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Level Clearing

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Septentrion Pleiades
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Re: Level Clearing

Postby Septentrion Pleiades » 7 years ago

Wyatt wrote:Honestly, the invisible coin blocks are still not fun. They're effectively invisible; I can't see them even if I know they're there. It makes the level frustrating, the player has to take their time looking for them and they're so hard to see that they never find them. I've already given you two ways you could go about fixing this (indicate blocks with weird architechture like ground-embedded cement blocks, or make them look like background stars). If you don't like those solutions, you're gonna have to come up with something else, because the coin blocks aren't fun to deal with now.
Third option: Animate the blocks slightly so that they change color or the border rotates.
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limepie20
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Re: Level Clearing

Postby limepie20 » 7 years ago

I haven't played the new version of the level, but if the color of the coin block outline is still the same color as the background, that's no good. The reason for the outline is so you know where coin blocks are. Please try making the color very visible.

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Septentrion Pleiades
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Re: Level Clearing

Postby Septentrion Pleiades » 7 years ago

Could it just be black dashed outline Tenta? I don't think it would make it too easy, simply making slight changes to the color isn't going to create much progress.
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tenta
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Re: Level Clearing

Postby tenta » 7 years ago

Black dashed outline? Do you mean just simply change the color to...black? the thing is that i wanted to make things very challenging. Not a level that need to be done fast.
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Re: Level Clearing

Postby limepie20 » 7 years ago

Hey that's not a problem. Trust me; your level is already very challenging, but a visible outline will make the level more fun and less frustrating. It'll be a better level that way, and people will enjoy it more.

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tenta
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Re: Level Clearing

Postby tenta » 6 years ago

So the only problems are the secret to the 3-up and treasure and the dotted lines?
Wyatt wrote:There are 6 parrot coins. A2 appears on screen 0C and screen 12.

The slopes on screen 0D and 0E should extend down a tile further.

There are still homing bullets, is this an old version? If you really want homing bullets, use homing killer (sprite 3A). The regular homing bullet is bullshit and shouldn't be in the rom in the first place.

I don't like the way the chest is gotten. It's boring to have to run all that way with no danger around. You should make the entrance through the floor at screen 1A instead of through the ceiling at screen 16.

Honestly, the invisible coin blocks are still not fun. They're effectively invisible; I can't see them even if I know they're there. It makes the level frustrating, the player has to take their time looking for them and they're so hard to see that they never find them. I've already given you two ways you could go about fixing this (indicate blocks with weird architechture like ground-embedded cement blocks, or make them look like background stars). If you don't like those solutions, you're gonna have to come up with something else, because the coin blocks aren't fun to deal with now.
I will need help for the dragon coins since i only see 5 and i don't remember how these custom things work.

Also
the reason why the secret is empty is that i don't want raocow or the others who will play that there IS actually a secret right away. They will notice once they finish the level and then they will just need to do the level again.
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alex2
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Re: Level Clearing

Postby alex2 » 6 years ago

That's a shitty way to hide a secret.
Warning: Opinions expressed by alex2 or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of alex2 himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
raocow wrote:a3xt will be my last project, after which I will quit lp forever
SPASM - LevelASM for Yoshi's Island!
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Septentrion Pleiades
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Re: Level Clearing

Postby Septentrion Pleiades » 6 years ago

Switch level for clearing.

http://www.mediafire.com/?alqclxqhdq1cocw
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Re: Level Clearing

Postby limepie20 » 6 years ago

Septentrion:
The saw-munchers have a bad palette. It's just the green that makes it look bad. And that's basically it regarding technical issues.

Here's what I didn't like:
  • The unfairness of those diamond things. Seriously, you cannot control your character on slopes that steep, and they are used in excess.
  • The use of boring enemies like the goopas. That middle section just had too many of them.
Here's what I liked:
  • The use of the dino torches. These guys are fairly uncommon, so it is nice to see him.
  • That dino torch generator (or shooter I guess)
That dino torch generator was the best part of the level because it was original and memorable.
Your level should absolutely be centered around that generator. You would be remiss if you only used it once. Please try redesigning the level to work around that because I think that is exactly what this level needs.

