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Level Finalization/QA List (Tweaking of Inserted Levels)

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limepie20
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by limepie20 »

MrDeePay wrote: Flooded Village:
- Tile behavior is absolutely nuts and makes the level more annoying to play through than it should. It also makes the level impossible to beat.
- Music breaks on accurate emulators (Snes9x + bsnes). If you insist on using the SMW cave music, just use the AM4 friendly version on SMWC.
Tile behavior is fixed.
Oh there is an AM4 friendly version? I've been meaning to insert it. The only thing I found was one in the music section by GlitchMr. Is that it?
limepie20
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by limepie20 »

MrDeePay wrote:Aerial Athletics:- Colors 8 & 18 are miscolored in accordance to the sky gradient.
- The timing to get on the bronze pipe at screen 06-07 on level 3F is a little pesky.
- The giant gate's blue bar is miscolored.
Fixed the stuff.
- I'm surprised a Systemkrash-only level wasn't Mushrooms only. *cough*
What.
MrDeePay
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by MrDeePay »

limepie20 wrote: Oh there is an AM4 friendly version? I've been meaning to insert it. The only thing I found was one in the music section by GlitchMr. Is that it?
http://www.smwcentral.net/download.php? ... type=music
Yes, that's the one.
What.
It's just a side comment, so you can ignore it.
Septentrion Pleiades
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

Diortem wrote:Second spot? What are you talking about? chestdata.txt doesn't spell out level 003, thus it's empty. It's as clear as that.
I was talking about the normal message box sprite and not the chest.
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limepie20
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by limepie20 »

MrDeePay wrote:Land of Illusions:
- SMWCP2 has a boat segment built in the same fashion as this level's, but the surface of the boat are actually custom blocks that move the player at the same speed of the screen's scrolling. What I'm saying here is that Komachi's boat should be the same so the player won't always have to readjust their placement while on the ride.
I'd love to know where I can find/if I can have this block.
Thwomp Ahoy!:
Fixed.
Air Arena:
You are completely right. I am going to have to think about what I want to do with this level.
Septentrion Pleiades
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

limepie20 wrote:
MrDeePay wrote:
Air Arena:
You are completely right. I am going to have to think about what I want to do with this level.
I wouldn't mind dredging that level, after my current level gets cleared. Is the author still reachable?
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limepie20
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by limepie20 »

The author is Cmbheadquarters. Try contacting him through PMs.
Cup
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by Cup »

I was actually using conveyor blocks to counteract the scrolling when I first started making the level, but I had to choose between the slower scroll or using the block. The only way I could think to get a scroll slow enough for the level to play the way I wanted it to was to only run the code every other frame, per kil's suggestion. It's hardly noticeable as it is, but if you use a block to counter it, the player is constantly buzzing and it looks pretty terrible!

I didn't pursue it any further because scrolling the screen that slowly a different way is beyond my asm knowledge, and secondly I don't think it would dramatically improve the level. It'd change the gameplay a lot sure, but I don't necessarily think for the better since having to adjust to the wonky scrolling is what I find makes the interaction with the boos interesting.

It's out of my hands at this point, so you're welcome to try to make it work if you want, but wonky layer two physics is not something I worry much about in a hack, and in this case it has a job to do (namely to make boos more unique).
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Argumentable
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by Argumentable »

Are we talking about the block that you can set the speed to
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MrDeePay
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by MrDeePay »

Cup wrote:I was actually using conveyor blocks to counteract the scrolling when I first started making the level, but I had to choose between the slower scroll or using the block. The only way I could think to get a scroll slow enough for the level to play the way I wanted it to was to only run the code every other frame, per kil's suggestion. It's hardly noticeable as it is, but if you use a block to counter it, the player is constantly buzzing and it looks pretty terrible!
http://dpsiko.miquelfire.com/_hack/MOVE3.BIN - Insert this with BTSD (or ask someone to convert this to ASM then convert it) and make Komachi's boat tiles behave like whatever tile number you set it to. And I'd rather a "jittering player" "bug" than having for the player constantly reposition themselves on a boat that shouldn't be pushing them off for no reason whatsoever.

