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Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comments

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spitznagl
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by spitznagl »

Argumentable: :| Not liking that the first area is too short and that the second is too hard (in a dick way)? I have to agree with both aspects when though of separately, but the "concept" of the level is to have it lie to the player (no secret exit here + text box), make it really short and add a couple of hints showing that there might be more than just that one screen and then make the hidden area really hard, kind of a gauntlet/security system thing where the player should feel like he's not supposed to be there.

I think that both aspects are justified when though off in that way, but if it makes both parts not fun, I'm not going to try imposing my level to the game.

No bad feelings here ;). I was wondering if it would be fun to play by someone who's not aware of all the traps. BTW, the trick with the disco is to get it to flip the turn block, get the mushroom hidden next to the purple coin and slide through the hole.

7TC7:

-I liked!!!!!!

-The water/ground checkerboard pattern is a neat touch. Have you considered playing with different dither patterns?

-The only section that felt boring to me was the one with the different characters and figures floating in the water. It's a great idea considering your tileset, but I personally would add more of those objects in that area and make them intersect together, without making it a maze though. It would still be a swimming section with not much to do, but with more to look at, it would certainly feel more complete.

-I really liked the transitions from water to ground and vice versa. It feels like pressurized rooms under the sea or something. It would be really nice IMO to have those more present, but I guess that you might not feel like making this kind of change at this stage.
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by Argumentable »

I just think the second area would be better if everything was telegraphed a bit better. I didn't know to watch out for the lava (twice) until I fell in it. I didn't know to jump up and stop the green goopa until it fell on me. Et cetera. Hell, I almost killed the disco shell except I had a feeling I was going to need it
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by spitznagl »

Alright, I'll try to make the traps more predictable. The easiest one to correct would be the green koopa with an upward arrow, but in all cases, the players would most certainly still get the initial death from not knowing the exact timing or placement. I guess it would still remove a bit of the "dickiness" so I will follow your advice. Thank you for your relevant opinion and tips.
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by Kopasznyaku »

So far I've made about half of a level (I figure this will probably be the second half). However, I seem to have some sprite problems with the background...dunno what's wrong since it looks perfectly fine in Lunar Magic. But the level should still be perfectly playable, the only problem is that the background may be a bit distracting. Also, for what it's worth, my level is where you start on the Yoshi's House

http://depositfiles.com/files/300qnmtkf

Curious to know what you guys think of it.
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7TC7
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by 7TC7 »

spitznagl wrote:-I liked!!!!!!
Thank you!
spitznagl wrote:-The water/ground checkerboard pattern is a neat touch. Have you considered playing with different dither patterns?
I tried a few different things. The checkerboard is the only one, that really seemed to look right. The transition to the big water part is actually a bit different, but it's really not very obvious.
spitznagl wrote:-The only section that felt boring to me was the one with the different characters and figures floating in the water. It's a great idea considering your tileset, but I personally would add more of those objects in that area and make them intersect together, without making it a maze though. It would still be a swimming section with not much to do, but with more to look at, it would certainly feel more complete.
I think you ment something different, when you said "intersect them", but I changed them. They no longer are a lot of single pictures but now try to tell a little story. Thats nice, I hope. Also, they do intersect a little!
I didn't want to make that part of the swimming section a maze of any kind, as you have to go through it twice (or trice) to get the chest of the stage. I actually put the two blue goopas at the beginning of the water part there, so that it is possible to steal their shells for faster swimming (or getting rid of those pesky Rip-van-fish).
spitznagl wrote:-I really liked the transitions from water to ground and vice versa. It feels like pressurized rooms under the sea or something. It would be really nice IMO to have those more present, but I guess that you might not feel like making this kind of change at this stage.
Yeah, it's a bit hard to change many big scale things like that at this point. Anyways, happy you like it.

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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

http://www.mediafire.com/?co719mz6g4d1hp0

It's a bit of a Brain using type of level so I don't know if it is really fair. I did test it with none of the switch palaces so the game play should be easier.

