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A Second Mario Thing: free alex

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Re: A Second Mario Thing: it's almost over don't worry

Post by glitch4 »

That song at the end of the video is... briliant.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: it's almost over don't worry

Post by KobaBeach »

anonymousbl00dlust wrote:I feel like you aren't differentiating 'possible' and 'likely'. Yes, you need really fast reactions. Yes, it's extremely unlikely a person would make it first-try. But it's still possible.
If it's extremely unlikely, then what's the point?
You might as well say "It's really unlikely that someone can 1cc Metal Slug on their first try, but it's possible, so yeah you can beat Metal Slug in your first attempt".

It isn't a good way to judge difficulty.
Mabel wrote:pfft. Its just a level out of most people's skill range...
Theres nothing wrong with that honestly.

this level's demographic is for those people who think Mario Must Die is a masterpiece
I don't really know if you're being sarcastic, but that's actually a bad thing considering most of the other levels in A2MT were not catering to the demographic you're talking about.
AUS wrote:Because pure platforming is just awful. Anon deserves to be lynched because this level isn't easily doable.
AUS, please no. This isn't "pure platforming".
With all the rushing it makes you do and how you can never stand still most of the time, this is essentially just a 2D Mach Speed Area.
Voltgloss wrote:The bird song made it all worthwhile.
No amount of SO RANDOM MONKEYCHEESE LOL would make placing a kaizo level in a normal hack worthwhile.

(Parrot Boom Boom was cool tho, he should make a cameo in A2XT)
ano0maly wrote:So I watched anonymousbl00dlust's level, and I think that a good guideline for an intense post-game level is that it needs at least enough moments of rest to put save states.
I think that a good guideline for an intense post-game level is to be really hard, but not to the point where it requires save states.

The word "post-game" does not magically excuse a ridiculous level of difficulty, to the point where it's pretty much mandatory to savescum. Good game design does not work that way. It doesn't matter if it's a talkhaus collab or not, you just don't do that.

Like Saturn said,
Saturn Moriya wrote:You could argue that it's suitable for the postgame. But in my opinion, having to resort to tool abuse drains all the fun out of playing it. And that (IN MY OPINION) makes it a terrible level for even the postgame of a proper game. There's people who still enjoy tool abusing through levels. But that doesn't give this level the right to be accepted into what was meant to be a2mt (going from the idea that we were trying to make an awesome super fun creative video game). It's a kaizo level, there's no way around it. But it's a good kaizo level.
Sure, there are people who adore savescumming through levels, but there are also a lot of people who don't.

I hate savescumming. It completely ruins any feeling of achievement I get from a game.
I find that it is pretty much the same as cheating.

You can't please everyone, but that doesn't excuse catering to a single niche.
sedron wrote:I think, judged as a normal level, B-Side is pretty awful.
This is in a non-kaizo hack, so this is how it should be judged, period, the end.

No "it's a post-game level so it can be kaizo" bullshit or anything.
It's in a normal hack, so a normal stage it should be.

Again, the level has interesting ideas, but it is simply not controllable by human reflexes alone.

My apologies if i'm coming off as too confrontational to anyone.
I'm not trying to offend. My sincerest apologies if I did.

inb4 someone goes "kobabeach more like kobadeepay adurrhurrhurr"

--------------------------

Outside of a few levels, A2MT was a terrible, terrible game.

Barely anything was salvageable.
The level quality was very very low for the most part.
The project was handled poorly by everyone (except for alex I think).
It was the worst thing that never came out of the talkhaus.

It's best that we just sweep this under the rug and pretend we never saw it, ever.

And just in case,
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: it's almost over don't worry

Post by Jesuiscontent »

morsel/morceau wrote:
I don't think you can beat the breath-taking arrogance of that "Be honest, notgoodwithusernames - did you test this without using any tools?". At least he seems to have calmed down a bit in his old age. There was no "Sorry I'm not part of the gaming master race like you are, anonymous bloodlust." There was no suggestion of savants. There is still the self-conscious parading of intolerance - "I've been playing for half an hour" - like a man groaning with toothache, but at least he doesn't dwell on it too much. Still, why not play it for two half hours? or three? This is an intolerable saw ride.
Just letting you know I'm a big fan of your posts thank you
KlonoaBleach wrote:The project was handled poorly by everyone (except for alex I think).
I still don't know what alex actually did to this game besides nuking diddyboy's level

Also I liked A2MT it was pretty funny to watch sometimes
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: it's almost over don't worry

Post by Voltgloss »

KobaBeach wrote:
Voltgloss wrote:The bird song made it all worthwhile.
No amount of SO RANDOM MONKEYCHEESE LOL would make placing a kaizo level in a normal hack worthwhile.
So we're clear: The "song" referenced is raocow's singing at the end of the LP. And the "it all" referenced is the act of watching the LP.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: rip in piss

Post by ano0maly »

KobaBeach wrote:I think that a good guideline for an intense post-game level is to be really hard, but not to the point where it requires save states.

