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Level Clearing

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yogui
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by yogui »

Well, the glitch when you can enter into a wall and die if you go fast can be fixed if we insert a patch: the Walljump/Note Block Glitch Fix patch. With this patch you can no longer "enter" inside a block and you can't use the walljump glitch (too bad for people who do TAS). The patch is on smwcentral.
So if you don't see any other way to fix this glitch, then apply this patch into the baserom (and don't forget about the freespace).
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by raocow »

I agree with anything that messes up with TASers.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by shdwdrgnix »

At least in that case we will see the entire level being TASed instead of seeing the top of the level or something.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by AUS »

Yeah, and those TASes are boring. We're doing everyone a favor.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by SyStemkraSh5642 »

Guys remember that we're trying to fix a game problem, not make TASes less boring :P
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by raocow »

But we ARE fixing a problem by keeping peeps from going into blocks, since it fixes the 'boosters gonna kill you' glitch. The above is just a happy coincidence.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by Awakenyourmind »

Boring? Have you ever seen Mister do a TAS? They can be pretty awesome! I'm just saying not all TAS's are bad. Example: Cool Or Cruel. The TAS's of that game are amazing! Unless we are talking about TAS's of regular hacks. :oops:

Also I sorta dislike when TAS'ers do the wall jump, it just looks blah to me. Unless Mister is doing it. He makes it fun by going into the wall its self.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by raocow »

Mister is one of those rare exceptions.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by Paralars »

Can we just add the patch to fix the boosters?
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by limepie20 »

Paralars wrote:Can we just add the patch to fix the boosters?
I'll tell you once we can (and are) add(ing) patches again.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by raocow »

Alex wrote:
raocow wrote:I agree with anything that messes up with TASers.
Doing things just to piss off TASers is the best way to get them to not TAS the hack. As a TASer myself, TASing can be arduous even when the hack designers accidentally overlook mistakes that lead to breaks. A good TASer will spend hours perfecting a level that isn't designed with TASers in mind, so if you restrict something in a hack just to make TASes "more entertaining", then you're basically telling a TASer to go fuck themselves. It's not as simple as just "flying over a level" or whatever; you, of all people, should know how stupidly easy something might look while passively watching it when, in reality, it's actually balls-to-the-wall hard to actually do.

End rant.
raocow wrote:Mister is one of those rare exceptions.
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Man, you should know me better now to take me too literaly.

But 'oh man flying over/under the whole thing // going over all the level due to walljumping' DO make fairly uninteresting a spectacle, regardless of actual difficulty. As unfortunate as this may be~!

However, I do think it would be an elegant solution for that booster problem, which is the actually more important thing here.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by Paralars »

while we're all talking about level Clearing, something about spitznagl's level:

I don't really feel like designing a new second half for that level, and I guess it was supposed to be somewhat hard.
My plan was to have the level end shortly after you enter the underground environment, about 3-4 screens in. To have the whole "defense system, clearance code" thing still be there in a symbolic way.
I know it's not optimal, but better than just scrapping the level if spitznagl doesn't come back.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by limepie20 »

Yo, yo

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Re: Level Clearing

Post by limepie20 »

Alright, thanks.
Here it is updated.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

limepie20 wrote:Yo, yo

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The yoshi munchers in the lava phase flash like the lava does. It also need to have new dragon coins. I think there was cutoff at screen 0f of level 18, but I didn't noticed it during game play.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by Ometeotl »

Ometeotl wrote:Ok, those are all fixed.

http://bin.smwcentral.net/u/1089/WoodchuckWoods.ips
Just trying to get this cleared.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by capefeather »

A big theme behind my level is being careful and looking ahead. I mean, I know there's this whole momentum thing that I might screw up for some people if the level keeps having them look near the edge of the screen for the next obstacle, but ultimately I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to expect of the player. The ? blocks at the beginning of the second room are supposed to convey this need, but I've made them into a hook shape so as to imply less that you should just fall, and to make you stop perhaps. There used to be more plants in that room, and some of them were in spots that made things really hard, so I removed those and the plants that remain are there.

I'm not sure how you're not noticing the jumping piranha plants. Every single time I've tested the level, they're up by the time I get to them, because the little "hook" is on the same screen. This gives the plants the time to spring up before you get to them. I suppose if you hang around a bit too much, they'll go back to their holes. I'll see what I can do.