The player "jittering around" if they stand on the corners is going to be among the least of this hack's problems.
I didn't pursue it any further because scrolling the screen that slowly a different way is beyond my asm knowledge,
Then ask someone else about it.
and secondly I don't think it would dramatically improve the level. It'd change the gameplay a lot sure, but I don't necessarily think for the better since having to adjust to the wonky scrolling is what I find makes the interaction with the boos interesting.
...
Not needing to constantly readjust your position in a situation where you shouldn't need to in the first place (ie: a boat) is a good thing. And designer intention and actual execution/end result are not the same.
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by Cup »

It's not just jittering if they stand on the corner! If the player stands anywhere on the boat, the player is constantly buzzing back and forth a pixel because the bg scroll is only ran once every other frame. It's hard to even look at Demo without getting a headache! It's bad...

Anyway, as I said, I was already using that block. It's not a new suggestion. I decided not to implement it because it causes those graphical issues and in my opinion makes the level a bit more boring. My recommendation would be to leave it out for this level, but that's only a recommendation. It's up to anyone if they want to implement it. Again though, wonky layer two physics has never bugged me. Applying that kind of logic to a Mario game (munchers/spikes not harming you from the sides, how a boat works, etc) kind of ruins the charm of a hack. It is a hack remember! I don't play it for the same reasons I play New Super Mario Bros (which has its own share of unintuitive quirks).

Again, just my opinion, and my recommendation. If you do want to fix it though, you'll probably have to reprogram the scrolling.
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by MrDeePay »

Cup wrote:It's not just jittering if they stand on the corner! If the player stands anywhere on the boat, the player is constantly buzzing back and forth a pixel because the bg scroll is only ran once every other frame. It's hard to even look at Demo without getting a headache! It's bad...

Anyway, as I said, I was already using that block. It's not a new suggestion. I decided not to implement it because it causes those graphical issues
I'd rather a block that fixes a gameplay issue at the cost of a minor technical error than be left as-is, having to deal with a gameplay annoyance the hack/level author didn't bother to compensate for due to some dinky reason.
and in my opinion makes the level a bit more boring.
Sounds to me you're just being too lazy to compensate and rework the second to be "not so boring in your opinion". Designer intention and actual execution/end result are not the same. That's why mutliple people should test out your work.

Oh and give Tourou Temple a whirl sometime.
Applying that kind of logic to a Mario game (munchers/spikes not harming you from the sides, how a boat works, etc) kind of ruins the charm of a hack.
No, not really. That "charm" is purely psychological.
It is a hack remember! I don't play it for the same reasons I play New Super Mario Bros (which has its own share of unintuitive quirks).
Just because it's a hack doesn't mean that it's immune to general standard.
Ometeotl
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by Ometeotl »

MrDeePay wrote:And I'd rather a "jittering player" "bug" than having for the player constantly reposition themselves on a boat that shouldn't be pushing them off for no reason whatsoever.
Wind and general air resistance. Boom, problem solved.
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by MrDeePay »

Now explain when the player isn't being pushed around while in the air. That's just nothing more than being too lazy to fix something very easily. It won't take anyone more than three minutes to do.
limepie20
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by limepie20 »

Can't we just make the block only push mario every other frame instead of every frame? Or do I not understand the problem.
SyStemkraSh5642
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by SyStemkraSh5642 »

Sorry to change the topic a bit, but it has to do with Mad Science Laboratory. In a certain portion of the level, Demo had to race with a right-moving Thwomp, then spin-jump off of it. However, the problem was that for some reason after insertion, the Thwomp would always catch up to Demo. I've been experimenting, and I think I found the problem.
These are two videos explaining what's going on.
Before insertion
After insertion
Basically, the Thwomp is able to catch up to Demo because it's started interacting with the boost blocks the player uses. I think the problem is in the Thwomp's sprite code, but I don't really know the solution for this since I am hopeless when it comes to ASM.

