Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comments

[Wyatt]

IMO everyone should be expected to use the patch for the reason Ometeotl wants to use it. Obligatory "midpoint rooms" in the first sublevel look unprofessional and should be phased out completely now that we have the technology to do so.

I completely understand the problem that people will want to use this to make overly long levels; I guess just make it a rule that regular levels can only have one midpoint, and hope that nobody complains?

[limepie20]

Like raocow said, they just need a good reason and it should be fine.

[MrDeePay]

Why not?

Well, okay the way I see it, Mr Peeday up there should do his level as he sees fit.

DeePay
</nitpick>


Well, regarding my level.
- It currently requires a rough estimate of 13 screens in hex (which isn't exactly easy to get there. the small stretch with the Shell Bro in room 2 that) just to get to the room where the secret exit is located and 11 more (again, in hex) to make it to that spot (a goalpost).
- The extra checkpoint would be at the entrance of this room and I would have a pipe that leads to the first checkpoint if the player changes their mind on wanting to go for the secret exit (or just have a convenient shortcut) in the main level.
- There would be a pipe at the end of the secret exit room that would spit Demo out somewhere in the final room where the normal exit is.
- I'm currently cutting out some excess fat in the level to make it more managable (sp), so I'll make another update on that if it really changes anything.

If you like, I can post a more solid visual aid.

[VideoGuy]

Hey, it feels like it's been forever since I posted anything here. And I'm sorry about that, I'm just sortof at a crossroads with my level.

Right now, the level's gimmick is you racing a goal sphere to the end of an obstacle course, then having a miniboss with the sphere itself in order to beat the level. What I was thinking though, is having some sort of "collect 20 mini-spheres in order to unlock the final goal sphere" gimmick in the level. Doing the second would allow me to have a better level design, since my current obstacle course is somewhat linear, but I think the first one is more unique.

What do you guys think? (If you haven't played my level before, it might be a bit hard to judge.)

[limepie20]

I like the racing idea better.

[flameofdoubt]

The racing idea is more interesting sounding as a concept, the only problem really is that it was done quite well in ASMT with the egg boss of world 2, so it would have to be really good, or different in some other important ways to make it sufficiently different so people don't cry foul.

If you wanted to be completely ridiculous, you could have a series of races, and play it out with leaderboards as if it's some big athletics tournament, and you have to beat races against several fake or small easy goal spheres (or general other items from super mario world like turnblocks or shells), until you finally qualify to run against the world record holding goal sphere, and he has a sweatband or something so he looks silly.

The collection idea can work well too, and you could even combine them so that you have to chase down a number of small, easy to catch ones, or they tease you by running into pits before you challenge one who is actually collectable.

Either way, you already have your gimmick for the level, and have already done some level design for it. At this point, in the worst, worst case scenario, you might have to remake the whole level based on which of the roads you go down, but on the bright side, all that is is level design, you already have all the tools to make a great level, you just have to figure out what will make a great level out of that gimmick, and it may take some experimentation, but it should be so tough because actually doing the design of levels itself, apart from running out of ideas, isn't too time consuming or tough, really.

[Chdata]

you race, but must collect 20 goal sphere's during said race. Which then the real sphere absorbs the power of them and becomes a boss or something =p

[limepie20]

I honestly love that whole championship idea FoD just suggested. It's just that it seems like a little too much for one level. I guess your best bet is like 3 races and a midpoint and then 3 more races.

[VideoGuy]

I think I keep it down to only a few races, that could actually work really well. Thanks for the idea!

[raocow]

Alright, so main changes:

new music that is more appropriate for a slower, puzzlier level
asm by kil to change the sound when getting a powerup, to indicate that it's 'bad'
made the autoscroll area non-slippery
made the chest a little more forgiving
made it so in many places, if you fall in a hole instead of dying you restart that part of the level (first room except the last jump, latter part of second room, all of autoscroll room, all but last screen of forest room)
and other misc. little changes to make the level a little easier.

limepie did some hdma effect for me but I can't seem to be able to put them in without screwing up somehow, so, uhm, I don't know what to do about that!

[limepie20]

If you can give me your Levelasm file I can see if I can try to make the two codes work with eachother.

