Level Finalization/QA List (Tweaking of Inserted Levels)

[Davvic]

I have exits 42,43,44,and 45 and I use them all

Sorry I dont really know anything about this. Trying to explain it the best I can. Looking at version 2.2 and the version I have that works, a secondary entrance is missing on my level.

Level 1f, screen 8. The only pipe thats on screen: secondary entrance #042 should be there.

Level 1f screen 0A secondary exit #42
-currently goes to 7
-It should go to 01f (secondary entrance 42)

Sublevel D7 screen 04 secondary exit #42
-currently goes to 7
-It should go to DD (secondary entrance 42)

This still has not been fixed, I just tested in baserom 2.6

[Paralars]

just making sure, there is a version where 0A2 is a whole garbled mess.

And I'm not sure if coin town USA is beatable, I can't find the 30th coin anywhere (in the editor), though that might just be me.

[SyStemkraSh5642]

I apologize for not checking the thread earlier. I'll start fixing these issues when limepie20 posts the ported ROM.

[MrDeePay]

And I'll try to fish through more issues in all of the available levels then.

[limepie20]

Chilly Ice Cave crashes at Demo Start because it uses a song that isn't inserted into the rom. I don't know why the music isn't inserted, but it should be reinserted unless it requires a sample bank or something, and that's why it was originally taken out.

[Septentrion Pleiades]

I just found cut off on my level. Screen 0B on the twin levels 10F and 1C1. It's near the bottom of the screen. Can I just send fixed versions as MWL Files?

[Isocitration]

Ok, this is incredibly minor, but I just noticed I didn't select the correct graphics for one of the map16 tiles on page 25. If someone could please insert this .map16 file to correct it that would be great!

[Septentrion Pleiades]

I fix the cutoff and the goal problem I mention quite a while ago.

fix.zip

levels 1c1 and 10f

(10.18 KiB) Downloaded 67 times

[SyStemkraSh5642]

Could've sworn I posted this already.

Lv27MMarkerMan:
+ Sagan Leagues Above the Surface has fixed graphics
+ Intertwined Plains's slope is fixed; there were mud tiles under the slope
+ P. Key's Mansion has two extra reset doors (one for the photo, one in the treasure chest area)
Paralars:
+ Chilly Ice Cave's and No Secret Exit Here's music have been inserted; you can now enter the levels
- I haven't been able to make Demo's head disappear in Further Over There
+ Mail Delivery's P-Switch graphics and Moonlit Mountain's football graphics have been updated
+- Level 0A2 is no longer a garbled mess, but I have to retile Level 12F
+ Coin Town USA isn't missing a coin; the one you couldn't find was most likely hiding underneath a Chuck.
Septentrion Pleiades:
+ Level 10F's cutoff is fixed and Level 1C1's secret goal is replaced
Davvic:
I'm a bit confused at this part:

Level 1f screen 0A secondary exit #42
-currently goes to 7
-It should go to 01f (secondary entrance 42)

Sublevel D7 screen 04 secondary exit #42
-currently goes to 7
-It should go to DD (secondary entrance 42)

Both say that they should lead to different areas, but that can't happen if they use the same secondary entrance, which is 42. Was sublevel D7 supposed to use secondary exit #45?
Also, there's a secondary exit #1F in the pipe where #42 should be. Is that unused?
Isocitration:
+ Map16 Page 25, Tile F8 is updated.

Hoping this posts..

[Septentrion Pleiades]

Sublevel 1BF crashes on entry in the new baserom. The new music works on the other sublevels.

Level 3 message box doesn't display anything. I can't figure it out why.

Level 1C6 needs the background to not vertical scroll into blankness. My bad.

Edit: Music 55 in level "Something to do with layer 2" is unused and unclaimed on the wiki.

[MrDeePay]

- The criticisms I made toward The Deadly Ninja Assassin Squad and the Meaning of Sharp still apply to this base; though at this point I feel that MOS is just better off not in this game at all, same for Mansion of Onoffness. Then again, I doubt many of the issues people pointed out haven't been addressed.

- Lakitrouble in the Lakitundra crashes on entry because it's set to play music that hasn't been inserted.

