Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comments

[Wyatt]

Please test this and leave some feedback.

I like this level a lot! It's pretty hectic yet always fair. The only things I'd say to change:
-Fuzzy has bad palette
-The dragon coin in the pipe is hard to find, and the chest is easy to find. Switch em

[SyStemkraSh5642]

I like this level a lot! It's pretty hectic yet always fair. The only things I'd say to change:
-Fuzzy has bad palette
-The dragon coin in the pipe is hard to find, and the chest is easy to find. Switch em

- The Fuzzy seems to have the correct palette based on what the palette I've seen from the other levels.
- Sure, I'll switch them.

[Negative]

Well, Im back here. As my level is not ready to be cleared, that means there are some things that need to be changed, and I need help locating the problems. Critisize as much as you want. The main problem seems to be that the level design is too boring, so please point out the boring parts and please, please give me suggestions on what to do about them. The colours are most likely messed up for some other-worldly reason. Heres a little something.

That's weird. In fact it seemed that for some reason the custom palette didn't worked for me. So I copied the palette into the original palette and it work.

I have no idea how to fix that problem. If you have even a slight idea on how to fix it, please tell me.
http://www.smwcentral.net/?p=files&u=17962
Unnamed one on the bottom.

Yeah....PLEASE HELP!

[raocow]

You should probably link to a thing with everything you actually got done, to make this easier for peeps, man.

[anonymousbl00dlust]

The more I work on my level, the more bat-shit ridiculous it becomes.


My god this is fun.

[Septentrion Pleiades]

The more I work on my level, the more bat-shit ridiculous it becomes.


My god this is fun.

Could we get a isp preview? It seems like it's going to be a big level judging by you have claimed, so It might take a while to iron out all the issues.

Levels: 135
Sublevels: 1A5 0E3 0E4 1AA 1A7 1A9 1A8 1A6
Secondary Exits:
ExGfx: 0D6 0D5 0D3 0D4 0D2 0D1 1D5 1D7 1D6 1D8
Sprites: 49 4A 7E 7F 8E 8F 90 91 C7 D7 D8 D9 DA 4D 4F 4E
Music: 7C 8D 9F
Map16: 3A00-3AFF 7B00-7BFF 7A00-7AFF 3400-34FF 3900-39FF

[anonymousbl00dlust]

The more I work on my level, the more bat-shit ridiculous it becomes.


My god this is fun.

Could we get a isp preview? It seems like it's going to be a big level judging by you have claimed, so It might take a while to iron out all the issues.

Levels: 135
Sublevels: 1A5 0E3 0E4 1AA 1A7 1A9 1A8 1A6
Secondary Exits:
ExGfx: 0D6 0D5 0D3 0D4 0D2 0D1 1D5 1D7 1D6 1D8
Sprites: 49 4A 7E 7F 8E 8F 90 91 C7 D7 D8 D9 DA 4D 4F 4E
Music: 7C 8D 9F
Map16: 3A00-3AFF 7B00-7BFF 7A00-7AFF 3400-34FF 3900-39FF

I'm trying to get in contact with some special, private testers. Any public release is going to be after I'm totally finished. That being said, I'm probably going to release a 10-15 second clip of the toughest part to whomever is leading the colab at this point. You know, just to give them a general idea of what this beast is.

On another note, I'm running a bit thin on obstacle ideas right now. I want every piece of level to be innovative.
It might be a good idea to get help from some other level designers... however, the work would have to match my style. Offers have been sent to a few people, so we'll see how that turns out.

[Gwaur]

Well, Im back here. As my level is not ready to be cleared, that means there are some things that need to be changed, and I need help locating the problems. Critisize as much as you want. The main problem seems to be that the level design is too boring, so please point out the boring parts and please, please give me suggestions on what to do about them.

There's one good idea in your level, but you haven't been utilizing that idea as well as you could. That idea is the idea of having to get the attention of a Charlie in order to make the Charlie follow you and break blocks to make way. You've obviously tried to do things with that idea which of course is the correct direction, but haven't managed to really dig out all the potential that idea could have. (And I think it's a really nice idea, it has much potential. You just need to be creative.) If you do this, it might lead to large redesign of your level.

First of all, the first instance of this idea comes pretty late in the level (in screen 9). I'd say you should put it around screens 1 or 2, but not in 0. After that, instances should come quite a bit more often than they do in your level.

All the instances must be a bit different from each other somehow. They should gradually grow in length, number of Charlies and amount of blocks they have to break. The version in screen 9 is a good one for a first puzzle (it's practically a non-puzzle, so it's a nice introductory to the idea). The second instance could be the one you have in screen D, and third the one in screen A. The one in screens 15-16 if a nice fourth one since that demonstrates that these things could actually evolve into real puzzles. But you need more of them. Just put them one after another, and in between some minor basic platforming with other enemies coming at the player. Eventually these could grow into elaborate and complex puzzles. At some point you could start adding other enemies to the puzzles, to combine puzzling and platforming.

Also, the goal of individual Charlie puzzles should vary. Some could be solely for getting parrot coins or powerups and less necessary for just beating the level. One of them could be a very mindblowing puzzle for getting the treasure chest. But many of them, of course, must be vital in the beating of the level.