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tenta
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Re: Level Clearing

Postby tenta » 6 years ago

Fixed parrot coins, dotted lines are a little more visible and replaced thwimps with a simple sawblade. (Pirhana plant)

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Re: Level Clearing

Postby limepie20 » 6 years ago

tenta:
Hey, I like the new color of the block outline. It's visible enough! The "used" block that appears when hitting the invisible block has a weird palette. Either make the whole thing yellow or blue because blue with a yellow outline is weird. Also, the watermelon triangle has an odd palette. The sides shouldn't be black. You still haven't removed the different colored coins. Just make them all the same color because a lot of the colors don't look right. The cement blocks next to one of the parrot coins still has an odd palette, too.
There are two parts that should be completely revised: the first being the P-switch run right after the midpoint and the second being the little puzzle thing after the p-switch run. The first p-switch run was just too unfair. It's single block jumping which is hard on it's own, but you have the slipperyness and the bullet bills to throw you off, too. Plus, the level's theme has nothing that suggests a p-switch run, so it also feels out of place. The second p-switch run is fine because it is a lot shorter and easier. It also doesn't feel as blatant of a p-switch run. I don't like the puzzle room because it also feels out of place. It is really easy, so it doesn't offer much challenge, but there are no puzzles in the rest of the level, so it just breaks away from the main theme and doesn't feel right. Please replace those two sections with something else.
Otherwise, the level design seemed pretty good.

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tenta
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Re: Level Clearing

Postby tenta » 6 years ago

For the odd color when you hit the invisible block, i can't do anything about it since it use the same palette as the dotted lines for some reasons :/
There are two feasible solutions:
1. Make the used block completely blue.
2. Make the lined block use a different palette and copy the one blue color to the same place in the other palette.
I didn't even made the puzzle section. A friend here in the forum made it when the level was too short. (He done it because i was out of idea)
That doesn't mean you are exempt from fixing it! It's your level.
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Septentrion Pleiades
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Re: Level Clearing

Postby Septentrion Pleiades » 6 years ago

http://www.mediafire.com/?ox6d6ktseakeb9f

Change munchers completely and redesigned the level based off the "spawner". The spawner is a issue because slowdown is sort of unavoidable, but the level feels quite unique at this point.
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Re: Level Clearing

Postby limepie20 » 6 years ago

Mr. Pleiades:
So the munchers are a cage, now? Was that an error because that doesn't feel right at all. Well, I feel like the level is a lot better and unique as you said with the dino torch shooters. Good job implementing them. I feel there are still only two problems remaining:
1. You still have many platforming sections with those super steep diamonds. You really have to take them out. They are unfair and unfun. Also, the level as a whole felt like it lacked a bit of challenge. My best suggestion to you would be to rely less on the flying koopa generators and the munchers. The munchers are stationary, so they aren't too bad and the koopa generators are random (unlike the dino torch shooter), so they are unpredictable. Rely more on regular enemies and place them strategically.
Good job; I think your level is really improving.

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Septentrion Pleiades
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Re: Level Clearing

Postby Septentrion Pleiades » 6 years ago

limepie20 wrote:Mr. Pleiades:
So the munchers are a cage, now? Was that an error because that doesn't feel right at all. Well, I feel like the level is a lot better and unique as you said with the dino torch shooters. Good job implementing them. I feel there are still only two problems remaining:
1. You still have many platforming sections with those super steep diamonds. You really have to take them out. They are unfair and unfun. Also, the level as a whole felt like it lacked a bit of challenge. My best suggestion to you would be to rely less on the flying koopa generators and the munchers. The munchers are stationary, so they aren't too bad and the koopa generators are random (unlike the dino torch shooter), so they are unpredictable. Rely more on regular enemies and place them strategically.
Good job; I think your level is really improving.
The munchers were redesigned to match the level's graphics.
The koopa generator can be replaced with manually place koopas.
I want to keep the diamonds because I find that I can reasonably navigate them myself. Would it be better if there were placed in more forgiving areas? I want to keep the last challenge while making sure the player is prepared for it.
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Re: Level Clearing

