MaGL X2 Planning Thread! Please be civil Σ(￣□￣|||)

[LunarNeedle]

I believe Link shouldn't be considered a character in this contest unless a person requests it to be included in the random characters. That's just me.

Except this is the entire reason you're given a choice of characters, so that if you get Link and don't want Link you don't have to use Link.
Granted, that does leave you with only one other character to choose from unless you take easy mode, which I can agree is a legitimate concern and is the reason why I suggested separate difficulty levels for characters in addition to names as a potential possibility at the end of the last page, so that people who are at all worried about that can get 3 characters to choose from.

My biggest issue lies in the fact that without very strong usage of this engine, it'd be hard to compete with a Link level versus the competition as you're limited in platforming and more enemy focused, which leads to harder than average level design. For those not wanting the challenge, having Link show up in the RNG basically forces them on a character they might not like either. I think if you allowed the person at the time of getting the names an ability to disable Link, it would be far better balanced in my opinion.

[LunarNeedle]

I'll run some tests. I know for a fact that Mario has 1 block lower jump height than Luigi but his running is better - I can't remember if it's better acceleration or simply higher top speed.

At a base run of 4.5 blocks, Luigi's running jump hits a greater height. This height difference never exceeds one block. Thus, the difference of jump height can be remedied with a powerup. Not really grounds for difference between the two brothers.

(Edit: Acceleration is slightly different for 5 blocks untill it levels out and returns to the run speed: http://i.imgur.com/fZoexS4.png )

[Dragon Fogel]

I plan to have a big button that removes all the restrictions if at all possible (ie, removes the layer the filters are on). Or to release a version with no restrictions. I had thought about this - don't worry.

I think that satisfies me. It suggests to me that the emphasis is on thinking about a character's particular strengths and weaknesses as you make a level - either making a level where the chosen character can get past obstacles that would be tricky, but not impossible, for the others, or going in the other direction and making a level that's more of a challenge for that character than everyone else. (Which would mainly apply for Link.) Actual filters could even be made optional, and instead there could just be a block for that character (either inside or outside the level) as an indication that the level is intended for them. This could also be useful for judges comparing how the level plays with the intended character to how it plays in general.

[Mabel]

MaGLLX

Make a good link level x

[Ignoritus]

Except this is the entire reason you're given a choice of characters, so that if you get Link and don't want Link you don't have to use Link.
Granted, that does leave you with only one other character to choose from unless you take easy mode, which I can agree is a legitimate concern and is the reason why I suggested separate difficulty levels for characters in addition to names as a potential possibility at the end of the last page, so that people who are at all worried about that can get 3 characters to choose from.

My biggest issue lies in the fact that without very strong usage of this engine, it'd be hard to compete with a Link level versus the competition as you're limited in platforming and more enemy focused, which leads to harder than average level design. For those not wanting the challenge, having Link show up in the RNG basically forces them on a character they might not like either. I think if you allowed the person at the time of getting the names an ability to disable Link, it would be far better balanced in my opinion.

This has been granted at the cost of two points.

What's the point of this? If you get at least 2 characters and can choose which one you want aren't you basically assured you don't have to use Link anyways?

[Nimono]

This has been granted at the cost of two points.

What's the point of this? If you get at least 2 characters and can choose which one you want aren't you basically assured you don't have to use Link anyways?

Some people are concerned about being handed out a combo of Peach and Link.

I'm just curious, but... You said earlier that you want the contest to pull people out of their comfort zones, right? Wouldn't giving them a way to avoid the characters they don't like work against that? Like, if their comfort zone is Mario and Luigi and they get Peach and Link instead, how are they being forced to make something they don't usually if they can say "okay, i'll take a penalty" and get back to their comfort zone?

[Dragon Fogel]

Well, that's why it's a penalty?

"You will lose points if you do this thing that means you're stepping outside your comfort zone less" is in no way a conflicting message with "we want you to step outside your comfort zone".

[LunarNeedle]

This has been granted at the cost of two points.

My bad! I written the above without reading your paragraph explaining and I somewhat agree. I do feel Link is an odd one out that will most likely never be chosen, so I thought it was odd that some people can be shit out of luck when forced upon Link. However, upon reading the above post where you discussed about people taken out of their comfort zones, I have to say I completely agree with this! I'd hate to be stuck with Link, and I know people share my sympathies. Either way, it's a slight RNG issue in favor of excitement and comfort zone challenges, which I'm all for.

[Mabel]

If the characters roll in hard mode is peach/link is that really a problem if that's hard mode?(assumed that name roll and characters roll are separated)

You want hard mode right? Then just git gud and make a peach or link level.

[Blivsey]

What would one need to submit to you to apply as a hub designer, Horikawa? I'm not quite clear on that.

My question understandably got swept up in all the rule discussion, but I'd still like an answer to it.

[raocow]

I'm secretly hoping I get link because I just got the single best idea ever

I guess if it doesn't work out I could use it in a2xt2 but...

[Hoeloe]

I'm okay with any character set, pretty much. I've got some fun ideas brewing for most of them, but I'm hoping I get an interesting choice.