Remember that if you're going to do something like this, you'll quite possibly need reset doors/pipes. Also, the current version of your level lacks a lot of those helping coins that indicate where it is safe to jump, so don't forget to put those in, too. Just for the fun of it, I sketched a suggestion for a puzzle with this idea. Feel free to use this one, if you like my thoughts. :) (it's in the next spoiler box)

negative a2mt suggestion.png

[Septentrion Pleiades]

There are several things that should be changed

First this jump is quite a bit tedious, especially after 50 jumps(since there are no midpionts)

issue1.png

Secondly this door leads to an empty room of death.

issue2.png

Speaking of doors, there should be some way to tell the difference between the Reset and Continue Doors

About the mid-way pionts , if you could make a way to keep the powers after death it would be an innovated way of doing midpoints. It would be nice to have some shortcuts in the first puzzle room based on this since it is sort of boring.

Also the last puzzle Is really really frustrating. Is their some way to make it so the FOE doesn't despawn?

The last room is quite a narmy room. If you skip the finish point the doesn't look like a finish point, then you have a non working door

As for music I sort of felt like it was a this type of level: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86P7NT4sJfM

[Septentrion Pleiades]

Wyatt did a good job with the world 2 mariari port, but it doesn't fit quite as well with your level as the world 7 one. I assumed the world 2 port was the music you were talking about in the notes.txt, but apparently it was made for someone else. None of the songs I heard one the wiki really have the "world of puzzle" feel that the mariari tracks have.

Regarding the dead-ends: I'll look into them.

It wasn't "dead-ends", It was a door that lead to a "kill room"

[Septentrion Pleiades]

I forgot to mention that the old Dragon coins were in use and not new ones.

[yesimbill]

Alright then, As I promised, it's technically finished, as in I have something to present, today.
Here it is..

Err... Sorry about this, but I can't seem to upload the bitmap of the level...

[Septentrion Pleiades]

Alright then, As I promised, it's technically finished, as in I have something to present, today.
Here it is..

Err... Sorry about this, but I can't seem to upload the bitmap of the level...

Try to upload an isp. We can't really test a bitmap. I suppose you could just upload the level files.

[yesimbill]

I Tried to upload an ISP, as I realized the BMP was too big for it to let me upload. The ISP was also just barely over the upload limit, so I zipped it and tried to upload that, (Which was under the upload limit it was telling me I exceeded.) Suddenly my upload limit was now smaller, for some reason.

The world doesn't wish for me to succeed...

[raocow]

If it's that big of an issue, put it somewhere conveniant, like mediafire or smwcentral's service, or something.

[yesimbill]

Thank you for the idea raocow. I do such an excellent job showing off my lack of real blag-o-blag knowledge...

Hopefully there aren't further complications (Err... *Knocks on wood*):

http://www.mediafire.com/?b5anoul114p33v6

[Septentrion Pleiades]

I decided that it would be easier to make suggestions using a bitmap file.

Level135.png

First of all, Too many sprite. Most of the koopas do not spawn and it also interferes with the chest. You should remove some sprites and test your level to make sure everything spawns.

Also it is much too easy to fly over everything, and lakitu actually makes the level easier(especially with the infamous fireball glitch.) Try removing some balloons and make flying over everything less of an option. I think there is an invisible block you can use as a ceiling at the top of your level.

Also the secret goal is the goal most players will find first, so you need to make it more of a challenge. My own suggestion is to put the keyhole at the platform on screen 00, and place the key somewhere later(I suggest in the turn blocks you currently have).

The goal sprite wasn't placed, you should really test your level completely. Look at the entire bitmap, and some baserom custom music wouldn't hurt.

EDIT: You're probably are going to ask about the yoshi/parrot coins we use. All five can be found in level 105, screen 00. They do appear as 1x2 missingnos in lunar magic, and it's important you use each of them once.

[yesimbill]

Thank you for your comments, I'm very shocked by a number of them. For instance, I played this level completely, and I did indeed have a goal point, It uses the Parrot Coins, and I had no sprite limitations...

I will be reworking though, I never thought to fly over the whole level... and shall begin corrections at once!

[Septentrion Pleiades]

Thank you for your comments, I'm very shocked by a number of them. For instance, I played this level completely, and I did indeed have a goal point, It uses the Parrot Coins, and I had no sprite limitations...

I will be reworking though, I never thought to fly over the whole level... and shall begin corrections at once!

You probably uploaded an old version of your level, since these things you listed are easily spotted from lunar magic.

[Schnurmanator]

Here is Level 124, Nezumi's Farm.
It's just a level devoted to farming for lives. I hope you like it!


Link to IPS for Testing
---------------------------------------------------
bin.smwcentral.net/u/8017/farmland.ips
---------------------------------------------------

On the ips, level 124 is the second level down. The first level (yoshi house) that you start on is for getting coins. You will need 99 coins in order to use Nezumi's farm for life farming.

Giving input will be greatly appreciated, thanks.

