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Base ROM Inclusions

Anthrax 2 Multiply Themodynamics
limepie20
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by limepie20 »

We only have one sample bank right now; I got rid of all of them. So yeah, what else can we do?
S.N.N.
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by S.N.N. »

Hmm...

Merge ExGFX files, perhaps? Delete GFX files that were present in the original game but aren't used in this (eg. anything involving the Peach/Bowser cutscenes at the end)? There's not much left beyond level optimizations, really.
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Wyatt
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by Wyatt »

Would it help to remove the default levels? At a quick glance 103 is still YI3 and 113 is a default level too.
limepie20
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by limepie20 »

Well, those will eventually be replaced by a user-made level, so it wouldn't really matter. The only ones that could be worth removing are sublevels.
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by S.N.N. »

Wyatt wrote:Would it help to remove the default levels? At a quick glance 103 is still YI3 and 113 is a default level too.
You can, but you'll probably save around 1 KB max. The TEST levels all point to the same data, and most of SMW's sublevels use like 50 bytes worth of objects at the most. It wouldn't be worth it.
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Diortem
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by Diortem »

S.N.N. wrote:I hate to be a buzzkill, but you didn't save much space at all (which is shocking - how much did you remove exactly?). The old base ROM was about 3.2 MB, whereas this one is 3.0. Level optimizations should shave off another 100 KB (ideally), but then you're still left with a 2.9 MB ROM, AND you still have a lot of stuff to insert.
Yeah, I noticed that too, it's only just 4 banks. Although, the only real optimizations I used were moving all the seperate patches into the single freespace ($168000) because the entire bank is claimed anyway. And changed the compression to LC_LZ3. There's some other stuff, but that only very minor.

The clean patch I made for Limepie to base this base rom on with patch.asm and all GFX/ExGFX files, but no level & music data was only 880 kB. Therefore, it can only be that the level data is too humongous. I'm not exactly sure how levels are stored, but I guess too heavy use of Map16 data just ruins it. Some levels are built up from Map16 exclusively (and even with a lot of the same 1x1 tiles), but they could just use regular blocks in most cases.
Last edited by Diortem 11 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
S.N.N.
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by S.N.N. »

I don't know who in their right mind would build levels out of 1x1 Map16 tiles, but I've seen it all too often. People need to remember it's a collab hack and not a hack by solely them.

Also, while I'm here, I forgot to suggest that you could also trim down the size of music files. I'm sure a few in there are unlooped and/or huge in general, so perhaps cutting the size down on them or removing them completely may help.
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Diortem
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by Diortem »

Neither do I, SNN. I think retiling those levels and trimming the music can free up a lot of space, since the remaining 2.2 MB comes solely from that data. But retiling the levels to use standard blocks/stretched out chunks of Map16 that would be very tedious work and probably errorprone.
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by S.N.N. »

Putting it into perspective though, would you rather spend several hours optimizing levels, or scrap them entirely and lower the quality of the final product? Because remember, it's not the simple unmemorable vanilla levels that take up space - it's the flashy ones that use a lot of extra stuff. Those would be the first to go.

Find some people willing to help and have at it. Don't attempt to tackle it alone though, or it will likely take you months.
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Diortem
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by Diortem »

It would help to figure out which (sub)levels consume the most level data and work through them in descending order. The easiest way to figure that out is to look at the *.mwl files that are used to insert in the base rom.

Apart from browsing through the submission forum or so, I think maybe Limepie or SystemKrash have the complete set of those files to generate the base rom, if we could just order those by file size the levels that are most benificial for optimization should end up at the top, correct? That makes easy searching, imo.
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by limepie20 »

If that works then this should be all we need.
Here are the first uh a lot of levels in the list.
sizelist1.png
sizelist1.png (7.42 KiB) Viewed 7812 times
sizelist2.png
sizelist2.png (7.2 KiB) Viewed 7812 times
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AUS
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by AUS »

I'm glad my level is so low on the list. :P
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S.N.N.
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by S.N.N. »

..okay wow, I can't say I expected to see levels that are above 10 KB, let alone above 30. Perhaps you can save even more space than I originally thought.