Postby limepie20 » 6 years ago

Those munchers look really weird. It doesn't feel right having them be cages.
Also, I'm sorry, but I really feel like those diamonds need to be changed. When playing the level, I feel like everything is fun and learnable, but those diamonds jab a spike in my mood, and that should be a sure indicator of whether something is reasonable and fun. They just feel unfair and I can't seem to learn them; success with them is random. Most importantly, they are not fun. They are tedious on their own, but the meticulous process of learning them tales the fun out of the level.
I can't say yes to these diamonds. There are so many ways to make challenges that are fair and fun, and that is what I expect out of levels.

Trying something else will improve your level greatly, and the experience of it will improve your level designing skills.

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tenta
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Re: Level Clearing

Postby tenta » 6 years ago

Destroyed the puzzle room and made something completely different, added monsters in the secret place to get the chest.

Fixed color problem with invisible blocks.

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Septentrion Pleiades
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Re: Level Clearing

Postby Septentrion Pleiades » 6 years ago

I made the harder parts involving the diamonds easier by adding breaks, and changed the muncher ever so slightly. The munchers are suppose to look like barbed wire.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?altzcr3a9u8lp47
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SyStemkraSh5642
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Re: Level Clearing

Postby SyStemkraSh5642 » 6 years ago

@ tenta:
I ran into more problems involving your level again. Please look these over.
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It doesn't seem right to have these bullets just shoot out of dirt like this.
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If you are fast enough, you can jump on the coin arrow while the P-Switch is active and get on the roof.
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Just a question: How are you supposed to get up here normally? I used a homing bullet bill, but I don't think you intended for that to be the solution...
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This corner tile is the wrong one.
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I'm currently standing on an invisible block. It was created because I hit the block under me while there was a coin above it. Remove the coin to fix this.
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It isn't possible to hit the next invisible coin block in sequence. It's too far out and the jump is too wide.
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You can get under the ground by going through the watermelon slice on the left side.
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On the midway point entrance, I was immediately hit by a homing bill.

Fix these issues and I'll review it again.
@ Septentrion Pleiades:
I only had one issue with your level, but it was a minor one. Image
At first, I thought this was a net tile until it hurt me.

Other than that, your switch palace sublevel is cleared.

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Re: Level Clearing

Postby limepie20 » 6 years ago

Oh Systemkrash did it first. I'll post these anyway.

tenta:
Do you think you can change the palette of the saws? They don't really look good just black and white. The cement block palette still needs to be changed though. You haven't removed the p-switch run after the midpoint either.
tenta_00000.png
How did those goombas get there?
The watermelon rinds should still be green!

Septentrion:
The muncher graphics don't look right. It seems like a graphical glitch to me. Please either get a new graphic or use the default ones. You need to change the graphic you used for the sprite only blocks because they look like green switch palace blocks and may confuse the player.
So I see that you decided to keep those diamonds in. Sorry Systemkrash, but I'm going to have to revoke your clearing. I don't oppose your judgement; I just want to understand these diamonds before the level is cleared.

So Mr. Pleaides, please explain again why you want to use the diamonds, so I can maybe understand a bit better, and be able to enjoy them.

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tenta
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Re: Level Clearing

Postby tenta » 6 years ago

limepie20 wrote:Oh Systemkrash did it first. I'll post these anyway.

tenta:
Do you think you can change the palette of the saws? They don't really look good just black and white. The cement block palette still needs to be changed though. You haven't removed the p-switch run after the midpoint either.
tenta_00000.png
How did those goombas get there?
The watermelon rinds should still be green!
The thing is that i never changed the color of the saws and the watermelon. The goombas up there is simple.
The only color i changed is the used blocks..nothing else.
Its monsters i added for the secret.
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Re: Level Clearing

Postby limepie20 » 6 years ago

Okay, but those still have bad palettes. Just go to page 2, 3, 4 or something and all the different colored saws are there. Choose the best. For the watermelon, just fix the palette with the palette editor. Change the edge from black to green.

