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Let's wrangle them levels, yo

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limepie20
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by limepie20 »

Yeah the next baserom will actually have a lot of new levels.
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Paralars
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by Paralars »

Now
let's achieve some of what raocow calls momentum!

Overworld.
I have already made suggestions for 5 of 10 worlds.
We have been offered support with actually building the overworld and I thought about it a bit.
On my suggested plan, the main overworld consists of a hub world, the final world, a beach world and an island with sky levels.
So these will have to be made with an overworld top-down view tileset, that can fit these 4 worlds into the main overworld.
The remaining 6 submaps would then be the remaining worlds. As far as I got it, it's feasible to make these as simple landscape drawings with levels and paths on them, so there is no need to make a usable tileset for these, that's good.

Those would be an underground world (easy), a fortress world (hard), a mountain world (easy), an abstract world (hard) - and respectively one other easy and a hard world of whatever theme is fine.

So, the levels I already arranged are as follows:
Mountains (contains Lava, Ice, Rocks) EASY

down to green
smouldering stones
farenheit something
the great pit
no secret exit here
chilly ice cave
[placeholderly, former magical lava zone]
[placeholder, formerly betrayal rock]


Underground Dome (contains Jungle, Water, Cave stuff, Stars) EASY

calm forest
Demo's hydrophobia
demo kong country
undermoore passage
moonlit mountain
dancign with shells
[placeholder, something to unlock 2 paths]


Concrete Beach (contains sand, water, buildings, grassland) EASY

p-switch beach
goofy grotto
a beach
starlight resort
deja vu
happy lake
flooded village


Blue Island (contains blue land, clouds, a forest) HARD

sky caslte west
THUMP
skythorn valley
cumulonimbastille
violet velocity
air arena
A layer 2 romp
mad science laboratory
woodchuck woods


Fortress World (contains a forest, a river, buildings) HARD

unpleasant intruder
deadly ninja assassin squad
crazed crayon combat
manion of onoffness
the meaning of sharp
forest fever
dairy disaster
sodium fortrate
hey there sewage castle
This means the remaining levels (minus Franky's, Alex's, tenta's and a few I might be missing) are these:
super vehicle 00C onwards to moscow
- rusty train/vehicle thing, metal slug style, somewhat medium hard
further over there
- forest blending into abstract environment, raocow-created difficulty
betrayal rock
- monochrome mountain/woods with abstract environment, raocow
Where am I?
- starts in a cave, ends in some palace, medium difficulty
Mail delivery
- Frozen cave, medium-light difficulty (+ ice physics), could fit into mountain world
Intertwined plains
- Very basic, chilling level, grassland, very easy, could fit into hub world
Running like clockwork
- engine room, steamy mechanical style, above-average difficulty
Magical Lava zone
- Lava Cave, somewhat easy
A Menagerie in glass
- Intro Level?
So Close, yet so...
- Open grasslands, medium difficulty
Light and darkness
- abstract
LBS
- abstract, with a monochrome grasslands secret path
verdant varmit
- Green Hill Zone style with vanilla graphics, easy
forest of realism
- Sunny forest, easy
Thwomp garden
- NSMB 1-1 style, with thwomps, basic-easy difficulty
A stroll under the stars
- Tails style, grass and rocks, nighttime, basic difficulty, could fit into hub world
Sagan Leagues above the surface
- Castle theme blending into space theme, somewhat abstract, medium difficulty
A.D.D.
- abstractly transitioning grassland-cave-fortress theme, below-average difficulty
Dark side of the moon
- abstract, dark and glowy
Level of ghosts and slippery floors
- Fortress/Palace/Temple with frozen walls and floors, medium difficulty
tangled grounds
- Grassy, plants, landmasses. Relatively easy
coin town USA
- grasslands tileset with somewhat special palette, quite easy
aerial athletics
- aerial, very colorful, reminds me of lego. slightly hard
painting the treehouse
- Forest, Art. very easy.
Multi-tier hillside
- grasslands and hills, quite easy, could fit hub world
P.key's Mansion
- Ghost house with water, medium difficulty
block fort
- mostly abstract, above-average difficulty
demo's wondrous pitfall
- pitfall themed, abstract to some extent, difficult
The tournament
- grassland, some hills and holes. slightly hard
agie's level
- vip reference, grassy hills, easy
I need a P
- abstract, broken reality, medium difficulty puzzle level
Wrathful romp
- ????
Adamantium Castle
- ????
I added some comments about themes (possible spoiler) and difficulty for each level.
Feel free to make objection to my subjective and limited judgements
Now SOMEONE (namely all us guys, c'mon) should try and group those into
- abstract world
- another easy world (--> will get a theme)
- another hard world (--> will get a theme)
- hub world, should have quite a few to fill up the space on the main overworld
- world 9, doesn't need to have that many
- post-game/special world (those with inhumane difficulty especially)
- or one of the existing worlds, try to maintain balance in level count

Groups should match as far as possible in difficulty and in SOME wierd incomprehensible way, result in a theme for that world, for example
- grasslands with some water levels, a fortress or two and some sky level
It really doesn't have to be a strict theme.
Just try to imagine what the world could look like with these levels.

The easier, more basic and "vanillic" levels should go into the hub obviously.


And beyond grouping them, they need to be put to an order to make an OW path, with secondary exits and what not.


Now, no need to go all "hey, that's so much work I'll do that later maybe".
I'm just trying to provide everything necessary to put the levels together in a sensible way and create some momentum out of this idle, anyone can help.