[Razzling]

I actually really like the random characters idea, in the first MaGL it felt like that most of the levels were designed around mario, just without a filter (and that the ones that did have a mario filter just had some npcs refer to mario by name or something.) So I'm excited to see more peach levels and stuff (were there even any legit peach levels in the first MaGL?)

also I was aslo totally considering trying out for that judge position thingy and then remembered I cant play smbx worth shit on the keyboard

[TiKi]

Toad, Peach and Link could only use mushrooms and the fireflower (the ice flower wasn't implemented) in SMBX 1.2.2. I'd say to be grateful but then again how do you do that type of thing when making a new character?!?

[Slit08]

Would it be okay, if I would actually participate in a MAGL X contest for once as someone who tries to make a Level?

[QubicTom]

If you get a random character you don't like, Make A Good Karoshi Room for them at the start of the level

[Hoeloe]

More than anything, I'm concerned about being given a combination like Mario & Luigi, because I kind of want to try a level designed for two or more players (I have some fun ideas), but they play so similarly that it would pretty much be a waste.

[HamsterZerg]

On the issue of character filters, if I remember correctly, there was a level in MAGLX1 called "Green Mystery" that had Luigi and Link show up as NPC's within the level itself. And then raocow's level from the same contest had a Mario-only filter because of something Peach said about Mario coming out of a star's anal cavity. So, really, things like these would require there to be character filters so that the levels would make sense. Yes, even if the levels take place in Gensokyo.

[Tenlade]

More than anything, I'm concerned about being given a combination like Mario & Luigi, because I kind of want to try a level designed for two or more players (I have some fun ideas), but they play so similarly that it would pretty much be a waste.

similar to this, would doing supermario2/superbdemo2 cheat for having 2 characters out you can swap between be ok for a contest? id love to do some levels based around that.

[sedron]

I am currently debating on including a monetary prize.

I am thinking of 20 dollars on steam for first place, 10 for second, and 5 for third.


What think?

It's a nice thought, but I think you're gonna end up with people getting way too serious about the whole thing (even moreso than they already do,) and some people are going to be upset by missing the cutoff or something. This should be a light-hearted, no stakes thing, right?

[Nimono]

I think a prize would be just fine. Sure, not everyone will get something, but this is supposed to be for fun, right? THAT'S the real reward here! ;)

[sedron]

I just think it'll cause more drama than necessary. Not everyone is going to be level-headed and reasonable about it like you, Riolu. =P

[Nimono]

I just think it'll cause more drama than necessary. Not everyone is going to be level-headed and reasonable about it like you, Riolu. =P

Oh uh, heh, thanks. (On that note, is it possible to get a namechange here? Been wondering that a while.) How exactly would it cause drama, though? The worst I can think of is some people complaining about how whoever got first is somehow undeserving of it, but even without a prize, wouldn't they do such a thing anyway? Aside from that, I could forsee many people joining in who otherwise wouldn't just for a chance to win that prize, but is that necessarily a bad thing? Those people might have fun with the editor and go on to continue using it to make excellent levels. ...perhaps. Possibly. You never know!

[sedron]

I just think it'll cause more drama than necessary. Not everyone is going to be level-headed and reasonable about it like you, Riolu. =P

Oh uh, heh, thanks. (On that note, is it possible to get a namechange here? Been wondering that a while.) How exactly would it cause drama, though? The worst I can think of is some people complaining about how whoever got first is somehow undeserving of it, but even without a prize, wouldn't they do such a thing anyway? Aside from that, I could forsee many people joining in who otherwise wouldn't just for a chance to win that prize, but is that necessarily a bad thing? Those people might have fun with the editor and go on to continue using it to make excellent levels. ...perhaps. Possibly. You never know!

I've seen fights break out for far more mundane reasons. The endgame of MaglX led to some pretty nasty fighting in the LP thread. You can root around through the Graveyard and find it if you wanna see what I mean. Even without that example, fights break out and people get upset all of the time here (and in places in general, honestly.)

Looking through the old MaglX thread and the argument thread, I also see that the fact that there weren't any prizes up for grabs was repeatedly mentioned. It was used as defense for the entire contest being a lighthearted, no-stakes affair. Nobody seemed to be of the opinion that it would be a good idea to have them.

Would it be bad for more people to join just for a shot at the prize? I can't say for sure, but I think it'll attract more low/garbage tier stuff. That's not really the best.

Horikawa, it's really cool that you're even entertaining the idea of prizes with monetary value. You already know that the contest is going to be riddled with arguments and drama to begin with, simply by virtue of being a Magl contest. Giving the contest stakes is going to add fuel to the fire. I already assume DeePay and others are going to crawl out of the woodwork and cause problems regardless. I don't think adding prizes will be beneficial enough to offset the problems it will undoubtedly cause.

Like, don't get me wrong, this is obviously my opinion and despite that I'd be grateful to have a chance at winning something. I just don't think that's worth it when it could make something like the Magl drama of last year happen again, only way worse.

[pholtos]

Rio if you would like a name change, message Rena.

I'm... assuming you mean your name on this forum.