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Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comments

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Awakenyourmind
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by Awakenyourmind »

I uploaded my resources a bit back and sort of organized them with text docs. Would this be fine?

http://bin.smwcentral.net/u/13122/A2MT% ... ources.zip

Also here would be the IPS patch: http://bin.smwcentral.net/u/13122/A2MT% ... d%2529.ips
Awakenyourmind
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by Awakenyourmind »

I just posted it here to make sure it's ready before I posted it in the submission thread. I've got the post copied so you can delete these posts and I'll post it in that thread. :)
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TheGuyWhoIsSitting
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by TheGuyWhoIsSitting »

I just thought I should check in on this thread, so you know that I'm doing work on the credits, it's just that this week (technically last week at this point, but the 24-30th) was a bit busier than I had anticipated. I do have something to show for my efforts, but it's nothing amazing. It's just the bare bones of me trying to make a font for 16x16 space, since that will make the most of the Map 16 area I have. I'll try to focus on this and get some actual in game stuff at some point, I just didn't have as much time as I thought I would have had.
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Kerkec
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by Kerkec »

I guess I should post something here. I feel it's probably too underwhelming, at least visually and conceptually, but opinions would be nice, in any case. I'm not really sure what all to say about it. Calleoca is apparently a shapeshifter, so my first thought was to use switch blocks, since that's kind of like shapeshifting the land, but... does it really get the point across enough? I kind of feel like maybe I should redo the whole thing. If not, it probably needs more graphics for the beginning and end, at least, because those turn block tiles are kind of overused, I think. There's one part towards the middle that's kind of noticeably more difficult than the rest, too, and it can also become unwinnable if you throw your shell away early, which there isn't too much of an indication not to do. So that's probably not very fair on a first try. And now I'm kind of rambling on and probably saying everything you all will probably say, so I should leave it at this.

Personally, I'm pleased with how it plays, but that's about it. Also, unless Calleoca also has some sort of obsession with penguins and/or crane games, I think I kind of strayed too far from the idea of a level centered around a character

Whoops

Side note: The level forces the timer to 175. I used to have it set to slowly autoscroll instead, but while that was doable, I think it may have only been because I knew everything that was coming. It would probably take many deaths otherwise. So time limit is probably a better option here, I think?

Also, not all of the blocks are switch blocks. Some of them are always solid, but they have the same graphics, so you can't really tell here.
Level0B5.png
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Kerkec
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by Kerkec »

alex2 wrote:Turnblock galore. Try to tone that down by like...300%.

For the shell issue, try having a shell spawner instead (assuming it wouldn't break your level).

I think your level is a little too...barren. It's a bit too focused on jumping from block to block (which isn't a bad thing in a lot of cases, but it doesn't feel good here).
Yeah, I plan to throw in some custom graphics to replace a lot of those turnblocks at the beginning and end, they're kind of just filler right now.

As for the shell spawner... I'm not sure how they work or where I would put it, but I'll look into it, I guess? Is there already one in the baserom?

And yeah, it is really empty. Maybe I could just mask it behind graphics, but I might just redesign most of it. I like how the ending turned out, though, it's a lot busier. It just needs to look better.

Also, the first post in this thread says not to use certain colors on the palettes, but the image it refers to seems to be missing? Or am I just overlooking/misunderstanding something?
Last edited by Kerkec 11 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Frozelar
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by Frozelar »

Yeah, I think those turn blocks are overused a bit. I think it's fine when they're not used in large numbers, like for example a three-tile-wide platform, but otherwise I think it might look neater if you used different graphics for where they're in large numbers, like at the beginning and end.

Also... are the on/off switches controlling the turn-block-looking blocks, or the thin platforms, or both, or what? I think we would benefit from me actually playing the level rather than looking at a picture. Just sayin'

Also I like those... arm things that are holding shells and switches and stuff. They look nice. Although I'm really not as familiar with the A2MT graphics so I don't know if they were already there or if you imported them or what. I should probably go refresh myself....

Yeah, it's hard to really review this unless I play it. Maybe an IPS or something would be nice?

also apparently now I'm contributing to a2mt again
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Kerkec
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by Kerkec »

Frozelar wrote:Yeah, I think those turn blocks are overused a bit. I think it's fine when they're not used in large numbers, like for example a three-tile-wide platform, but otherwise I think it might look neater if you used different graphics for where they're in large numbers, like at the beginning and end.

Also... are the on/off switches controlling the turn-block-looking blocks, or the thin platforms, or both, or what? I think we would benefit from me actually playing the level rather than looking at a picture. Just sayin'

Also I like those... arm things that are holding shells and switches and stuff. They look nice. Although I'm really not as familiar with the A2MT graphics so I don't know if they were already there or if you imported them or what. I should probably go refresh myself....

Yeah, it's hard to really review this unless I play it. Maybe an IPS or something would be nice?

also apparently now I'm contributing to a2mt again
Thin platforms? If I understand right, those are just turn blocks set to the other on/off position. So those are just non-solid turn blocks at the start.