Other than that:
Sublevel 1BF crashes because the song was removed; it used a removed sample bank
EDIT: 1C6's background is fixed
Lakitrouble in the Lakitundra was fixed
Moonlit Mountain's secondary exits are fixed
Phase Out's sublevel 7E's entrance was fixed
EDIT: 1C6's glitchy fireball graphics are fixed
EDIT: 161's music is fixed
EDIT: 124's graphics/Map16 are fixed
MrDeePay wrote:- I'm surprised a Systemkrash-only level wasn't Mushrooms only. *cough*
Don't worry, I made this level before my "inherent fear of tier 2 power-ups".
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by Frozelar »

Hmm, wait a minute. Now that I think about it, since the switch palaces are going to be in the order of half a level, then the switch selection room, then another level half, then the switch room (right?), should I have included a midpoint in the switch selection room?
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by raocow »

.. yes.
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Frozelar
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by Frozelar »

Oh, welp. Hah. Thanks raocow.

... fixing it.
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Isocitration
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by Isocitration »

So about a year ago, agie777 requested a steak graphic to use as a banzai bill replacement for his level "Dodge the Beefsteak". The request was acknowledged and MoneyMan did come up with this:
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However, the steak was never actually put together in an ExGFX file and the level still has regular banzai bills. So I decided to make that ExGFX file myself last night:
beef.zip
(1.87 KiB) Downloaded 90 times
An ExGFX page needs to be claimed for this. If you want, you can put it under my name. Any page will do.

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As you can see, the current banzai bill palette in Dodge the Beefsteak makes it appear much more raw than MoneyMan's original. I'm not sure if this is intended, but if it needs to be changed just make it so palette 9 looks exactly like palette 8.

One more thing...
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That's how the steak will appear once you insert the ExGFX. There's an easy fix though.

In a hex editor, change:

Offset 157DE from 33 to B3
Offset 157DF from 33 to B3

This will vertically flip the 11th and 12th 16x16 tiles that make up the banzai bill. This has no visible effect on the default A2MT banzai bills, as those tiles are perfectly mirrored when flipped. (I can't say the same for any alternate banzai bills, but there doesn't seem to be any others anyway)


Oh and if you're making hex edits... there's a really minor thing in one of my levels that I noticed. By default in SMW, one of the corners of the floating spike balls (as seen in Yoshi's Island 4) has a different layer priority than the other three. You can see this if you watch carefully as a spike ball passes through the layer 2 in A2MT level B6.

To fix this, all you have to do is change offset 0B864 from A1 to B1.
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limepie20
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by limepie20 »

Hey Systemkrash, if you do these hex edits, ask Diortem how to put them in "patch" form, so they can be part of PATCH.asm because I don't know. (Also ask what file to put it in (I'd assume the hex edits one, but you never know).)
S.N.N.
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by S.N.N. »

It's very easy.

1. Convert the PC addresses given to SNES addresses (use Lunar Address).
2. Write the following in PATCH.asm:

org $snesaddressyougotfromlunaraddress
db $XX <- whichever byte you want
limepie20
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by limepie20 »

Ah, alright, thanks. That's what I was looking for.
Septentrion Pleiades
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

Something to do with layer 2 music is different from when I submitted(even though the old music is listed on the wiki, now under my name). I just want to know what happened there.