I'm legitimately curious to see what the architecture of those upper-sized levels are, though.
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by limepie20 »

A quick check reveals that most of those levels have big structures all completely made out of single tiles. It's probably what you expected.
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Diortem
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by Diortem »

Once I'm done with the treasure room (which is almost completed), then I'll see what I can do about the top-3 list (levels 130,76,131). Most of the sections can easily be compressed by using groups of map16/regular tiles instead of 1x1 tiles. Just doing that will save 5~10kB for each level.
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Diortem
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by Diortem »

I'm not sure if this is the best place to post this, but I've reduced the level size for 130, 131, & 76 without making the level appear different. I only regrouped the smaller tiles into larger blocks. Because of the awkward Map16 lay-out for $076 it is still suboptimal, but it was the best possible without actually modifying the actual level.

130: 35.6 kB -> 5.86 kB
131: 34.2 kB -> 7.20 kB
076: 34.8 kB -> 12.8 kB

Total reduction >77 kB for just these three.

I'll try the next three (sub)levels according to the list Limepie posted.
Attachments
130,131,076_reduced.zip
levels 130,131,076 after using tile grouping
(15.46 KiB) Downloaded 114 times
limepie20
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by limepie20 »

Alright, I'll probably be trying some of these as well. I thought Alex would make a thread, but he hasn't so anyone can feel free to try optimizing any levels.
I'll go at the next next three: 75, A8, and 1B.
Septentrion Pleiades
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

If what this is stretching 1x1 tiles to reduce the total number of tiles, I think I could do this.

Doing it by 3s
3F,10D,31
Last edited by Septentrion Pleiades 11 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Jesuiscontent
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by Jesuiscontent »

Yeah ok, contributing. I'll take care of 150, 19, 107
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Awakenyourmind
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by Awakenyourmind »

I didn't pay much attention to rom space when I was creating my level. Though, I usually stray away from using a ton of single tiles, and instead extend them. Moreso now days, as SMW2 has more space problems then regular old SMW.

There may be some tiles placed over others, though I don't really remember. It's felt like an eternity since I've added any new content to my level(s)
limepie20
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by limepie20 »

Alex wrote:
limepie20 wrote:I thought Alex would make a thread, but he hasn't
College, man! Moving out of my dorm and getting ready for next year has had me swamped. I was going to make one either tomorrow or Monday, but whatever!
Hey, no problem.
Septentrion Pleiades
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

I think Broke level 3f when I was optimizing it. The watermelon only seems broken but i'm not sure since I can only get up it some of the time. I've never hack with that tile.
It's Systemkrash's and I found a major gameplay bug that was in it. Bringing the P--switch from the bonus room make some platforms not spawn.Systemkrash, could you look over this to make sure it isn't broken?



10D is done
10D.zip
22 KB to 9kb. 13 Saved
(5.13 KiB) Downloaded 107 times
31 is an odd level, i can't see were it gets it's size from. It switches music also. Limepie, What is up with your level?

13 KB saved. I'm only counting 10D until Systemkrash looks at his level.

Edit: fixed 3f's melon.
3F done.zip
22 KB to 9kb. 13 Saved
(4.39 KiB) Downloaded 118 times
26 kb done this post, 103 total
Last edited by Septentrion Pleiades 11 years ago, edited 3 times in total.
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limepie20
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by limepie20 »

Read the block description of the watermelon thing. There's a certain tile (I forget what it is) you need to put under the watermelon for it to work correclty. You probably overrided it with a regular ledge tile.

And hey, good job with those two levels.
Septentrion Pleiades wrote:Limepie, What is up with your level?
What?

e:
oh. It looks like it takes up a lot of space because I needed to assemble the background with layer 2, and I didn't do it too efficiently. I'd suggest highlighting a screen and then extending it with the arrow. Form what I understand, it should work.
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Jesuiscontent
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by Jesuiscontent »

Here is my report

150 : 19 ko -> 9,4 ko
107 : 18 ko -> 9,8 ko

Pretty sure it's not possible to shrink these 2 further due to their complex architecture.

I didn't do 19 because its graphics are garbled in the latest baserom, no idea why ; I didn't want to risk messing it up.

e : would be useful if you posted them, stupid me
Attachments
150 and 107 optimised.rar
(9.74 KiB) Downloaded 102 times
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Septentrion Pleiades
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Re: Base ROM Inclusions

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

I've greatly reduced 31. I removed many tiles that are never seen due to the borders of the level

It also seems that the lower down the list we get, the more likely that the levels are big due to actually complexity(like level D).
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