- Several levels are just underwhelming in regards of how they play out. Notable offenders include (but not limited to) A Gelatin Factory, Air Arena, Smouldering Stones, Cumulonimbastille, I need a P, Farenheit Something, and Intertwined Plains.

- You really should use directional hurt blocks instead of Muncher reswaps. You even have direction hurt blocks in the base ROM already (they're only used in Crazed Crayon Combat).

- Tile 1562 (used in A Calm Forest) on top of being a Muncher reskin, also lacks corner offsets. Ergo, it's possible for the player to do their job right but still take damage because they hit the damn corner of the blocks.

- hey there sewage castle has a lopsided midpoint and is remarkably stingy with powerups in the first "half" (Making one mushroom last damn near twenty screens while everything is virtually out to kill me? Really?)

- Demo is killed on entrance to sublevel 7E (Level 122 - Phase Out)

I could go on more about individual level issues (there's quite a lot) and it's ~3:15am where I am, but it's safe to say that I only scratched the surface, especially with the "underwhelming" levels.

[limepie20]

- The criticisms I made toward The Deadly Ninja Assassin Squad and the Meaning of Sharp still apply to this base; though at this point I feel that MOS is just better off not in this game at all, same for Mansion of Onoffness. Then again, I doubt many of the issues people pointed out haven't been addressed.

Can you please elaborate? I actually really want to know why you don't like these levels. Sorry if you said so earlier, and I missed it. You can just link me to the post.

- Several levels are just underwhelming in regards of how they play out. Notable offenders include (but not limited to) A Gelatin Factory, Air Arena, Smouldering Stones, Cumulonimbastille, I need a P, Farenheit Something, and Intertwined Plains.

What exactly do you mean by underwhelming? Is it too easy, or are there too little sprites? If the levels are underwhelming like you say, I could understand why you would dislike them!

- You really should use directional hurt blocks instead of Muncher reswaps. You even have direction hurt blocks in the base ROM already (they're only used in Crazed Crayon Combat).

I've actually never heard this. It would be really easy to fix because they are in the baserom. Can you explain why they're better? I'd like to know because, again, I haven't heard this criticism before. If they are better, we'll definitely make that switch.

- Tile 1562 (used in A Calm Forest) on top of being a Muncher reskin, also lacks corner offsets. Ergo, it's possible for the player to do their job right but still take damage because they hit the damn corner of the blocks.

Sorry, I know little about blocks. Do we just need to add some lines of code to the block, do we require someone with asm knowledge to make this fix?

I could go on more about individual level issues (there's quite a lot) and it's ~3:15am where I am, but it's safe to say that I only scratched the surface, especially with the "underwhelming" levels.

Please express every criticism you have because the more you do, the more levels we get fixed. Every level in the baserom is in there because someone thought the level was "up to standards". But, the more point of views we get on a level, the more we can improve it. I'd really like to appeal to you to. Thanks for voicing your complaints, by the way.

[Argumentable]

- You really should use directional hurt blocks instead of Muncher reswaps. You even have direction hurt blocks in the base ROM already (they're only used in Crazed Crayon Combat).

I've actually never heard this. It would be really easy to fix because they are in the baserom. Can you explain why they're better? I'd like to know because, again, I haven't heard this criticism before. If they are better, we'll definitely make that switch.

Cause that way if you run into the side of a spike it won't hurt you... it's basically making the actual function of the block match the graphic. It makes things a little easier but overall a lot more pleasant.

[raocow]

Mind you I think it's okay if MUNCHERS hurt from the side because, like, pirana plants hurt from the side, and they're basically the same 'species'. But it makes sense for spikes.

[limepie20]

Well we have saws right now so it does make sense, but I would actually be very willing to change that graphic because there have been problems with the saws and palette, and I suppose I understand how directional hurt blocks would be easier.

[Jesuiscontent]

Some people probably designed their levels with the hurt from all sides munchers though. If we do this change it might cause some problems in regard to the "breakable-ness" of puzzles and whatnot. Also most players will, out of habit, assume munchers hurt you from all sides anyway, so it'll probably just cause confusion for them.

[raocow]

How does that make sense? They can't nip you from the side!

that's a dangerous slippery slope, man.

Why do goombas hurt when they bump into you, they're just round, and walk very slowly!