Edit: Will the backgrounds be changed to standard A2MT backgrounds in the final game, because I don't have the knowledge on how to do that.
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by limepie20 »

Septentrion Pleiades wrote:Edit: Will the backgrounds be changed to standard A2MT backgrounds in the final game, because I don't have the knowledge on how to do that.
If you can't make one, an easy solution would be to "steal" a background from another level. You're welcome to use resources from other level unless for some reason, the creator of the level doesn't want anything taken from it (which we haven't had any of). If you see a background that fits, just use the poison mushroom to see what gfx they used for their background and then use that gfx file in the same slot for your level and use the "Copy Background Image..." button under the Level bar at the top and type in their level number.
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by Paralars »

Septentrion:
I really liked the theme of the level from the moment I opened it and also the thought behind the gameplay, because those rooms are really huge and overwhelming at first.
Stuff:
Cutoff with a corner tile right at the start, there is also cutoff with pipes to the right.
There are some pipe junction tiles for that (ExGFX135, if you put it into BG2, you can use those from map16 page 0x2.
The BG is cut off as well, if you keep that.
Vines can also create cutoff.
The palette of some sprites aren't good.
The dinorhinos are just weird and the venus fire plants are plain black (you can solve this by copying the right half of palette A down to palettes C and D, use a custom palette for that).
I like the messageboxes a lot. (But correct the non-pokemon one please, grammer 'n' stuff)
Consider replaceing cement blocks with something that looks better, especially if you just try to paint over cliff edges with that, use map16 if necessary!
There are some wierd high pitched beeps at some times, i don't know if they're sound effects or part of the music, but that has to be fixed.
Your sprite graphics are messed up somehow, the bullets use different graphics (old/new) in different levels, the eeries flicker between two versions. The note block sprites are missing (in SP2).
The ghost part doors all lead back to the first sublevel so you have to go all the way back and get a new P, that's okay for a ghost house puzzle segment, but your time limit is very low, I recommend setting it to 0.
You are giving away capes, they are sometimes mandatory, sometimes they aren't, for example the first jump to the left over spikes in the ghost part requires a cape, try making that more consistent.
Phew...

About the background: The diagonal scrolling bars are actually pretty nice.
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

Paralars wrote:Septentrion:
Cutoff with a corner tile right at the start, there is also cutoff with pipes to the right.
There are some pipe junction tiles for that (ExGFX135, if you put it into BG2, you can use those from map16 page 0x2....

....Consider replaceing cement blocks with something that looks better, especially if you just try to paint over cliff edges with that, use map16 if necessary!
I haven't used Map 16 before. I would have to GFX in the ROM right?
Paralars wrote: The BG is cut off as well, if you keep that.
Ice world right? I used a lot of secondary exits and I think it's likely there.
Vines can also create cutoff.
Replaced with inv coin blocks.
The palette of some sprites aren't good.
The dinorhinos are just weird and the venus fire plants are plain black (you can solve this by copying the right half of palette A down to palettes C and D, use a custom palette for that).
I'm honestly not sure if that would require claiming more parts of the ROM. Do custom palettes exist only in a level?
I like the messageboxes a lot. (But correct the non-pokemon one please, grammer 'n' stuf
noted
There are some wierd high pitched beeps at some times, i don't know if they're sound effects or part of the music, but that has to be fixed.
The only thing I encountered like that are the decoy goal posts. I thought they were suppose to be like that.
Your sprite graphics are messed up somehow, the bullets use different graphics (old/new) in different levels, the eeries flicker between two versions. The note block sprites are missing (in SP2).
I'll look into that
The ghost part doors all lead back to the first sublevel so you have to go all the way back and get a new P, that's okay for a ghost house puzzle segment, but your time limit is very low, I recommend setting it to 0.
Done.
You are giving away capes, they are sometimes mandatory, sometimes they aren't, for example the first jump to the left over spikes in the ghost part requires a cape, try making that more consistent.
Phew...
I wouldn't be to hard if I remove them all together, would it?
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by Paralars »

you don't need to remove the feathers (I think they are pretty helpful at travelling around that huge room), just change the parts where you absolutely need one to pass without taking damage.

And you don't need to claim any more resources unless you create your own map16 blocks.
Custom palettes are saved together with the level they are used in, just click the Star button, enable custom palette and the palette changes you make only affect the level you are in, that's the whole story. (you can copy and paste colors with Ctrl+left click and Ctrl+right click)

For using the pipe junction tiles, click the red poison mushroom button, enable GFX bypass.
Now you put the graphics file 135 into slot BG2 (labelled) like I mentioned.
That graphics file contains the pipe junction graphics.
Now you go to the "add objects" window or what it's called, choose map16 access from the dropdown menu, scroll to the third page there (page 0x2) and you can copy all the tiles you need off the tileset. (Left click/Right click)

if you don't want to use map16 to make your own blocks you don't have to, but you can still find something nicer for the cemet blocks in some instances.

With cut off background I mean the diagonal bars, there is just a tiny bit missing in the top left corner of the background image.