Also in the same level(sublevel 1c3) the munchers have been switched to a different color, but a few are still the old color.

edit: The music also crashed in the final sublevel, last time I checked.
Last edited by Septentrion Pleiades 11 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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MrDeePay
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Re: Final Tweaking of Inserted Levels

Post by MrDeePay »

Dances with Shells:
- Cutoff ledge on screens 0F and 12, level 115.
- Cutoff on screen 08 of level C2. (Note the Turn Blocks)
- The jump on screen 07 of level 115 is a bitch to make and it pretty out of place compared to the rest of the level. It's an ambush and a extremly percise jump to make at the same time.
Dodge the Beefsteak!:
- Remove the power-up block from screen 02. It's completely unnecessary, too close to the one on screen 02, and THAT one is actually necessary to get up to the ledge that leads to the secret exit.
- The background in level 191 could use some better contrast.
- Is the upper pipe in level 191, screen 00 actually supposed to lead to that ghost house?
- Can't seem to find my way into that area with all of the coins (and enemies) right in front of the midpoint.
- Level drastically gets easier after the midway with most of the enemies being able to be easily slid into or jumped over. It's as if the level was thrown together.
Forest of Realism:
- Music breaks on the cave section in accurate emulators because you used the base SMW cave theme.
Adamantium Castle:
- Introducting these "passable from above/below" blocks over a pit of lava probably isn't the best idea.
- You'll be hearing more from me on this.
Coin Town USA:
- The Frog Lotus on screen 07/08 is blindish and can take the player by surprise thanks to just being out of the camera's view.
- The level itself doesn't strike me right either, due to the very nature of the objective and how it's layed out. Not much I can do about it.
Farenheit Something:
- The level as a whole is wasted potential to the fire/ice concept and is fitting for "first half of the game" status (It's basically two completely different mini-levels meshed to share one OW level. There are plenty of things that could be done with it from the basic stuff seen in the Galaxy games to managing the temeperature of the environment.
- The Ice section is the worst of the two. Most of the enemies can be dispatched from afar thanks to fireballs or sliding into them. The only real trouble that the player will encounter is not slipping off of the timed or diagonal platforms.
- The Fire section is better, but not by too much. Most of it is waiting for hazards to pass by before continuing on.
A Gelatin Factory:
- SP2 is using the ASMT version.
- Two effortless 1-ups. (one in the layer 2 section and another in the turn blocks with the Duck Wiggler)
- The level itself suffers from some wasted potential, especially when you have gelatin that bounces the player (as well as one form that's affected by sprites). This could've been used to provide setups that had Demo and enemies bouncing around in tandem instead of... what we have now.
Ye Olde Spookhouse:
- Outdated SP2.
- Demo appears behind the scenery when entering/exiting pipes in level 140, screens 00 and 02. </trivial>
- I may have some LevelASM code lying around that will make Demo's initial position face level on level entry (levels 13D-13E)
- Harmless enemies running about in level 140. Parakoopa and one Ninji (screen 05), another Ninja (screen 07), more Parakoopas (screens 08, and 0B-0C), and an Eerie (screen 0C). Then again, those all may be cosmetic appeal.
- Nice music, BTW. It helps enhance the setting very well though I'd consider a palette upgrade.

Into the Sky Castle!:
- This level just feels inflated and plays out like it just goes on and on.
- Why is the first power-up in the level about 17 screens into it? Yes, it's on screen 05, but you do a lot of back and forth traveling through all six- assuming you don't screw up on the shell trickery.
- To compare, the next power-up is a mere FOUR straightforward screens afterwards.
- The On/Off blocks are miscolored. Assign whatever is using palette 7 to 2 and move the palette row to there as well. Assuming it doesn't conflict with anything else in the hack.
- The On/Off Thwomps are basically a guessing game since they don't react to the player's proximity until it's time for them to crash down.
- Pesky platforming segments on screen 10-11 thanks to the two vertical blocks (both the ones below the 4x2 format and the ones alone) being oh so in the way. The former is more of a bother because of the PMS Thwomp being oh so in the way. I saw remove the left Thwomp.
- The line guide on screen 18 is broken, rendering the level unbeatable.
- Hell, you could probably do without the cruft in screens 16-18, excluding the broken line guide.
- Screen 0C rubs me the wrong way, but I'll leave that alone since I know for sure I'll be back in this level.
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