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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 12 Nov 2011, 18:51
by Jesuiscontent
Hey there guys !

I'm happy to introduce you the first version of my level, Dancing with Shells (level 115). It's the red dot level on the overworld. (There is only ONE exit though, it's just to male it stand out)

http://bin.smwcentral.net/u/17829/Dancingwithshells.ips

Feel free to point out every part you think can be improved, I'm trying my best to be ready to submit by the time the deadline comes.

Just a small notice : The 5 dragons coins and the chest are all in the level, in case you're not finding one of them for some reason.

I'm especially waiting for feedback concerning the difficulty since I'm constantly tweaking around making the level easier or harder. And don't hesitate to bash me about my possibly wierd palette choice, hah!

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 12 Nov 2011, 19:04
by Paralars
I like the music and the concept a lot!
But, I don't know if you have heard about the concept of cutoff being bad, because it is all over the place.
cutoff.png
There's a lot more, for example pipes next to water and corner tiles.

your foreground palette looks poorly made, it#s okay to have it weird greenish and outstanding, but the colors don't match, have a look at that.
In the vertical segment, I recommend using layer 2 water and a layer 3 background instead of a layer 2 background and layer 3 water, because it's really awkward how the premade layer 3 tide
- pushes you to the left in a level that seems "balanced" to both directions (that level isn't really built around the concept of being pushed to the left).
- is really low.

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 12 Nov 2011, 19:27
by raocow
Considering you have decided to take way too big a bite I'm willing to give you an extension, if you can garantee to be done... let's say two weeks after the deadline. As in, two weeks after, you got something in the clearing thread.

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 12 Nov 2011, 19:57
by Paralars
how come a background equals 70% of graphics?

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 12 Nov 2011, 20:10
by Ometeotl
And why is the level itself considered such a small part of making a...level.

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 12 Nov 2011, 20:18
by Jesuiscontent
Paralars wrote:I like the music and the concept a lot!
But, I don't know if you have heard about the concept of cutoff being bad, because it is all over the place.
cutoff.png
There's a lot more, for example pipes next to water and corner tiles.

your foreground palette looks poorly made, it#s okay to have it weird greenish and outstanding, but the colors don't match, have a look at that.
In the vertical segment, I recommend using layer 2 water and a layer 3 background instead of a layer 2 background and layer 3 water, because it's really awkward how the premade layer 3 tide
- pushes you to the left in a level that seems "balanced" to both directions (that level isn't really built around the concept of being pushed to the left).
- is really low.
Thanks for your feedback !

About the cutoff parts : Ow, I've forgot some quite ugly ones, sorry about that.

About the palette : Yeah, I was king of worried about that, the thing is that I am absolutely terrible at graphics, art, colors and whatnot, but I wanted to modify at least the palette so that the level doesn't look too "bland". I'll try to improve it but I really have trouble with that kind of stuff :P

About the vertical level part : Well, actually I really tried to balance that area around that mechanic. I wanted to "reward" the player for progressing ahead of the water (by bouncing on koopas and stuff) by granting him more movement, whereas falling in the water would be "punished" by suffering altered movement (that's where I think using tide water instead of plain water makes sense).
That's also why I tried to make the parrot coins difficult to get if you're cowardly sitting in the water, but easier if you're climbing using ennemies and ground. The only exception is the 3-pathway area of course. Wow, I don't know if I managed to convey my point here, but bear with me :mrgreen:

Oh another thing : Did you find the chest? I put it in a sort of "hard to see" passage, but since I already knew it was here I can't test myself if it is noticeable at all for someone who doesn't expect it.

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 12 Nov 2011, 20:51
by Paralars
Well I didn't play through the whole thing, just until the midpoint and the first few vertical screens.
I found the vine leading to the pipe leading to a room full of shell kicking guys, but I only had a peek and rewinded back.
Okay if you say the vertical thing IS desiged around the movement thing, then I trust you, I just didn't think that it was like that because you have to go both to the left and right a lot and the three-split path thing didn't seem like there was a special one I'd prefer choosing (to me at least) - but forget about that.
The palette is pretty good, it's just the green-cyan-grey transition at the top of the stones that bothers me.
You could just replace color 27 with something more blue-ish and it would look a lot better.

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 12 Nov 2011, 21:11
by raocow
Make tails make you a palette, guy loves doing that stuff.

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 12 Nov 2011, 22:43
by Tails_155
On it. If you like it you can use it, otherwise, you can try another one on your own! ^^

As far as the cutoff, barring ExAnimation, they're simple fixes, then the chainsaw/munchers just requires basic knowledge of ExAnimation and it should all be pretty simple. I can even set up the palette for you so you can have the palettes ready for modified graphics, if you need help, I can try and walk you through it.

http://bin.smwcentral.net/u/6151/Palettes.ips

Also, to fix the cutoff, don't be afraid to ask for some ExGFX slots and use YY-CHR, it's not too tough and makes levels look a lot nicer with very little.