I'll work on making those large groups into something that looks not-as-bad, as well. And yeah, I made those arm things! Thanks :3

And yeah, I can get an ips, I just didn't know if people would have the time to bother with anything more than an image at this point. Uhhh, but, since this is a sublevel, how should I go about doing this? I just stuck a temporary door on the first screen of another level for testing purposes, but should I not do that, or
Frozelar
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by Frozelar »

Nah, just sticking a pipe or something in the first level is fine I think. That's what I did with my switch palace half for testing, anyways. And yeah, I'd definitely be willing to playtest it in a little while.
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Kerkec
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by Kerkec »

Alrighty, then here ya go. Hopefully I didn't break anything. The door's in Parrot's place on the second screen. Along with a radish to test it while big as well.

Also, uh, I'm not sure how to get custom music to work. As in, the death and level clear sound in my sublevel are the default vanilla stuff. What do I do about this?

My question about palettes from my other post still stands, too. I think that's something I need to know, because one of the colors I used did change the hud, and it sounds like that can't happen?
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by Frozelar »

As far as the music, you inserted the sound effects right? Like, first you did AddMusic.exe ROMname.smc -se right? Well, I'm assuming you're using Romi's Addmusic. Anyways, if you did that then I really don't know. Unless you accidentally missed a step in inserting it or something.

As far as your level, yeah playing it definitely helped. After playing it toolless for about 30 minutes I just decided to started using tools because I had other stuff I needed to do. Although the level seemed very very possible to do toolless and I probably would have done it had I not had other things to do. But anyways, it was a little awkward having those gray arm things solid, but it was very easy to get used to.

So I'd say all that you really have to do to this level here is maybe get some more interesting graphics and maybe make it less empty or something. Like, maybe some scenery tiles.

All in all, I found it really enjoyable.
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Kerkec
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by Kerkec »

Yeah, I'll definitely add in some scenery tiles to make things less empty.

And for the music, uhhhhhhh, no, I actually didn't because I had no idea how that stuff works. I got a tutorial now and tried it out, but I somehow removed the custom sound effects?? They used to play everywhere but in my level, now they just don't exist at all. I'm doing a pretty good job of this.

But anyway, thanks for the feedback!
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by Frozelar »

Kerkec wrote:Yeah, I'll definitely add in some scenery tiles to make things less empty.

And for the music, uhhhhhhh, no, I actually didn't because I had no idea how that stuff works. I got a tutorial now and tried it out, but I somehow removed the custom sound effects?? They used to play everywhere but in my level, now they just don't exist at all. I'm doing a pretty good job of this.

But anyway, thanks for the feedback!
I also forgot to mention also I like the beginning of your level. Like, I mean graphically. How there are the castle scenery tiles that just kinda fade away. I dunno, I just saw it and was like "man that looks neat. Sometimes it's the little things that really count!"

Also sorry, I'm really not good with the music stuff. If I was I'd try to help you further. Best of luck with your issue.
Awakenyourmind
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by Awakenyourmind »

@Kerkec: Does your addmusic folder have a sound effects txt file? That file loads the SFX into your rom like the add music .txt.
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Kerkec
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by Kerkec »

Franky wrote:@Kerkec: Does your addmusic folder have a sound effects txt file? That file loads the SFX into your rom like the add music .txt.
Yeah, it did. But I figured out what the 'problem' was. It was me being stupid again. I wasn't aware that you had to set the level to use custom music for those things to work. I used the bypass, but I was just using the vanilla boss battle music at the time. Whoops.

Thanks for the help, though! And Frozelar, thanks again for the feedback!

Also, I started on some graphics. I'm going to need to relocate my map16 reservations, though... I horribly underestimated how much I would need.
calleocaprogress.png
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by Frozelar »

Oh wow, I see designing this type of art is one of your strong points. I bet this will look pretty neat when it's finished!
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Kerkec
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by Kerkec »

Ahaha, thanks. I wouldn't say art is usually one of my strong points, but I guess working in 16x16 tiles is easy enough!

Speaking of that, here's an updated ips. (More updated ips in next post) Entrance is still in the same place for testing purposes. It's basically the exact same level, but hopefully it feels less empty now. Any common tips I should follow to improve this any more?
Last edited by Kerkec 11 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Awakenyourmind
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by Awakenyourmind »

Wyatt wrote:I'm advocating no midpoint between sections at all! The level would be your entire thing, then a midpoint, then the final boss. I genuinely think this wouldn't be harder than those levels I mentioned in my last post!

I'd really like for testers to try getting through everything with no midpoint. It's really not that bad: Any of the last set of doors can be reasonably beaten first try if the player's being cautious. Also, keep in mind that testers are probably playing without the yellow switch, so they're missing power-ups that'll show up in the actual game!

EDIT: Just tested the new IPS, why'd you change around the door order? I thought it was way better before.
The order can be changed. I just tried to balance everything myself. I don't mind if the order is changed. Though are you going to be working on the song soon?
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Kerkec
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by Kerkec »

Forget my previous post, I added one more graphical detail, so have this link instead.