[raocow]

Code: Select all

level2F:
      LDA $2140
      CMP #$0A
      BEQ +
      CMP #$0D
      BEQ +
      RTS
+   
      LDA #$01
      STA $1DF9
      LDA #$2A
      STA $1DFC
      RTS

level47:
      LDA $2140
      CMP #$0A
      BEQ +
      CMP #$0D
      BEQ +
      RTS
+   
      LDA #$01
      STA $1DF9
      LDA #$2A
      STA $1DFC
      RTS

level49:
      LDA $2140
      CMP #$0A
      BEQ +
      CMP #$0D
      BEQ +
      RTS
+   
      LDA #$01
      STA $1DF9
      LDA #$2A
      STA $1DFC
      RTS

level95:
      LDA $2140
      CMP #$0A
      BEQ +
      CMP #$0D
      BEQ +
      RTS
+   
      LDA #$01
      STA $1DF9
      LDA #$2A
      STA $1DFC
      RTS

2F and 49 would have 'light' coming from the top, getting darker toward the bottom, and the opposite for the other two

[kil3]

Code: Select all

level2F:
      LDA $2140
      CMP #$0A
      BEQ +
      CMP #$0D
      BEQ +
      RTS
+   
      LDA #$01
      STA $1DF9
      LDA #$2A
      STA $1DFC
      RTS

level47:
      LDA $2140
      CMP #$0A
      BEQ +
      CMP #$0D
      BEQ +
      RTS
+   
      LDA #$01
      STA $1DF9
      LDA #$2A
      STA $1DFC
      RTS

level49:
      LDA $2140
      CMP #$0A
      BEQ +
      CMP #$0D
      BEQ +
      RTS
+   
      LDA #$01
      STA $1DF9
      LDA #$2A
      STA $1DFC
      RTS

level95:
      LDA $2140
      CMP #$0A
      BEQ +
      CMP #$0D
      BEQ +
      RTS
+   
      LDA #$01
      STA $1DF9
      LDA #$2A
      STA $1DFC
      RTS

2F and 49 would have 'light' coming from the top, getting darker toward the bottom, and the opposite for the other two

If the code is being used in many places one thing that might be helpful to tidy up is make a subroutine. Actually... I think you could just do JSR Level2F and it would work.

Code: Select all

level2F:
      LDA $2140
      CMP #$0A
      BEQ +
      CMP #$0D
      BEQ +
      RTS
+   
      LDA #$01
      STA $1DF9
      LDA #$2A
      STA $1DFC
      RTS

level47:
JSR Level2F
      RTS

level49:
JSR Level2F
      RTS

level95:
JSR Level2F
      RTS

Same thing but it just jumps to the first code instead of using extra space. Someone tell me if im being stupid and forgetting something obvious.

[Wyatt]

made it so in many places, if you fall in a hole instead of dying you restart that part of the level (first room except the last jump, latter part of second room, all of autoscroll room, all but last screen of forest room)

I just fell into the hole at the end of the second sublevel and it teleported me to the third

[Tails_155]

made it so in many places, if you fall in a hole instead of dying you restart that part of the level (first room except the last jump, latter part of second room, all of autoscroll room, all but last screen of forest room)

I just fell into the hole at the end of the second sublevel and it teleported me to the third

Yeah, don't have a hole on the same screen as the exit.

[raocow]

Oh, woops! I actually modified one of the sublevels for that, didn't think of that one!

[Cup]

Well, it's a raocow level. It's a little bit more fun in retrospect but just a little. :/

I normally try to check out everything, but I'm exhausted and I don't want to even look at the level again, let alone replay to try and find the path to the chest. I may try that tomorrow or something after I've had a breather. I'm just glad I made it through. I couldn't do it all savestateless. I started that way, but even though I was taking things very slowly a few too many obstacles were too surprising for my reflexes and required me to visit those reset doors a few too many times. I started caving a little after the midpoint. I think I would have to play this level over several days if I wanted to beat it without savestates. I mean, yeah, it's hard. Nothing inherently wrong with that I suppose, but I think it would be more fun if it was a little more forgiving. I certainly don't ever want to play it again, but I do want to find out how to get to the chest, so I'll probably have to at some point.

Atmospherically, it's amazing. I don't think I've seen a level of yours that hasn't been fun just to stand there for a few minutes, unmoving, soaking it all in. It's when you need to start going places that it feels to me that something has gone slightly awry. Thankfully the level has no time limit so I spent probably a good 2 or 3 minutes just running back and forth looking at my surroundings and enjoying the music in each new sublevel (partly because I wasn't ready to deal with anymore mushrooms at the time). So the atmosphere is a huge redeeming factor. Great job to both Wyatt and you for the music. I imagine getting the HDMA working will add quite a bit too.