Also, make sure you fix what Systemkrash said, too.

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tenta
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Re: Level Clearing

Postby tenta » 6 years ago

SyStemkraSh5642 wrote:@ tenta:
I ran into more problems involving your level again. Please look these over.
Image
It doesn't seem right to have these bullets just shoot out of dirt like this.
Image
If you are fast enough, you can jump on the coin arrow while the P-Switch is active and get on the roof.
Image
Just a question: How are you supposed to get up here normally? I used a homing bullet bill, but I don't think you intended for that to be the solution...
Image
This corner tile is the wrong one.
Image
I'm currently standing on an invisible block. It was created because I hit the block under me while there was a coin above it. Remove the coin to fix this.
Image
It isn't possible to hit the next invisible coin block in sequence. It's too far out and the jump is too wide.
Image
You can get under the ground by going through the watermelon slice on the left side.
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On the midway point entrance, I was immediately hit by a homing bill.

Fix these issues and I'll review it again.
[/spoiler]
That is a lot of things to fix..i will fix everything soon.
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Septentrion Pleiades
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Re: Level Clearing

Postby Septentrion Pleiades » 6 years ago

limepie20 wrote: Septentrion:
The muncher graphics don't look right. It seems like a graphical glitch to me. Please either get a new graphic or use the default ones. You need to change the graphic you used for the sprite only blocks because they look like green switch palace blocks and may confuse the player.
So I see that you decided to keep those diamonds in. Sorry Systemkrash, but I'm going to have to revoke your clearing. I don't oppose your judgement; I just want to understand these diamonds before the level is cleared.

So Mr. Pleaides, please explain again why you want to use the diamonds, so I can maybe understand a bit better, and be able to enjoy them.
I wanted munchers that fitted with the graphics. Now is see it's confusing for other people. I will replace them with the saws. I'll also try to make the solid to sprite box more intuitive(as if that's possible).
About the diamonds, I can't believe you find them that difficult. It's quite a unique form of platforming, but I thought I made it easy enough to not complain about. I've even put those 2 at the beginning so the player can practice.

You do have to constantly jump for the diamonds. You can either jump onto the sides or the top, and those affect the jump. Landing is important. To obtain the highest height you must run jump from the side.

Try getting all the coins at the beginning without falling down, and you'll get used to it.
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Re: Level Clearing

Postby limepie20 » 6 years ago

Septentrion Pleiades wrote:
About the diamonds, I can't believe you find them that difficult. It's quite a unique form of platforming, but I thought I made it easy enough to not complain about. I've even put those 2 at the beginning so the player can practice.

You do have to constantly jump for the diamonds. You can either jump onto the sides or the top, and those affect the jump. Landing is important. To obtain the highest height you must run jump from the side.

Try getting all the coins at the beginning without falling down, and you'll get used to it.
After hearing that, I might try the level again because you're right. It does sound interesting. Either way, I want you to consider these two questions:

It would be hard for a player to learn without being explicitly or implicitly taught, right?
There isn't room in your level to teach the player, right?

And this is where I believe the main problem arises: Theme clash.
When I first saw these diamonds in your level, I thought they were just unfair platforming segments, but you revealed that there is a lot to learn about them, and they are more of a main gimmick. You could teach the player about different ways of jumping off of those diamonds by setting up harmless platforming sections and having more variety than just jumping from one to another for a long period of time.

The problem is that there is no time to teach the player because the first half of the level is built around the dino torch spawner gimmick, not the diamond gimmick.
What do you think about that? Do you agree with any of this? I want to hear your thoughts.

I think the way you can make the best level possible is by choosing between the diamonds and dino torch spawners and design the entire level around that one gimmick. Remember, I like the spawners a lot while I think the diamonds are frustrating. You have many parts designed around the spawners already while you need more variety with your diamond design.


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