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Level Clearing

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Argumentable
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by Argumentable »

If it's the thing from the pipe in the yoshi house, I'd say it's ok for the most part. I heard switch palaces were supposed to be endgame difficulty and I would say this is not that. I won't say it's clear or not because 1) I'm not sure if it's what I was supposed to be playing and 2) what I just said in the previous sentence. Here's a couple thoughts which you can ignore or whatever (especially if I played the wrong thing)
-I like the flashing idea, but I really don't think it does anything. Everything flashes too much to make it a trick or have you pay attention, I'd suggest making things more static and having everything that flashes (including munchers and coins or whatever) be fake

-Speaking of which, if you do that I think adding more munchers would make it more difficult, and make you have to pay a little more attention. Make it all about the platforming

-I'd probably remove the second munchers you have to run through with the silver P-Switch. I'd hate to get to that part and realize "Oh I didn't go fast enough gotta reset and do all this item dragging bullshit again"

-PS I hate item dragging

-Probably should remove the star I think it's pretty dumb to be able to kill the phantos when they're the hardest thing about the level

-I don't know it feels pretty empty

-PPS I hate item dragging
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by Frozelar »

Argumentable wrote:If it's the thing from the pipe in the yoshi house, I'd say it's ok for the most part. I heard switch palaces were supposed to be endgame difficulty and I would say this is not that. I won't say it's clear or not because 1) I'm not sure if it's what I was supposed to be playing and 2) what I just said in the previous sentence. Here's a couple thoughts which you can ignore or whatever (especially if I played the wrong thing)
-I like the flashing idea, but I really don't think it does anything. Everything flashes too much to make it a trick or have you pay attention, I'd suggest making things more static and having everything that flashes (including munchers and coins or whatever) be fake

-Speaking of which, if you do that I think adding more munchers would make it more difficult, and make you have to pay a little more attention. Make it all about the platforming

-I'd probably remove the second munchers you have to run through with the silver P-Switch. I'd hate to get to that part and realize "Oh I didn't go fast enough gotta reset and do all this item dragging bullshit again"

-PS I hate item dragging

-Probably should remove the star I think it's pretty dumb to be able to kill the phantos when they're the hardest thing about the level

-I don't know it feels pretty empty

-PPS I hate item dragging
Oh, yeah, that's the right thing. Sorry, I guess I forgot to specify.

Anyways, those ideas actually aren't bad, I'll consider some of them. Thanks!

But one last thing, did you mean the level was too hard or too easy? I'm assuming the latter?
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by Argumentable »

Let me ask you: how would "too hard" NOT be "endgame"?
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by swirlybomb »

frostyfish88 wrote:
SyStemkraSh5642 wrote:Let me get that for ya.
@ frostyfish88:
I love the intro you've made; it's creative, and strange (which is pretty much normal for this hack). At first, I thought that the intro level's vertical scroll wasn't enabled, but I realized it was done on purpose for the cutscene.I've tested to see if I could screw up the intro in any way, and it doesn't seem like I can. You're cleared for insertion.
Uhh? I apologize if I'm missing something huge here, but... I just made a switch palace half, it didn't have any cutscene or anything like that. Are you sure you're criticizing me on the right thing?
Systemkrash was actually referring to my piece, but mistakenly used your name.



[also regarding mine] I like the regular goal theme, because I think it sounds silly to have a victory tune playing when you just (almost) fell into an inescapable pit of lava, but it is kind of awkward to have it not last for the whole designated intro time. Then again, the regular intro theme does also have this non-chalantness quality in the same situation. I'll set it to the regular intro theme for submission, and then if something else comes up later that seems better, it's an easy change.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Frozelar
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by Frozelar »

Alright. I took some of Argumentable's criticism into consideration, and well,

here we go
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by Argumentable »

I like it a lot better. As a side note that doesn't have to do specifically with this level (but does effect it), you guys should use YCZ's improved phanto cause it doesn't hurt you when you don't have the key and it just feels more natural that way.

For the most part, I like it. I still feel like it's pretty sparse with the enemies, but that's not really bad. With this version I ran into more saws which is what I wanted. To be nitpicky I'd probably tweak the animation just a little bit, but it's fine how it is. I'm still not going to clear you, I'd prefer someone who actually gives a shit about the project to play it and give their input, but if for some reason they don't I guess you can say I'd clear it, but don't be surprised if someone down the line has a little bit of input.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by limepie20 »

frostyfish:
I like it more now. I think you did a good job. You're cleared. One error I found though was that if you bring the key to the top half of the door, the top half and the block above it will be removed. All you have to do is make the top half of the door act like 130 instead of the locked door block. Fix that, and you're good.

ninja'd:
Yeah actually the improved phanto could probably improve the gameplay. I'd use it. Just claim a sprite slot or whatever. Still cleared.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by Frozelar »

Oh, thank you Argu and limepie!
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by S.N.N. »

Huh, I wouldn't have cleared it just yet, mostly because I'm inclined to agree with Argumentable. There seems to be a heavy over-emphasis on saws, rendering any and all sprites you used totally pointless and frustrating to deal with. I can't even remember how many times I got destroyed by arandom Missle Bill come out of nowhere (and having to deal with that + figuring out the animation in certain areas + avoiding other saws made things rather killer, bordering unfair in certain parts).

