then caught up by it, your y speed is likely to be upward(=negative=get hurt) unless you are so good at micro control of the speed... It's kinda tricky. So, this fix will make secondary bounce on enemies rising fast more feasible.

The reason of implementing it is because of sublevel A5 in Bowser's castle. Bouncing on the mad thwomp might seem too random for those who don't know the rule, and there are only few knowing this as far as I know. With this, the section can be happily played.
JUMP_00000.png
JUMP_00000.png (8.12 KiB) Viewed 5258 times
But I am certain it will somehow affect your new sublevel. Which side effect far from your intention will occur?
Maybe I should upload the base rom pretty soon.
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by morsel/morceau »

My level did take advantage of the double spin jump anti-fail (?) but the thing you're describing sounds a different thing again. Obviously, I can't really tell without playing it; if it's too silly with the changed physics, it's OK to get rid of level (or all obstacles with the fast rising thwomps could be reconsidered). Incidentally, these physics don't just apply to spin jumping? there are the situations of normal jumping on, say, a fast rising football, or slowly dropping onto something when swimming.
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worldpeace125
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by worldpeace125 »

The hijacked address was exactly where the double spinjump fix was tackling, so I assumed it's related to only spin jumping. But with a breakpoint, I've confirmed these cases you mentioned are also affected by the modification. I expect normal jumps would consider the relative y speed.
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by morsel/morceau »

AEupdate.zip
Added ceilings to discourage stratospheric rocket bouncing and try to force bouncing at particular heights, and a custom palette (as the other levels all seem to have one). It seems to work OK now.
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worldpeace125
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by worldpeace125 »

I created one sublevel for Bowser's castle in AB whose owner doesn't seem active for a year.
sublevel AB

edit: slightly fixed the p-switch section.
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Re: Multiperson Levels Thread

Post by morsel/morceau »

It's a cool level, although I found it a little hard to react to the fish at first. I made a recording after playing just to demonstrate what may or not be bugs:
-the locking of the screen at the p-switch
-not spawning the boss fish on the jump down just after that (this can also happen if I land on the platform, etc).
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