The last room now has coin arrows :P I agree with you on the ceiling plant thing. Although it can mostly be done with by just running, if you stop for any reason it's pretty hellish, so I've taken some of them out. Also, I've had problems with the switch's palette because someone said there was something wrong with it when I hadn't done anything to it, so I tried to make it look better and I guess I screwed it up. What are the ON/OFF switches supposed to look like?

http://bin.smwcentral.net/u/12461/1a.ips
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by flameofdoubt »

Ometeotl: The koopa sprite graphics mess up when it kicks the shell. Are you using all the write GFX/ExGFX files or is this something that will autofix itself in the final rom? The far right edge of the tree under the keyhole is very easy to catch your head on and then fall into the pit, I'd recommend making that one (or it might be two) tile(s?) a "pass upwards through" tile, but keeping the others solid. Then upload it to the submissions thread, it's cleared.

capefeather: The level is clearable, I just have one slight problem with the beginning messagebox. It sets up a scenario that we never get closure on. Is the joke supposed to be that someone asks us to empty their pipe but we ignore them and leave? If that is the case I would recommend another mesagebox with something like "Hey, where are you going? You said you'd fix my pipes! You are a terrible plumber!". Otherwise if the idea was for the player to actually clean the pipes, I'd suggest having something at the end that you kill or some throw blocks you remove and then a message thanking you or something.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

It's current name is, "Nothing Ground Can Stay".

Edit2: Here it is http://www.mediafire.com/?6ka4e1ggccdo94l
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by limepie20 »

Septentrion Pleiades:
Those flashing pipes are unacceptable. I'm sorry; I get the look you were going for, but it just looks very bad. It might look a bit better if the lines were straight instead of jagged. The just black-and-white ones look fine, though. When you add color is when the problem arises. Its weird that you have that empty yellow pipe during the second p switch run; it's misleading to the player.

Now, the second section. The first problem is that the music switches to something unfitting (just keep it the same). But it seems like you completely switched the theme for that section and that's a glaring issue. It's completely different from your first half and has no business being there. In your second half you should elaborate on the gimmick. Like for instance, getting rid of the p switches - and preferably the magikoopa - and having you rely on where the enemies step to see where to go (use red koopas and spinies).

I'm not gonna talk about the second half that much because - sorry to say - I think you should scrap it and make a new one (something like what I said up there). As long as there's no connection between the first and second half, I'm not going to clear it.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by Wyatt »

I am the biggest sucker for P-switch runs, and this one was implemented beautifully, and in a unique way. The second half of the level felt unique and fun as well. My only complaints with the level are that the midpoint works weird (why the teleport block? why not just have it put you in the level like normal) and that the parrot coin in the cheep cheep maze is practically a suicide run: see if you can let the player return to the "correct" path by having them jump through a rope or something. Also I only found 3 of the parrot coins (guessing I missed one under the goal at the end) but if you assure me that there's 5 I'll trust you.

Also, I saw your post in the custom music thread and I'll try and port your song. I'll post there once I'm done.

FAKEEDIT: What seriously? I see your point limepie, but the level was fun and unique enough that I figured it was worth clearing. I thought both halves were cool, but couldn't be elaborated on much more than they were. Maybe the answer is to split the level in two, rather than to completely scrap the second half: I thought the first half would've been fine as a level on its own. Also a "see where enemies go on the invisible platforms" second half would suck.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by raocow »

Yeah, 'invisible floor so use enemies to figure what the hell' are generaly pretty terrible, at least every instance of similare gimmicks that I've played.

If the two 'halves' are so disconnected, though, there is no harm in splitting it into two short levels. Short levels are good, I don't know why people are so unwilling to clear short levels!!
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by Paralars »

about the glossy pipes, you can probably easily make the colorful ones look better by just making an actual fitting palette for them (make the purple/blue ones just purple, remove the flashiness)

If you want, you can try this palette
palette.zip
just load it into the level to fix the purple and green ones, for the yellow ones I suggest removing the flashy coin color from the level first(coin button on the very right, disable original palette animations)
or, if you want to keep the coins flashy, use a different color for the yellow pipes.

I actually think the semi-transparent colorful pipes look fine.

by the way, just to clear this up to raocow, the level does not entirely leave you with enemies to figure stuff out, that's more like a last resort if you lose your momentum.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

I totally think that splitting the levels is an excellent idea. It gets rid of the need for the teleport block midpoint.

I see how the pipes are weird, but i don't see how it's unacceptable because it's sort of cool. It was mostly an accident and I don't know how to set them to be the default pipes. With the palette file and instructions from paralas I'll fix that.

Did anyone get the secret exit yet? It will probably end up with the second part in their own level.
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Re: Level Clearing

Post by limepie20 »

Wyatt:
If you want to clear it, go ahead. My opinion stands but if you think it's fine, I'm not arguing.
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