If nobody does anything, I'll do all of it. But it will take more time obviously and might not be as good
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raocow
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by raocow »

Paralars wrote:Now

If nobody does anything, I'll do all of it. But it will take more time obviously and might not be as good
You say this, but your prior maps were pretty dang surprising and neat.
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Paralars
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by Paralars »

but I feel bad doing all of this, I don't know ALL of the levels in this collab and I feel like I'd do some of the levels injustice by putting them somewhere I'm not sure of.
Some other people know other levels better, and this is a collab after all.
Why not give everyone the chance to contribute to this when it's actually not that much work?
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raocow
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by raocow »

Oh, I know, I know, it would be BETTER if other people helped organise this, definitely. But I'm just saying that if push comes to shove, it wouldn't be like disastrous.
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AUS
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by AUS »

Just believe hard enough.
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Paralars
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by Paralars »

alright, here is a concept for abstract world.
I imagined it like different objects floating through some space-like environment.

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/2015/abstractqn.png

Just imagine the background somewhat dark and filled with stars or other stuff.

Sorry if I'm making a lot of hubbub, I'm trying to be useful.
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by limepie20 »

I don't really consider A.D.D. as abstract. I think it would fit better under a normal grassland world or something of that sort (if we have a world like that). But if the difficulty matches, I guess it could go under there.
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raocow
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by raocow »

Maybe 'abstract world' could have a sort of... 'reality ledge', just on the side, a sort of greeting/transition. Like, essentially, the world would start with that one, although then it becomes tricky with the organisation of the worlds themselves, since I like the whole 'equal path seperation' going on. Hmm..
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by AUS »

Then just switch the position of ADD and LBS.
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raocow
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by raocow »

From what I can see, ADD and LBS don't have the same number of exits.
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by AUS »

I'm sure we could totally fix that with magic.
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by Jesuiscontent »

I remember someone said at some point we could use the multi-pathway thing from vip5 to add paths to single-exit levels? Wouldn't that work here?

Also just wanted so say Paralars I find your overworld maps just amazing

e : actually as I remembered it was raocow in this very thread haha
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Paralars
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by Paralars »

sure, no problem in having a "yellow" level with 2 unlocked paths, but when a level does have 2 exits, it'd be kinda stupid to have the one path just lead into nothing.

And there is no problem with making a reality corner or something, this is a submap after all, so it won't clash with any other world.
abstract2.png
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by AUS »

what
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raocow
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by raocow »

If we go that it starts with ADD and that Sagan leads to Block Fort, and that Block Fort now leads to the Moon, we could use LBS' secret exit to lead to another submap, as a sort of alternate way of going around or something?

edit - it just struck me, a million years later, how appropriate it would be for a level called 'ADD' to split path from a single exit.
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limepie20
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by limepie20 »

raocow wrote:edit - it just struck me, a million years later, how appropriate it would be for a level called 'ADD' to split path from a single exit.
Haha, I like the idea.
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Paralars
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by Paralars »

would this be better? (P leads to betrayal rock)
words.PNG
Sagan just has to lead to the Moon, it's... it's perfect with the levels' content!
Last edited by Paralars 12 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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raocow
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by raocow »

Seems fine with me!
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Paralars
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by Paralars »

Oh man..
I tried actually making one of the maps in Lunar Magic, so I took the cave jungle thingy and completely redrew it in a 16-color palette in the right format (256 x 176).

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/1649/cavejungle.png

I put that into YYCHR, which exceptionally worked without problems, then I wanted to build an overworld map out of it, then I noticed how complicated that is and how many but's and except's Lunar Magic has with that.

I couldn't remove the animated tiles that overwrite some space in the 8x8 editor, I couldn't find any 'invisible' path or level tiles and most importantly I noticed that the ExGFX files you can do overworlds with only go from 80-FF, which are all used.
I never made a custom overworld and I didn't know that it was infinitely more complicated than everything else.
So, basically, I don't know how to do this. (turn drawings into submaps).
I know it's possible, because I've seen other people do it, but I'm stomped for now, which may also be due to the fact that I've been working on this all day...
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by limepie20 »

I really like how that looks. If we can put it into the overworld, that would be great.
I have very little experience with overworld and really don't know how this works at all either. Nut I'm sure there's someone here that does.
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raocow
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by raocow »

Oh wow, I didn't expect the result to be so nice.

Hmm, the exgfx thing is really, REALLY unfortunate, I have to say, though. Unless someone is willing to do some pretty hardcore remixing of existing ressources.
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by S.N.N. »

Paralars wrote:I couldn't find any 'invisible' path or level tiles and most importantly I noticed that the ExGFX files you can do overworlds with only go from 80-FF, which are all used.
Get whoever is running it now (SyStemkraSh) to free up these slots by adjusting the ExGFX file names (eg. changing ExGFXA0.bin to ExGFX456.bin, or some other random value). From there, he can change the ExGFX files used in the levels themselves via the Super GFX Bypass option. This is a really easy fix and there is no reason why it can't be done to accommodate overworld ExGFX.

That "hardcore remixing" would likely take 2-3 hours tops, which, in ROM hacking terms, isn't much time at all.
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by raocow »

Well, if it's that easy a thing, I'm willing to 'draw' one submap that is fully designed, if someone is willing to take my drawing and 'adapt' it to the game.

Or would it be better that everything has a similare style?
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Paralars
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by Paralars »

I was actually going to ask you to draw one :mrgreen:
(because I'm slow at this)

And I was actually going to ask systemkrash to move these exgfx files because I thought it wasn't that much work, I had to do that with my own levels' ExGFX files a few times and we only need like
20,25 exGFX.

But first I'll have to see if I manage to puzzle these 704 tiny tiles, that I stuffed into 3 ExGFX files as space-saving as possible, together and rebuild that image the way it's supposed to be.
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