[Argumentable]

They very clearly have teeth and bite you

[MrDeePay]

Can you please elaborate? I actually really want to know why you don't like these levels. Sorry if you said so earlier, and I missed it. You can just link me to the post.

I'll need to get the links and the discussions that ensued, but a basic summary was:
Deadly Ninja Assassin Squad - Ambushes players wrong (attacking mid-jump), lopsided midpoint (level needs two of them), Level wouldn't need an overhaul otherwise outside of optimizing the hell out of it. The Monty Mole issue (when they emerge from nothing) may be dealt with depending on which submap the level eventually appears on, though.
Meaning of Sharp - Overall difficulty and necessity for precision movement teeters on ridiculous and unreasonable. Level is better off torn down and rebuilt from scratch, if not a massive overhaul.

What exactly do you mean by underwhelming? Is it too easy, or are there too little sprites? If the levels are underwhelming like you say, I could understand why you would dislike them!

"More sprites" isn't always the solution. "Better setups" is what you would be looking for. The main issue that runs through all of them is that they're either not all that interesting (ie: Air Arena is largely comprised of jumping on platforms with very little danger) or are just wasted potential (ie: Smouldering Stones does nothing with its concept. You can remove it completely from the level and it'd play out the same.). Not much is done with these levels so they stand out beyond aesthetics.

I've actually never heard this. It would be really easy to fix because they are in the baserom. Can you explain why they're better? I'd like to know because, again, I haven't heard this criticism before. If they are better, we'll definitely make that switch.

What Argumentable said.

Sorry, I know little about blocks. Do we just need to add some lines of code to the block, do we require someone with asm knowledge to make this fix?

http://www.smwcentral.net/download.php? ... ype=blocks
Combine the top hurt block with the spin jump block currently being used and extend that to the corner offsets. It's not really that difficult to create.

Please express every criticism you have because the more you do, the more levels we get fixed. Every level in the baserom is in there because someone thought the level was "up to standards". But, the more point of views we get on a level, the more we can improve it. I'd really like to appeal to you to. Thanks for voicing your complaints, by the way.

[MrDeePay]

Smouldering Stones:

- The "gimmick" is basically tacked on. You could remove it entirely and the level would still play out the same.
- The FG position on level 2D is too low.
- In the midway entrance room, the pipe sends the player to the wrong level entirely, killing them on entry.

hey there sewage castle:

- Lopsided midpoint, though I don't think it's all that bad due to how "simple" the level becomes after the first fetch quest.
- Stingy with power-ups. You're given only one mushroom to last ~20 screens full of spikey things and narrow passages with Plant Chucks (what are those anyway?) An additional mushroom somewhere on the bottom portion of D0 should do.
- The falling spikes in D0 are useless.

Flooded Village:

- Tile behavior is absolutely nuts and makes the level more annoying to play through than it should. It also makes the level impossible to beat.
- Music breaks on accurate emulators (Snes9x + bsnes). If you insist on using the SMW cave music, just use the AM4 friendly version on SMWC.

Aerial Athletics:

- Colors 8 & 18 are miscolored in accordance to the sky gradient.
- The timing to get on the bronze pipe at screen 06-07 on level 3F is a little pesky.
- I'm surprised a Systemkrash-only level wasn't Mushrooms only. *cough*
- The giant gate's blue bar is miscolored.

Land of Illusions:

- Honestly this level is better off as two instead of one. Both "halves" have completely different focuses on their "gimmicks" and they provide a heavy contrast to one another.
- I'd convince Wyatt or someone else to make a port of Youmu's stage music from Mega Mari because it's painfully obvious that is what the first "half" of the level draws its inspiration from. The current music is more fitting if the level looked like it came from (New) Super Marisa Land.
- SMWCP2 has a boat segment built in the same fashion as this level's, but the surface of the boat are actually custom blocks that move the player at the same speed of the screen's scrolling. What I'm saying here is that Komachi's boat should be the same so the player won't always have to readjust their placement while on the ride.
- Lily is in a position to where she can easily ambush the player by channeling Wriggle and her patented Wriggle Kick™.

(It is after I write this part up that I take a quick glimpse at Who made that level.txt)
God dammit, Cup.