The word "post-game" does not magically excuse a ridiculous level of difficulty, to the point where it's pretty much mandatory to savescum. Good game design does not work that way. It doesn't matter if it's a talkhaus collab or not, you just don't do that.
When a player decides to place a save state is, *drumroll*, subjective.

The level should be of reasonable difficulty but I'm saying that if a player decides to put a checkpoint there should be some room to do so. If there's no such space in a big marathon of intensity, then it's too much.

Also I agree with Septentrion's list
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: it's almost over don't worry

Post by KobaBeach »

Voltgloss wrote:
KobaBeach wrote:
Voltgloss wrote:The bird song made it all worthwhile.
No amount of SO RANDOM MONKEYCHEESE LOL would make placing a kaizo level in a normal hack worthwhile.
So we're clear: The "song" referenced is raocow's singing at the end of the LP. And the "it all" referenced is the act of watching the LP.
Ah, okay.
In that case, I agree with you.
ano0maly wrote:When a player decides to place a save state is, *drumroll*, subjective.

The level should be of reasonable difficulty but I'm saying that if a player decides to put a checkpoint there should be some room to do so. If there's no such space in a big marathon of intensity, then it's too much.
Someone giving themselves a checkpoint in a tough hack (like when raocow trips in time-space warps or w/e) is okay. I just have a problem when it forces the person to savescum through the entire thing.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: rip in piss

Post by Ometeotl »

alex wanted to make the final boss a bullet hell with his waifu as the antagonist, so he certainly is not without blame.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: rip in piss

Post by MrDeePay »

Depends on how the "bullet hell" plays out. Whether or not the character was "his waifu" is irrelevant, but I suppose you're letting your own biases cloud your judgement again.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: rip in piss

Post by Clamestarebla »

Ometeotl wrote:alex wanted to make the final boss a bullet hell with his waifu as the antagonist, so he certainly is not without blame.
He made me play some some of his bullet patterns and they were very fun mind you. The fact that it used touhou-like movements and not platformer movements made it really cool to play.

It's gonna be in SMWCP 1.5 anyways.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: it's almost over don't worry

Post by SAJewers »

Kinda sad this ended the way it did, but I'm glad raocow played this. Let's learn from our mistakes for the next time I guess.
S.N.N. wrote:So, what was that about this level being beatable without any future predicting?

And with that, it looks like A2MT is finally done - what a relief. The small chunk of good levels really couldn't make up for the overall "meh" feeling of the game, and I'm not sure how much of that would have been fixed even with decent Q&A. I'll be looking forward to A2XT (with the bar set very high given how much I've heard people talking it up).
Maybe it's the fact that I've played all the levels so many times that I've become jaded towards the quality of some of the levels, but I wouldn't get your hopes up too high.

pholtos apparently had a good time playing a beta version of it, so maybe it isn't all that bad.
Jesuiscontent wrote:
Also I liked A2MT it was pretty funny to watch sometimes
Aside from a few cringe spots, this was a lot more entertaining of an LP that I had expected.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: rip in piss

Post by Unaniem »

Definitely one of the weakest LPs in a while, but that's pretty much all to blame to the broken and unfinished state the game was in and that entire concept has been discussed enough for everybody to be a scholar on it by now, so I won't dwell on it.

Instead I'll be looking forward to A2XT, as I've been doing so for quite some time now~
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: it's almost over don't worry

Post by sedron »

KobaBeach wrote:
sedron wrote:I think, judged as a normal level, B-Side is pretty awful.
This is in a non-kaizo hack, so this is how it should be judged, period, the end.

No "it's a post-game level so it can be kaizo" bullshit or anything.
It's in a normal hack, so a normal stage it should be.

Again, the level has interesting ideas, but it is simply not controllable by human reflexes alone.

My apologies if i'm coming off as too confrontational to anyone.
I'm not trying to offend. My sincerest apologies if I did.
A) That's probably how the people running the project should have judged it. There's absolutely no reason anyone else needs to judge it one way or another, though.

B) This is slightly off-topic, but as much as I love that '06 LP, that game is totally controllable. No, it's not intuitive at all, but once you've got it it's all good (take this from someone who's beaten it three times, because apparently I'm a masochist.)

For the record I also think Sonic '06 is a piece of art, though in a different, entirely unintentional, stupid way.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: rip in piss

Post by CM30 »

Meh, it was a better LP than Eight Powers, I'll give it that. Or likely Randorland 3. Or that weird Luigi game some French guy made a long time ago.