You don't absolutely need to remove the vines, you can just add a cement block to stop the vine from chewing all the way up through your landmasses.
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by TheGuyWhoIsSitting »

I don't know how much of an issue this is going to be, I did a little more work on my level, I can remember pretty much everything I did until my last back up, but my Desktop is on the fritz, it wont turn on properly and it wont output a video signal to my monitor, it shouldn't impede my progress, I hope. But this was really just perfect timing... I think I might be able to get the most up to date files off that hard drive, but if push comes to shove I didn't lose that much progress.
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by TomPhanto »

Level 11E

This is the first draft of my second level.
My idea for the level was to have a junction that connected two paths. The first path being fire and the other, ice. My idea was to make it the connecting level between the fire and ice worlds.
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by Isocitration »

Okay so since no one has provided feedback in the last month or so I decided to completely redo the sublevel that I was dissatisfied with. I think it's much better now (though completely different).

Also, the custom MISC songs are silent for some reason, so just be aware that the star and goal music won't play.

There's two exits and of course the chest to find.
DSotM.zip
If I don't get any feedback this time I think I'll just go straight to clearing.
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by Argumentable »

Isocitration wrote: DSotM.zip

If I don't get any feedback this time I think I'll just go straight to clearing.
I played this, it seemed fine to me. I have two "minor annoyance" fixes to suggest but even with those I'd go ahead and clear it if it was in the clearing thread (if you want to speed things up just go ahead and submit it and link this post or something saying I would clear it)
a2tm - dsotm_00003.png
I would remove the two coins beside the parrot coin because they turn into blocks and make it very minorly annoying to get!!!
a2tm - dsotm_00002.png
Also I'd raise/lower one of these pipes so you have a 3 block space just to make it easier to get through with yoshi

But like I said these are very minor things and possibly even personal preference. Everything else I can't really think of a decent criticism about (maybe give the player more room to walk when you first visit the chest path), I found everything okay, nothing dickish, secret path and chest paths were a little more difficult than the main path as I feel they should be. So yeah, all good in my eyes. I'd still wait and see if anything else had something to say before rushing off to get it cleared, of course.
Also I can't believe you guys actually used clownball
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

http://www.mediafire.com/?2mfie0038d2y3mm

Here is my new version. I made quite a few improvements. I decided to go back to the third portion being timed although I did give it more than last time. Also I don't understand why Paralars said the dinorhinos were weird. I thought that is how they are suppose to look in this hack. I might make some graphic improvements later on but I think I'm finished on level design.
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by yogui »

Septentrion Pleiades wrote:Also I don't understand why Paralars said the dinorhinos were weird. I thought that is how they are suppose to look in this hack.
The graphism are correct, but the palette is bad. Change the sprite palette to 0 to fix that.

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There is a glitch when you hit blocks with dirt behind, you can see the background (=cut-off).

And I think there is some problem with the custom musics, I hear some harsh beep sound sometimes. Maybe you used an old addmusic? Or maybe it's my emulator's fault. I dunno.

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Also, a minor cut-off here that most people won't notice, but it's still a cut-off.

About the level: At first I thought it was just a normal level, a little boring, with dino rhino. And then I saw it was a big puzzle maze p-switch pipe parallel world party. Holy banana.
I haven't found the exit and the chest yet, but I will play it again later.
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by Paralars »

The dinorhinos have the correct graphics, but you should notice that their palette looks ugly.
Since you have no custom palette in 10F, you can just change the premade sprite palette in the dropdown box from 4 to 0/2/5/6.
The time limit with the sudden music change gives the ghost part a nice effect, where you have to figure it out in time or take one of the "emergency doors" to restart.
I recommend using the A2MT reset doors for those, you can insert them just like the pipe junctions, they are on the same graphics file and map16 page.
The "grains" in the landmasses in the icy part don't really fit, you should have a look at palette 2 there and experiment a bit with colors.
And your pro tip messagebox still has horrible grammar.
Well, even though I have no idea how to beat the ghost level part, I think you can go to Clearing after you take care of these things
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by Isocitration »

Thanks Argu. Fixed up both of the things you mentioned (as well as extending the chest path entrance platform).
Argumentable wrote:Also I can't believe you guys actually used clownball
Actually, it's just me using it! The exgfx for it aren't actually in the base rom as far as I know.
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by Paralars »

TomPhanto:
Man, I read your description, saw the two pipes and thought
"There is gonna be a fire path and an ice path and they will be different and in character of their element"

Then I played the fire path first and I liked it.
(The melon block palettes don't fit)
Then I played the icy path and was kinda disappointed, it's basically the same tileset and sprite set, except slippery and hued blueish, I expected replacement for the things in the other path fitting the ice theme (for example you could have fireball bros and iceball bros), but you used pendulums, hotheads, podobos and lava in the icy path... yeah, wasted potential with that level idea I'd say, no offense.