- Yuuka's much sexier than Lily, anyway.
- I don't think Komachi herself should have priority over the player. Hell, since the level obviously takes more after MegaMario and not Super Marisa Land, you could change her sprite to MM instead.
- Put a checkpoint at the end of the boat section regardless of what you do with this level.
- The timing to get past the (not) gap hag on level CE, screen 13 is a pain with everything that's happening on that screen alone.
- Screen's 15-18 are pretty empty.

Thwomp Ahoy!:

- Demo is killed on entry to level 52, screen 02 because the exit pipe/ground isn't set up correctly. Move all of that down one tile.
- "Thwomp" and "Thwimp" are not capitalized correctly.
- What's with the sudden change in music from Mystic Cave to the SMW Castle theme?
- An extra midpoint at the start of the ice section should suffice.
- The black windowing during the "cutscenes" should have layer priority. Aesthetic reasons mostly.
- The post-boss "cutscene" is placed too high compared to the "cutscenes" from earlier.

Air Arena:

- This level suffers from a clear lack of effort. It is remarkably straightfoward to a level similar to the levels you've seen in the Eight Powers that's being LP'd currently. For the platforming segments, see what firebars, Roto-Disc equivilents, and stuff of the like do for the level. Failing that, I can only recommend redoing that level from scratch.
- The secret exit path is only marginally more difficult, but that's mostly because you're forced to go at the game's pace (auto-scroll) and a couple of jumps that aren't too afforable. For now, I'd worry about the main path.

[limepie20]

- The "gimmick" is basically tacked on. You could remove it entirely and the level would still play out the same.

I can definitely see what you mean. Do you have any suggestions for this? Although, the gimmick doesn't attribute much, I feel like there is still enough going on in the level notwithstanding the gimmick. Do you think the level would be better without the gimmick entirely? Or changing it in some way like making the timer for it shorter, so Demo has to be hopping around? What do you think?
How did you feel about the homing thwomp room? I actually had fun with that room because the gameplay was quite different, but the mechanic felt fresh.
The other two problems have been fixed.

hey there sewage castle:

fixed this stuff

I've only looked at those two so far. I will keep posting as I go through these.

[Septentrion Pleiades]

- The "gimmick" is basically tacked on. You could remove it entirely and the level would still play out the same.

I can definitely see what you mean. Do you have any suggestions for this? Although, the gimmick doesn't attribute much, I feel like there is still enough going on in the level notwithstanding the gimmick. Do you think the level would be better without the gimmick entirely? Or changing it in some way like making the timer for it shorter, so Demo has to be hopping around? What do you think?
How did you feel about the homing thwomp room? I actually had fun with that room because the gameplay was quite different, but the mechanic felt fresh.
The other two problems have been fixed.

A good replacement gimmick would be forcing demo to hop as the floor got hot, as per the real life reflex. Currently it's like, "suddenly you're damaged/dead".

Also the chest message didn't even bring up the message box on that level. I think message glitches are all over the ROM for some reason, as I remember a different level had a problem(I think Areal athletics) with text not appearing, as well as Skyway to Wonderland.

[Diortem]

Also the chest message didn't even bring up the message box on that level. I think message glitches are all over the ROM for some reason, as I remember a different level had a problem(I think Areal athletics) with text not appearing, as well as Skyway to Wonderland.

Don't blame the chest for this. This is rather because no message has been inserted in the patch. Indeed, levels $003 and #018 don't have any contents for their entries. I suppose they'll be added later on.

Btw. SystemKrash level $139 is in the text input file twice. I'm not sure how the tool will handle that one. ;)

[Septentrion Pleiades]

level 3 had the message inserted in the first spot instead of the second.

as for the chest message, here it is in it's full glory

[Diortem]

Second spot? What are you talking about? chestdata.txt doesn't spell out level 003, thus it's empty. It's as clear as that.

Ah, that one. Limepie called be about it quite a while ago. I thought they had fixed this one already.
The problem is the level not the chest. :) That particular sublevel messes around with layer priority, which means that the chest (like any regular message box using layer 3) will fail. Just put a message box next to it, it won't show up either. The only way to resolve it is to undo the layer 3, which probably breaks the level, thus moving the chest to a different area is a better solution.