I'm kind of stumped on what else to do. I feel it's alright, but I need more feedback on it.
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by spitznagl »

@Kerkec

I have not played your previous versions so I can't compare, but I really like what you have done graphic wise. I wouldn't worry about that aspect anymore if I were you.

I also really enjoyed your level design. There are many cool parts, especially towards the end, but there are also some bits that bothered me that could be easily changed. Just my opinion, I have no power over what you need to do.

-Some of the switches that didn't need a shell to hit were really hard to reach when small. Since there are no hazards in your level, I think that you should put a power-up at the beginning of the level for consistency's sake.
Image
-The shell misses the switched if you stand on the left half of the block. Hard to predict without losing at least one life.
Image
-Not a fan of this area. Those three jumps are a bit harsh considering that you need to keep the shell. It's all doable, but the other parts are just so much more interesting.

-I agree with Frozelar that it's weird to have the gray arm solid. I tried it with the two fingers and the pole acting as 40 (no collision) and the three tiles of the body as 100 (rope platform). It was much easier to navigate and it was nearly all compatible. The only exceptions were the last part I mentioned, where you could jump from arm to arm and near the end where the shell could get stuck on the hooks when you throw it upward if you miss the switches. That could be fixed with "act as 40" duplicates of the tiles where the arms are unreachable.

-The time limit didn't seem necessary to me.

Other than that, the rest was all pretty great. ;)
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Kerkec
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by Kerkec »

Thanks for the good feedback! I've slightly reworked some of it based on what you said.

-I added a power-up near the beginning, since you're right, there's really no reason not to

-I did not change the area where the shell misses if you're on the left side of that block, because the shell can be respawned if you go back a bit. The player doesn't have to lose a life over it, and I don't see it being too much of an issue since the player would become aware of it after the first time. Also I'm too lazy to think of another way to set up that section right now

-I did slightly change the next area you mentioned. You still need to keep the red shell to hit the switch one more time once you get down there, but I didn't find that too difficult in testing it myself. You at least don't have to grab the shell mid-air after it hits the switch anymore. I also had to alter the next bit too, since there was no way to easily get a shell there anymore. That's what the ?-block is.
calleocaprogress2.png
-I made the arm's fingers act as 40 so Demo wouldn't bump her head as much, but the rest is still solid. I tried what you said, but I felt this worked better, personally. Although if enough people feel otherwise, I guess I can set it up the way you said and change things some more so that the un-solid poles don't break things.

-The time limit isn't really meant to be too challenging or anything, I just thought it would add something to the level with the sense of urgency and such. Since this is essentially in place of a boss, as far as I understand?
I have no problems getting rid of it if it's really just not a good idea, but I left it in for now.

...And that's about it, I guess! Thanks again for the ideas and compliments, ahaha :3
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Kerkec
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by Kerkec »

I actually haven't really done anything more than what I said in my previous post, but have an ips file of that stuff instead of just looking at it

I'm not really sure what else to do at this point, though

Should I just take this over to the clearing thread as is, or
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spitznagl
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by spitznagl »

@Kerkec

I like what you have done with the spring board and the switch that you have to duck under.

It does feel ok afterall with just the arm's fingers that act as 40.

Some specific parts are still a bit too hard for me to play the whole thing without tools. It might just be a lack of skill on my end, so not necessarily bad design. I'll still mention the parts I found problematic so that you know.

-The new switch you have to duck under was a bit low and hard to dodge. I could get it right one time out of three.

-The ceiling where you have to jump from the spring board is also quite low.

-The worst is still the area where you have to drop and throw the shell upward. I only succeed those three jumps together without tools about one time out of fifteen.

-The last jump is also hard, but less of a problem.

It might be different in the context of playing the whole hack where I would have had more practice, but now the further I got in 20 minutes was the spring board section. I still think that you have made some great quality work with the level, so hopefully someone with "clearing powers" will try it out.
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spitznagl
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by spitznagl »

Here's what I have done with level 004 so far

Polish Resortski

Image

There's only 4 screens as of now, but it's a bit unusual in structure and gameplay so I would still need some feedback before I keep going and ask for more resources. If you try it out, see if you can find/get the two dragon coins.

The plan is to have the chest and the dragon coins particularly well hidden or hard to reach in the current section and to have another sublevel more action oriented at the end. I will also try to incorporate the line guided platforms. They should fit well with the ski theme.

Feel free to criticize anything.
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by limepie20 »

spitznagl:
What you've got going here seems really interesting, and I am intrigued. I think you can make something really cool out of these components, and I can't wait to see what you do. Great graphics, by the way.
Awakenyourmind
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Re: Testing and Development: Deadline-one week after comment

Post by Awakenyourmind »

Hey guys, here is Iris: http://bin.smwcentral.net/u/13122/Iris.ips

Feedback would be great, anything to improve it. Maybe some more decorating could be done, or maybe it's fine as is? You guys be the judge.

NOTE: Enter "further over there" and use the door.
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