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Let's wrangle them levels, yo

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Paralars
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by Paralars »

The ow editor tells me there are some 32x22 submaps and some 32x21 submaps, in 8x8 tiles.

That would be 256x176 or 256x168 pixels.
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raocow
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by raocow »

I'm so tired instead of going to sleep I did this
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level - some endgame level
farm - that life farming level
ball in the middle - 'bowser's castle'
F.O.T. - further over there
Credit - the credit level being worked on right now
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limepie20
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by limepie20 »

I think I like the fact that it's an eye out of nowhere.
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Wyatt
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by Wyatt »

I don't like F.O.T. being definite postgame, we should give nezumi's farm an exit (crazy hidden like the green storehouse in vip4) and have that lead to it.

The OW art is goddamn gorgeous though.
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Paralars
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by Paralars »

That's so...
classy, I love it :mrgreen:

I think the "level" could be "so close, yet so...", it's not the hardest level in the game, but it's one of those levels that turns out to be more intense than it looks at first.
(And that together with its name and its OW location would be a funny tease)
It also has a secret exit that could lead to the life farm.

But maybe one of the level knower guys thinks there should be a more difficult one there?
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raocow
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by raocow »

I have no idea what I'm doing. As in, I have no idea if this could get tiled/if there would be palette issues. Actually this is also true for my 'last map' idea. Anyone wants to take a risk at this?

Abstract town.
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ADD, split path to either LBS or Block Fort (this one should probably have a smw fortress level graphic pop up), both join at Sagan, goes to Darkside of the Moon, split to either Need to P / Light and Dark, both join at Betrayal Rock.
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limepie20
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by limepie20 »

Once again, it looks great. I sure hope there aren't palette issues.
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raocow
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by raocow »

Any other maps I could do in an impossible to tile way, Paralars? I don't mind 'drawing' them if you don't mind, ah, 'adapting them' into smw.

mind you, if you do it'd be super helpful if you also linked to the actual real level content and order to it too. That information is spread kind of all over the place, haha~
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Paralars
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by Paralars »

That's reaaaally nice, it also looks a lot like I was imagining it.

About the being able to tile it.. ness,
the eyeball one would probably work because it has a lot of whitespace, so I can just use the same tile over and over to fill up the map.
The abstract one also has big areas of one color, so it should be doable as is, or with some minor adjustments.
Palettes are not really a big problem, because every submap has like 4 unique palettes with 15 colors each and every 8x8 tile can use any palette.

Like, in the mountain thing I made, I tried to actually make it from a small tileset so that puzzling it together in LM would be simple.
With your "free style" drawings I'll just have to copy all unique tiles into yychr and then find them in LM and put them back together in correct position, which is gonna be more work in LM but it's easier to draw.
And in the underground map I just had no idea what I was doing and tried a bit of both and it was a lot of work on both ends.

I've never actually made overworld stuff like that and I'm virtually learning it as we're making this, but I'm glad it's working out.


About the other maps, one is going to be the castle/houses/forest map and for the other one I was thinking of an icy landscape with some constructs and a starry night background.
I already changed the level order I posted with the excel sheet a bit and I was kinda confident with it, but I squeezed in every new level into a path, which led to
- the maps having like 10-11 levels each
- there being no dragon coin side levels
just because I wasn't sure if those coin purchased paths are gonna be doable. :roll:

I guess I'll change it again so that a few levels are spared and serve as "dragon coin extra content"
and then post the level orders with detailled descriptions.
Just wait until tomorrow(?) and then I'll have a plan for these two maps.
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raocow
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by raocow »

not gonna lie, your quick little ms-paint doodle helped me a lot in visualing this, so if you could do that, just to give me something of a 'blueprint', I can do the art for the remaining submaps if you'll tile them afterwards.
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by yoshicookiezeus »

Paralars wrote:Palettes are not really a big problem, because every submap has like 4 unique palettes with 15 colors each and every 8x8 tile can use any palette.
As long as you disable the event tile fade-in effect (Overworld -> Extra Options), you can actually use all eight object palettes for the overworld, which might be useful. Given how the current maps look, I'm assuming you aren't going to use normal layer 2 events anyway?
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by Paralars »

I wasn't even thinking about the layer 2 events. I guess we could just refrain from using them for the submaps at all, giving them this static "art" notion.
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by raocow »

We can just make the levels 'pop' when they're unlocked, and otherwise maybe we could use those side-arrows to indicate paths like in, say, axemjynx's hack.
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Paralars
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by Paralars »

that's what I was thinking, make the path tiles invisible and use these arrow OW sprites from the OWspritetool on SMWC I have no idea how to use.
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by Diortem »

Paralars wrote: I think the "level" could be "so close, yet so...", it's not the hardest level in the game, but it's one of those levels that turns out to be more intense than it looks at first.
(And that together with its name and its OW location would be a funny tease)
It also has a secret exit that could lead to the life farm.
That's exactly want I was trying to make with that level. Thanks for recognizing it. :)

I'm not sure whether you want to have it in the second to last spot. It wasn't designed for endgame difficulty, although some sections are pretty devious. I could still do some 'reverse'-editing to crank it up a notch, cause the level was harder at some point before I put it in the testing forums.