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 12 Nov 2011, 22:54
by Leifytwig123
Okay, I need the GAMEPLAY tested on this. I know that the graphics suck, I'm doing that last. Do the first room, then when you get to the second take the door, not the platform, the door is there to take you to the second part of the level, because the first part hasn't been completely finished yet. So, yeah, thanks in advance for the feedback, just tell me if something needs to be fixed.

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 12 Nov 2011, 23:26
by Paralars
I entered the door and was killed by the camera offset.
Then I went into LM and changed the secondary exit so I could play it.

The idea to have the player switch rails in time is pretty good, but it turns out a bit boring, try not to have only eeries.
The standard unfitting BG and music don't really contribute to the level being fun, so I'm expecting you will change these later.
You should expand that idea of railswitching a bit more, for example have rails looks destroyed in parts where the platform falls off and is caught somewhere else, i.e. the topmost platform could fall to an empty rail at the bottom while the other two platforms make a little jump through thin air.
Think of more different obstacles than eeries and yeah, that's it.
Can't say that much about the gameplay yet, there is a lot of stuff missing, you need to up your tempo from the last week if you want to get finished in 5 days.

And remember that a lot of sprites can cause issues, for example your boo blocks never spawn altogether in the beginning

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 12 Nov 2011, 23:50
by Jesuiscontent
Tails_155 wrote:On it. If you like it you can use it, otherwise, you can try another one on your own! ^^

As far as the cutoff, barring ExAnimation, they're simple fixes, then the chainsaw/munchers just requires basic knowledge of ExAnimation and it should all be pretty simple. I can even set up the palette for you so you can have the palettes ready for modified graphics, if you need help, I can try and walk you through it.

http://bin.smwcentral.net/u/6151/Palettes.ips

Also, to fix the cutoff, don't be afraid to ask for some ExGFX slots and use YY-CHR, it's not too tough and makes levels look a lot nicer with very little.
Thanks a lot ! This palette is really neat, I really appreciate your help. Also, since you proposed, I will gladly accept a bit of assistance for fixing the munchers, because I was thinking I only needed to put tiles of water behind them. I guess I was wrong ^^

I will try and look up some tutorials on Exanimation in the meantime though.

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 13 Nov 2011, 00:14
by Paralars
You will need basically one exGFX file that contains the munchers with the water background (and the pipe edges with water background) and a few map16 slots, maybe a line or two.

For exAnimation, I made this picture a while ago to help someone else with that, maybe it's helpful.
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/7827/exanim.jpg

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 13 Nov 2011, 01:15
by Tails_155
as Paralars said. I already made the munchers have a water palette for the standard color (the leftmost set for the upside down Muncher) -- all you have to do is ExAnimate a second set that uses the last color (Color F in the palette) behind the Muncher graphics. The Muncher Graphics (to copy and paste) are in GFX33. Just use the fill tool to fill the background of them with color F, then go into the Super GFX Bypass and add the ExGFX to the bottom most (or "ExAnimation tiles") slot, and then hold Shift+Ctrl+Page Down in the 8x8 editor to scroll past the foreground/background tiles, past the sprite tiles to the animation and ExAnimation tiles, and put the numbers in as any tutorial should explain. If you need help, PM me :3

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 13 Nov 2011, 05:46
by Leifytwig123
Okay, Paralars, I'm on it! I'll see if I can get another one up tomorrow or Monday!

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 13 Nov 2011, 20:58
by Leifytwig123
Sorry to double post but I need to post a new attachment.

Well, now I need the gameplay tested on the place the the first door sends you. It's sort of a roughdraft, I need to know if it's good so far, and how much I should enlarge it. This is the part of the level before the midpoint, and it won't be a very hard level, so keep that in mind.

I also have a few questions:
1. Directed at Paralars, I know you said that I should make the second part less boring, but I'm not really sure how to do that, would adding some boos, boo blocks, etc. and making the platforms switch tracks be enough?
2. Is there a way to make the fishing lakitu guy despawn?
3. How do I fix it so that the camera offset doesn't kill you on the second part?

Thanks in advance for testing this! I really appreciate it.