What you did good was for example putting all the 5 coins in the one path and the treasure in the other, that's a good example of "opposite" element you could place in the sublevels, even if just exGFX.

You probably won't want to change anything anymore, since you already finished your level, just pointing that out. (You can still rework the level with an interesting, simple map16 tileset or some exGFX for sprites if you're interested in improving your level some more)

You should change the part with the pencils where there is one coming from the top and one coming from the ground, the bottom one doesn't let you walk over even if it's fully retracted.

The entrance room doesn't really fit with the Yoshi's Island 2 tileset, it should probably start in a cave or a cave entrance, right now it doesn't look good.

Overall I like your level gameplay-wise, it's not too hard.
It's just that the two paths don't seem very balanced, because they are too similarly themed and the ice path seems longer and harder to me (because it's basically the same but slippery)
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by Cmbheadquarters »

http://bin.smwcentral.net/u/15352/024%2BAir%2BArena.ips

It's been a long time since I updated, the boss screwed up which put me off, so now it has only a mid way boss, then a goal poast. I think you'll like it. I really do think it is finished. (And I hope so too! Since the FINAL DEADLINE Thing.)

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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by Wyatt »

CMB:
-Dear god there is so much echo on this music. Post the music code and I'll try and make it more reasonable
-Time limit feels short, try 400
-I didn't find the chest
-The boss is too hard. His first four hits are fine, but after that it comes down to praying that he won't be throwing a thing when you decide to jump on him. He should probably home in on you less, so that you can still get behind him to some extent. The final hit I just lucked into first try, but it has the same problem and I'm not too sure how to fix it.
-Escalators look cut off in second section. Morton's Castle had escalators, so look at that if you need some help.
-Put the boss at the end. Right now the pacing feels very off, and also you can walk back to the boss from the midpoint which doesn't make any sense.

Despite the problems, the actual level design is spot-on. You CAN get this level ready before the deadline, good luck on doing so!

EDIT: Difficulty is ★★☆ ignoring the boss issues.
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

This might be the clearing version

http://www.mediafire.com/?ysmm7lddr8foljy

I'm not exactly sure if your music problem was the one I fixed. The Deadweight Bros were making awful noises that seemed part of the music so I replaced them with Sledge Bros. Is that the the music problem you were talking about?

The grains were changed to light blue, as I thought they looked better than removing them.

I also had a captain check my grammar. I assume it was the "s" in "gives" that was bothering paralars. it is now "give".

The reset doors would be better without the arrows, but I think the purpose of the doors is clearer now.
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by 7TC7 »

spitznagl wrote:-I liked!!!!!!
Thank you!
spitznagl wrote:-The water/ground checkerboard pattern is a neat touch. Have you considered playing with different dither patterns?
I tried a few different things. The checkerboard is the only one, that really seemed to look right. The transition to the big water part is actually a bit different, but it's really not very obvious.
spitznagl wrote:-The only section that felt boring to me was the one with the different characters and figures floating in the water. It's a great idea considering your tileset, but I personally would add more of those objects in that area and make them intersect together, without making it a maze though. It would still be a swimming section with not much to do, but with more to look at, it would certainly feel more complete.
I think you ment something different, when you said "intersect them", but I changed them. They no longer are a lot of single pictures but now try to tell a little story. Thats nice, I hope. Also, they do intersect a little!
I didn't want to make that part of the swimming section a maze of any kind, as you have to go through it twice (or trice) to get the chest of the stage. I actually put the two blue goopas at the beginning of the water part there, so that it is possible to steal their shells for faster swimming (or getting rid of those pesky Rip-van-fish).
spitznagl wrote:-I really liked the transitions from water to ground and vice versa. It feels like pressurized rooms under the sea or something. It would be really nice IMO to have those more present, but I guess that you might not feel like making this kind of change at this stage.
Yeah, it's a bit hard to change many big scale things like that at this point. Anyways, happy you like it.
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by Paralars »

the deadwight bros weren't the bleeps, maybe it's just me, whatever.
I noticed the treasure box sometimes doesnt spawn, because of the ghosts and eeries I guess.
Whatever, you should post in Clearing now.
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline Nov. 17th

Post by TomPhanto »

The first screen will NOT be final. But I'll start the ice path all over. I'm also planning to use different graphics for the two areas.
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