But a bit of a disappointing LP in general, I must admit. Kind of expected more interesting levels given all the attention A2MT got when it was still in development and all the stuff I read in the forum topics about it. Then again, I expected the sibling halls and boss fights and stuff, which I guess were cut late in development.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: rip in piss

Post by Cryomundus »

More than anything else, I'm happy that this piece of trash is done and over with, and now we can hopefully see some better games/hacks.

rip in piss indeed.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: fuck this game

Post by Bryux »

but how doES SHE FIT INTO THE PLOT???

?

???
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: fuck this game

Post by S.N.N. »

he can't answer you anymore

we'll never know.....
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: fuck this game

Post by KobaBeach »

Bryux wrote:but how doES SHE FIT INTO THE PLOT???

?

???
S.N.N. wrote:he can't answer you anymore

we'll never know.....
She's probably the Artist (the planned final boss of A2MT before Alex decided to add Nitori).

She probably decided to brainwash Demo's siblings because she wants to take over Gensokyo and the human world with them and the power of machines or some stupid shit like that I dunno I'm not alex
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: fuck this game

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

Here is the full plot for those of you wondering:
Brainwashing, siblings, Master, Artist, something
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: fuck this game

Post by YelseyKing »

Hahahahaha. That stage. That stage, man. It's *way* beyond the skill level of myself, raocow, or heck, just about anyone I know. It was completely and totally nuts. Super difficult. Almost Kaizo-like. Everyone knows by now, I'm sure, how I feel about this kind of stage.

And yet, I loved it.

I think the "Crosses the Line Twice" trope applies here. The stage was *so* brutal and unfair to all but the most hardcore of gamers, that it crossed back over into pure brilliance and hilarity. From a strictly technical standpoint, the stage was a masterpiece. I loved the random auto-scrolling segment, as well as the one that kept changing as it whipped you back and forth. And everything on the whole was designed to be *just* beatable. The fact that you never "died", and just restarted immediately at the start of the stage was a great move, too. Honestly, while I don't think I'd have fun *playing* this stage, watching it in motion is indeed a thing of beauty.

Moving right along...

So ends A2MT, barring some potential "extra footage". Overall... well, it wasn't without its bright spots. There were definitely a lot of great *ideas* here, but not many of them were realized in any meaningful way. As I've said before, I loved the treasure system, and the music on the whole was great (I think by now, I've gotten the point across that I like the soundtrack :P). The stage design was actually surprisingly *competent*, but most of the stages really needed more than a few tweaks to make them less...cheap. The removal or addition of a few items/enemies/blocks could have gone a long way in reducing the frustration factor.

Ultimately, though, poor overall leadership, lack of a clear vision, and more enthusiasm and ambition than actual skill, brought the whole project down. Still, it was a fun "What Could Have Been" series, and I look forward greatly to A2XT.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: fuck alex

Post by Tenlade »

neat hack, kinda was interesting the sheer amount of gimmicks it had, but after a while i kinda fatigued of all the high difficulty/constant changing of graphics/gimmicks/scenario,a nd kinda stopped watching less then halfway through the videos.

It was a really neat hack and a lot of effort, but relaly too much effort and is like the perfect example of "going too far"
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: fuck alex

Post by MrDeePay »

"Too much effort" was not this hack's problem at all.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: fuck alex

Post by raocow »

Well, for what it's worth, this is the package that I prepared for Ryuu

a2mt Complete Works

It includes the big map and its levels, the fishmarket, the earlier fishmarket, and all the individual roms and whatnots I had to use through the game. It also includes 'instructions' on when to play the levels in the fishmarket/dedicated rom and whatnot (other than when a level doesn't actually, like, work)

I'm not sure if anyone actually wants this, but, well, here it is.
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: fuck alex

Post by Tenlade »

MrDeePay wrote:"Too much effort" was not this hack's problem at all.
Personal opinion but i think it would have been better not trying to be so hard or shove so many hacks in at once, though im ure this has been meantioned to death already (havent checked this thread since page 27)
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: fuck alex

Post by YelseyKing »

raocow wrote:Well, for what it's worth, this is the package that I prepared for Ryuu

a2mt Complete Works

It includes the big map and its levels, the fishmarket, the earlier fishmarket, and all the individual roms and whatnots I had to use through the game. It also includes 'instructions' on when to play the levels in the fishmarket/dedicated rom and whatnot (other than when a level doesn't actually, like, work)

I'm not sure if anyone actually wants this, but, well, here it is.
Thank you much, sir. I asked Horikawa via PM if she'd send me that when she passed it on to Ryuu (she agreed), but this works, too. Now I can come a *little* closer to finishing that danged SPC set. Hooray!
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Re: A Second Mario Thing: fuck alex

Post by Shard1697 »

An Incredibly Bad Level.

I did really enjoy this LP for the weird train-wreckiness of the whole thing, seeing all the broken stuff(many sometimes-funny examples of bad level design!) and the once-in-a-while neat thing buried under the mud. It's been an experience.
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