E: Oh shoot, the filesize is too big, take this link: http://www.mediafire.com/?jzg2cdrlxj6pxjv

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 13 Nov 2011, 21:15
by Paralars
1.
Yeah, you can do that. Try some things out and play for yourself. Some rail hops, some different sprites, some obstacles (keep in mind that a ton of boo blocks are no obstacle, like in the other part, you can just walk through except you put in some real blocks inbetween them)
For the first door part, you could add some small stations, you know, the kind of platforms rollercoasters have at their peaks for repairing and stuff, maybe with powerup blocks
- similar to the part with the eerie-pencils and the boo block swarm.
By the way, an actual rollercoaster graphic set would make this a lot better, especially considering the background. Too bad there isn't much time left.

2.
wellshit.jpg
3.
Go to the Secondary exit editor, select the secondary exit you want to edit and change the FG value at the bottom to something else (60 worked I think, try it out)

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 13 Nov 2011, 23:17
by Leifytwig123
Awesome, thanks for being so helpful! Also, raocow told me that I just needed to get a working level in on time. That's why I'm leaving the graphics for last. I'll probably still do that stuff after the deadline.

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 14 Nov 2011, 05:41
by SyStemkraSh5642
A2MT Level, Weekly Update 2
Description:
This is the second weekly update for my A2MT level. I'm only halfway done with the level, which worries me because of the deadline on November 17th. I had a little under 3 weeks to complete this. I'm liking how this level is turning out, although it's not exactly what I intended to create in the first place. Let's hope I can finish this in four days.

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 14 Nov 2011, 12:56
by Paralars
It looks good to me, but aren't the rails/lines really hard to see like that?

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 14 Nov 2011, 16:23
by 7TC7
spitznagl wrote:-I liked!!!!!!
Thank you!
spitznagl wrote:-The water/ground checkerboard pattern is a neat touch. Have you considered playing with different dither patterns?
I tried a few different things. The checkerboard is the only one, that really seemed to look right. The transition to the big water part is actually a bit different, but it's really not very obvious.
spitznagl wrote:-The only section that felt boring to me was the one with the different characters and figures floating in the water. It's a great idea considering your tileset, but I personally would add more of those objects in that area and make them intersect together, without making it a maze though. It would still be a swimming section with not much to do, but with more to look at, it would certainly feel more complete.
I think you ment something different, when you said "intersect them", but I changed them. They no longer are a lot of single pictures but now try to tell a little story. Thats nice, I hope. Also, they do intersect a little!
I didn't want to make that part of the swimming section a maze of any kind, as you have to go through it twice (or trice) to get the chest of the stage. I actually put the two blue goopas at the beginning of the water part there, so that it is possible to steal their shells for faster swimming (or getting rid of those pesky Rip-van-fish).
spitznagl wrote:-I really liked the transitions from water to ground and vice versa. It feels like pressurized rooms under the sea or something. It would be really nice IMO to have those more present, but I guess that you might not feel like making this kind of change at this stage.
Yeah, it's a bit hard to change many big scale things like that at this point. Anyways, happy you like it.
Should I have been forgotten due to the page turning twice, here is my IPS again.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/48607961/A2MTLVLFIVEnew3.ips

If I'm not getting any comments I'll move on to Level Clearing.

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 14 Nov 2011, 19:14
by Paralars
Another one of those abstract levels!
I like where this is going now.
Yeah, just go to Clearing, why not.

I recommend:
- Turning off global color animations because the flashy parrot coins don't fit the low-res theme
- Using the correct turnblock sprite GFX(SP1), i.e. the graphic you used for the block itself
- Considering replacing even enemies with blocks, they are pretty simple ones, so one could easily recognize them even when they are blocks
- Making the top of grass platforms more easily recognizable

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 14 Nov 2011, 20:28
by 7TC7
I ask:
- How do I turn off global color animation?
- How do I use the correct turnblock sprite?
- And also, the grass was intended to be not very obvious.

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 14 Nov 2011, 20:33
by Paralars
- coin button at the very right -> turn off original game's palette animations
- Super GFX Bypass (red poison mushroom) -> slot SP1 contains the turn block sprite graphic, if you want it to be a grey block as in the rest of your level, paste that graphic over the turn block in an exGFX file and insert it for SP1, the same goes for ?-Blocks and moving brown blocks.
(For the turn block, the sprite only shows up for a brief moment when being hit, or on turn block bridges and blue pick up blocks)

Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Posted: 14 Nov 2011, 23:57
by Jesuiscontent
Okay, thanks to Paralars and Tails I am now able to post the (hopefully) graphic issues-proof version of my level.

http://bin.smwcentral.net/u/17829/danci ... ellsv2.ips

I am particulary looking forward to gameplay feedback, difficulty evaluation and stuff, and also knowing if this version is fine for clearing !

Also, kinda related question : What ARE the koopas in A2MT, exactly? I mentioned koopas in my message boxes in the level, but these things are no koopas at all. Do they have an official name? Or are they just the "Angry Slime Dudes" or something.

EDIT : Thanks Mr.Cow