Btw. raocow that new avatar is a lot better for my eye(s). Xd
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Paralars
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by Paralars »

I fully agree... :roll:

I actually think you shouldn't be obligated to change your level afterwards (well, do what you want), even if it's too easy, there still are difficult levels just before every switch palace you have to get to and a moderately hard second to last level can easily serve as the "calm before the storm" level.
Actually, the only reason I'm a bit worried is because I'm somehow responsible now and I don't want to repeat the asmt difficulty curve -thing.
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by Diortem »

It doesn't feel like an obligation to me. :)

Just another idea: If we're going to scrap the sibling boss fights, I could also reuse some of the technology/asm that I started with for Garish for changing the normal exit into a custom boss. The MMP could help me here with placing a save point on the last regular screen where the exit currently is.
A boss based on the goal tape could be very appropriate for the level it is in.
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by swirlybomb »

(hello i am slow on the uptake)

Huh, Nezumi's Farm is right at the endgame? Somehow I was under the impression that it would be available earlier on, for the sake of avoiding having to get game overs because they're annoying or something.

Those maps look pretty stellar, by the way.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Wyatt
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by Wyatt »

swirlybomb wrote:Huh, Nezumi's Farm is right at the endgame?
This post actually gave me an idea: it'd be cool if Nezumi's Farm could be unlocked after completing enough switch palaces. You'd be able to unlock it as an alternate exit from the parrot house. This would give it more of a purpose, i.e. if someone gets stuck on a world, they can go beat some other worlds first, then they'll get the life farm to make things easier.

I messed around in LM for a bit and made this test thing. You need to have beaten at least 2 switch palaces to reach the exit.

EDIT: Swirly, we want it to be late in the game because we want lives to matter for most of the game. Also don't forget that there'll be autosaves after each level, so gameovers won't send you back very far.
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Paralars
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by Paralars »

Wyatt:
I don't really think having more lives will make levels much easier if you can't beat them and removing the life challenge this early might be a little too much.

Diortem:
Well, if it's something you'd like to do, you can change your level a bit and maybe add a boss.
An interesting idea we've had for VideoGuy's level, the race against the rolling goal sphere, was to make an actual small boss fight with the sphere, similar to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck-s8OVtD7g
It would fit your level's spirit.

I think we're gonna stick with your level's position now, so making it harder wouldn't mess anything up, but in my opinion it doesn't NEED to be harder.
Do as you please.
submaps stuff:
For one submap, I imagined a polar night environment because we did have some icy levels in the end.
Level names in black, annotations in colour.
tundra.gif
Running like clockwork could be unlocked as a bonus (dragon coins) and be a shortcut from "skyway to wonderland" to adamantium castle.
The other one would be the one with all the fortresses.
level names are underlined
civilisation.gif
This "map" might be a bit hard to see through, haha.
raocow, if you're gonna draw these, remember that one of them should be 256x176
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

"Time will hide your way" has two exits. I suggested in the submission thread(or readme.txt) that the secret one should lead down to a probably to a cave/lava area. It is a very challenging secret also.
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Paralars
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by Paralars »

What's up with all these double exit levels suddenly?
Well, I guess we can just switch Skyway to Wonderland and Time Will Hide Your Way and then make the path to Running Like Clockwork the secret exit one.
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by raocow »

I can do these, though y'all might have to wait until this weekend!
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by S.N.N. »

Ah, so there is an ice map after all.

I guess I'll have to port that track I made for it two years ago and send off the TXT to Wyatt (or whoever is dealing with music now, I don't even know anymore).
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Re: Let's wrangle them levels, yo

Post by swirlybomb »

Wyatt wrote:EDIT: Swirly, we want it to be late in the game because we want lives to matter for most of the game. Also don't forget that there'll be autosaves after each level, so gameovers won't send you back very far.
Right, I can understand the reasoning behind that. I was just confused due to an assumption, I suppose.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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