[Diortem]

Just downloaded the level, I'll try to give you some feedback by tomorrow. Interesting title to begin with, that's for sure. :)

[Jesuiscontent]

Here is Level 124, Nezumi's Farm.
It's just a level devoted to farming for lives. I hope you like it!


Link to IPS for Testing
---------------------------------------------------
bin.smwcentral.net/u/8017/farmland.ips
---------------------------------------------------

On the ips, level 124 is the second level down. The first level (yoshi house) that you start on is for getting coins. You will need 99 coins in order to use Nezumi's farm for life farming.

Giving input will be greatly appreciated, thanks.

Really fun theme, I liked it. I didn't really see any flaws execpt perhaps for one thing, in the 3rd room it took me 3 deaths to realise that there was a silver P-switch before the entrance, I thought I was supposed to bounce on the ennemies but instead I massacered myself by running right into them. I'll admit, the wording in the textbox implies there's several P-switches and I didn't really pay attention at first, but still, I'll suggest making the silver P stand out a bit more.

Now maybe it's just me but I think "only" three life-farming styles is somewhat lackluster, I was expecting a room exploiting the star, or bouncing on a long chain of ennemies. For example you could make something with the Torpedo Teds like some other game did (Scarlet Devil Mario I think?), giving the player a star and they can knock off Torpedo Teds indefinitely.
Or, using the same technology as your boost thing in the 3rd room, you could make demo bounce on a long chain of ennemies in a "automatic level" fashion.
Also I was thinking of a room full of bullet bill shooters that would instead shoot 1ups or 3up moons.
I know almost nothing of ASM so I don't know if that would be too complicated/require too much effort, so yeah. Just putting some ideas out there !

Oh also about the necessary 99 coins, I think it's more tedious than anything, especially with the coins at the beginning that brought me to 0 coins several times If I were you, I would either delete the coins at the beginning or lower the coin requirement. But don't remove it, that cow is awesome

[Schnurmanator]

Really fun theme, I liked it. I didn't really see any flaws execpt perhaps for one thing, in the 3rd room it took me 3 deaths to realise that there was a silver P-switch before the entrance, I thought I was supposed to bounce on the ennemies but instead I massacered myself by running right into them. I'll admit, the wording in the textbox implies there's several P-switches and I didn't really pay attention at first, but still, I'll suggest making the silver P stand out a bit more.

Yeah, I don't really know what I was thinking about this room. I kinda ran out of ideas for life farming in SMW.

Now maybe it's just me but I think "only" three life-farming styles is somewhat lackluster, I was expecting a room exploiting the star, or bouncing on a long chain of ennemies. For example you could make something with the Torpedo Teds like some other game did (Scarlet Devil Mario I think?), giving the player a star and they can knock off Torpedo Teds indefinitely.
Or, using the same technology as your boost thing in the 3rd room, you could make demo bounce on a long chain of ennemies in a "automatic level" fashion.
Also I was thinking of a room full of bullet bill shooters that would instead shoot 1ups or 3up moons.
I know almost nothing of ASM so I don't know if that would be too complicated/require too much effort, so yeah. Just putting some ideas out there !

Dude. A torpedo ted room would be Legen...wait for it...dary! Legendary! And the 3up/1up shooter is an interesting idea that I might look into.

Oh also about the necessary 99 coins, I think it's more tedious than anything, especially with the coins at the beginning that brought me to 0 coins several times If I were you, I would either delete the coins at the beginning or lower the coin requirement. But don't remove it, that cow is awesome

And I also think 99 coins might be a bit excessive. How does 50 coins sound instead?

And thanks for the feed back Jesuiscontent! :D
I really appreciate it!

[Septentrion Pleiades]

Have you considered implementing any of the color switches? I think a simple improvement would be requiring switches to enter some games. It would mean that the player would be able to go,"oh, I just pressed a switch, lets see what I unlocked back at that one place."

Also I think the cow in the zoom room has a bad sentence, "you know side exits is enabled". Requires hacking knowledge, and breaks the forth wall in a bad way. Maybe it's best to allow exits on both sides of the level, with exit signs.

[Diortem]

I agree with Septentrion and Jesuiscontent. Using the switches would be better than to use 99 coins which is kinda tedious.

At first I didn't quite understand the level as I was expecting something different, but considering this is more or less a bonus level I like your setup. There's several more things you could do:

-Rope/underwater bill shooters (they can easily let you rack up lives)
-Starman running (reminds me of that underwater star world level)
-The 1,2,3,4 1-up checkpoints

Here's a vid showing off some other interesting methods (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D74qHOjuVw) although some are pretty much insane.

-Bouncing on enemies in other setups like Rexes with a Cape (the bullet bill shooters subarea put you in immediate danger, I'd would recommend moving Demo's starting point out of the line of fire)
-Using the P-balloon to keep bouncing on the shell

With a little hacking you could even make a mini-game out of it. E.g. several subrooms that require you to get a certain amount of lives before continuing on to the next one. Ah well, I don't think that was your intention here. :D

Lastly, the last section has way too many sprites next to each other. You can only have like up to 8 Koopas/Goopas on the screen, and there's signficantly more there, which results in spawn issues. Either spread the area out a bit or remove a few.