I thought this part was pretty funny. There had to be a catch!


But then I did get myself stuck though. I think that may happen to a lot of people since I was trying to find the optimal angle to get back down so I could avoid the mushrooms, and because it took me a while to get up there while avioding the mushrooms. So you may want to find a way to let the player out. Maybe just rope off the top so they can jump out?


Nothing else overly glitchy caught my eye, but I was basically just trying to get through the level, so I might have missed a few things.

In summary. Too hard for my taste, but to each their own. Amazing atmosphere. Stuck in a box. I do recommend you tone it down just a little though... but only a little. :D

[Ometeotl]

Can someone explain the correct method of making an .IPS?

[flameofdoubt]

Ometeotl: You need to use LIPS, and have a clean rom, and LIPS will tell you what to do from there.

[Ometeotl]

That's what I thought, but the patch it made was 900+ KB, which I assume means something went wrong.

[xjC0n]

@raocow:

The main problem I have with this level is that there sometimes was no real indication where there was hidden mushrooms, invisible coin-blocks and sprite-only blocks. I guess the hidden mushrooms is the gimmick sort of, even though it doesn't kill you it still felt unfair in a way. I honestly don't know what to say about that since you can easily reset at all times..

In the area that starts off with a skull raft, the Cotopaxi Coin (is this even the right name?) disappeared when I entered a reset door. Was that intended or did something go wrong?

In the auto-scrolling area, I thought the doors were just decoration. Didn't realize until I had to enter the last door, but I was still confused for a short while. Maybe make those more obvious?

In the area with the stunning thwomps, what was that springboard for? And what was that door with the turnblock underneath it for? Was it supposed to lead somewhere else, because it acted like a reset-door? Also, when I had the P-switch above the second stunning thwomp, I somehow managed to glitch into a wall when it stunned me.. I dropped it and it made me slide into the wall. Make that place a little wider.

I guess the key in the phanto-room was only for getting down to the chest?

It looks like you're pretty much done, but an idea for a sublevel: Give the player a power-up, then make him/her find a way to get hit.

[raocow]

In the forest submap, up there where you'd use the springboard is the cotopaxi coin. I guess I should do like the first subarea and make the lower half visible or something, hmm..

I'm breathing in all this feedback, keep it coming!

[Tails_155]

That's what I thought, but the patch it made was 900+ KB, which I assume means something went wrong.

Not at all, my IPS for the newest version is like 800 kb, and yours probably has more stuff.

[Ometeotl]

Ok, first .IPS for my level. It's not finished, and there are some issues I'm aware of (and some I'm not, I'm sure).

First, yes, the camera at the beginning scrolling down below the ground. I'll fix that after it is decided whether or not that one midpoint patch will be included (depending on the choice, the solution to the issue changes).

Also, the lava splashes in one sublevel are glitched, which I'll fix before final release.

In another sublevel, the Sink Slow, Move Fast tiles don't work like they're supposed to, so I hope that will be fixed by the next baseROM update.

There are two custom music slots inserted so far, and they're mostly just to hear how they sound ingame. Sublevel placement of said music is subject to change.

Level has no official name yet.

[Wyatt]

@raocow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0lGn-S1WeQ

And more feedback: The reset holes in the first two sublevels feel unnecessary: in the first level you wouldn't be losing much progress at all from dying, and in the second you're far more likely to be killed by lava or have to reset because of a powerup. Only leave reset holes in the third sublevel (I'm only considering the first half of the level here.) Also it'd be nice to be able to tell which holes reset you and which ones kill you. Maybe have the reset tiles be a single-color (possibly flashing?) square instead of invisible.

level

JESUS CHRIST WHY IS THE MUSIC SO LOUD

I like level's "gimmick". You might want to disable the ability to punch the wall though.

Vanilla graphics don't really work that well: change them. There's a part in the second sublevel where thwomps come down with no indication: put a coin trail in a safe place or something I guess?

The homing bullet bills are rubbish. That enemy's not fun here, and he's never been fun anywhere else.

I liked the first half of the level, but the second half is really, really hard. It's worth noting that I've seen quite a few level submissions that use a lot of different types of hammer bros: it doesn't work particularly well here, you might want to revise your enemy choices.

Didn't finish the level because I don't feel like I can give decent feedback if I'm savescumming. I might give it a go later, but for god's sake tone down the second half some!