I rather enjoyed the concept of the level - that is, the animation portion of it. I really feel like the idea was underutilized though, and you merely repeated the same set-ups throughout the entire area without mixing up the gimmick a bit. It got to the point where I was actually asking "is this over yet", which probably isn't what you were trying to pull off. Isn't there anything else you can do with it besides spamming saws? Even mixing up some other tiles into it (eg. the climbing net) would be really cool.

Oh, also, it's possible that both Phantos will stop in the locked door opening immediately after you unlock it. Since your key is gone at that point, they'll both be permanently there and you'll be forced to either reset or die. This would probably drive a player to quit right there and not finish the level at all.

I dunno. Interesting idea, poor execution in my opinion. If people really think it's ready to be cleared, then by all means go for it, but I can already imagine several others will find this one rather boring and/or frustrating.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by shdwdrgnix »

S.N.N. wrote: Oh, also, it's possible that both Phantos will stop in the locked door opening immediately after you unlock it. Since your key is gone at that point, they'll both be permanently there and you'll be forced to either reset or die. This would probably drive a player to quit right there and not finish the level at all.
Wasn't there a way to have the phantos disappear when the key does?
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by Argumentable »

Lets ignore the better phanto I linked and code something entirely new
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by limepie20 »

Argumentable wrote:Lets ignore the better phanto I linked and code something entirely new
Yeah just inserting the new phanto fixes that, so definitely do it, frostyfish. Also, there was a star that could kill the phantos but yeah that's a problem nonetheless.

Even though the level was mostly saws, I still had fun with it and didn't find it unfair.
The homing bills could be improved on though, yeah. Frostyfish, maybe you could replace the homing bills with a bullet bill generator or something? My main problem with the homing bills was being caught off guard. If they made a noise it may be okay, but I spent a lot of time planning my moves before I did them (especially during the key segment). Try something out, and let us give it another spin. I already cleared you, so you have nothing to lose.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by Frozelar »

That's some very good criticism... Thanks everyone, I'll get crackin' on it
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by Frozelar »

I tried inserting the Phanto Argu suggested, but it just acts like a regular Phanto... any ideas on what could be going wrong? I've been using the phanto_r one with Romi's sprite tool and I've tried the extra bits on both 2 and 3.

Thanks!
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by Frozelar »

Alright, well, I guess I'll plop my switch half here... although I didn't change the phanto because, well, see above.

ah yeah
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by Daizo »

After some slight worries about The Great Pit not being in this collab, I am kind of wondering if TGP is inserted into the game still. Or did it get removed some how.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by limepie20 »

Daizo wrote:After some slight worries about The Great Pit not being in this collab, I am kind of wondering if TGP is inserted into the game still. Or did it get removed some how.
No it's still here.

Frozelar:
I liked this one better. It definitely felt fairer. The one thing I didn't like was the holes the key could fall in during the climbing part. It was mostly fine, but there was parts where you were up high and if you throw the key down, it would fall in a hole, but you couldn't see that there was a hole from there. So just make it so that holes are visible before you have a chance of accidentally throwing the key down there. You can resubmit if that is made better.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by Frozelar »

Alright... I'll just put munchers instead of a hole or something. So then, just don't worry about the phanto? I won't need the sprite slot thing if that's the case.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by limepie20 »

I guess not. It would be better if it worked, but whatever.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by tenta »

Sorry for my late response.

Limepie, i know what you want me to do. It just, how can i say this. It doesn't feel right to me. It make it too obvious and too easy to show that there is a secret.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by limepie20 »

If you don't like it, try to come up with something else. As I've said before, it can't be cleared the way it is now. I highly suggest using my solution, though.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by Cup »

I haven't been doing anything with this except for sitting on it since I haven't really felt any rush, but I should really start working on getting it cleaned up for clearing and submission before I forget what's going on.

Mishi sublevel. Just go through the door.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by limepie20 »

Cup:
Hey, you're cleared. There's really nothing wrong with it. The random bullet bill generator still feels a bit unfair to me, but if you insist, it can be kept.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by tenta »

This time, me and Sept worked a lot on it and fixed some issues that were found at the same time. Also he teached me how to use Map16.

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Re: Level Clearing

Post by limepie20 »

tenta:
The chest path isn't fixed yet. I'm not sure what you changed about your level, but what needs to be fixed is the chest path. All you have to do is follow the picture I posed earlier.
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