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Re: A2MT Plot thread

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Joelcll
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by Joelcll »

It's strange how much problem there is around iris...

You fight her like if it was a normal "bad-guy" fight, when demo finnally gets to the invaders spaceship she fights her again as a midboss or something, "plot-twist" she learns about the artist, and the game continues normally till the final battle...

what am i not understanding here?
Servant
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by Servant »

I am going to probably write dialogue for the siblings that would gradually reveal the plot (instead of having a plotdump that people may tune out), but I am here to ask whether this will be the ending screen in A2MT.
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Money
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by Money »

...they have hands
I think that's a bit of a problem
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AUS
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by AUS »

Yeah, that's like... ... ... ...The only other characters I can think of that don't have hands like this are from homestarrunner.

It's like if Homestar Runner had hands. So wrong.
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by Servant »

The Complete Backstory
*cutscenes glaore*
Iris: Much of our universe, as we currently conceive of it, was created by The Artist in a fit of madness and insanity. During his art of creation, he have created two perfect beings...Demo and Iris. But he could not tolerate the existence of two perfect beings, for they would distract from the rest of his creations. Only one perfect being would do. But at the same time, he could not just choose to "kill" the other perfect being. So he instead compromised. For one half of eternity, one perfect being, Demo, would exist. But when your half ends, The Artist will arrive with his other creations. They will then succeed in capturing and destroying you, allowing me, Iris to exist.
*end cutscenes glaore*

Iris: And that's why I'm here. If I am to stay alive, I had to travel back in time into your half of entirety, and assist in your capture. If I do not create a stable time loop, I will simply cease to exist.

This is the breakdown of the entire plot by Iris:
---World created by Artist (covered by Misihi, Garish?)
---Two Perfect Beings (covered by Iris, Science?)
---The Need To Have Only One Perfect Being (Nevada)
---Brainwashing all of his Creation (Pandamona)
---The Division of Time Into Two (Not Covered Yet)
---Iris Sent Back Into Time (Not Covered Yet)
---Iris Joining Of Her Own Free Will To Prevent Her From Dying (Not Covered Yet)
The Plot Reveals of 6 out of 8 Siblings (bold indicates plot-relevant additions)
Pandamona
Pandamona Fight Text, by Moneyman
Defeated: Hehe... his pattern has been broken... and I couldn't be happier! Heheha! Hoo..to force everyone into a single pattern, to create creative order out of free will...hahaha, will he get a shock when he finds out!
Iris
Iris Fight Text, by Servant
Iris: Well I know you at least. He said that you are a perfect being, just like me. So I had to see you, so I can see me. *pause* Your other siblings may attack you like mindless beasts, but I'll restrain myself today. Just remember, the quicker you surrender, the better it will be...for all of us.

(Alternatively, you could leave it unchanged, because the fact that Iris is mentioning siblings might be enough of a hint.)
Garish
Garish Fight Text, By Joelcll
Garish (after defeat): I do not understand. I cannot understand. He made us slime so he can slime, he made us goo-d so he can be goo-d, why do you refuse, why do you refuse?
I can't do slim puns, so go ahead and translate that into goo-ness.
Nevada
Nevada's Fight Text, by Joelcll
Nevada (after defeat): That crazy guy is too vain, too foolish. He wants people to look at his garden, but his whole garden, not just his prettiest plants. If there were two pretty roses, he'd panic and get rid of one, so that everyone will get to see all the other plants. But that'd ruin beauty, that'd ruin the plant, he has to be stopped.
Science
Science's Fight Text, by Joelcll
Science (after defeat):
ERROR: EQUATION_INCOMPLETE: (1 Not Found, HAPPINESS_FAILED)
SAVE_STATE_00...
EQUATION_UNBALANCED: (2 where they should be 1), ACTIVATE PARADOX FAILSAFE.
Mishi
Mishi's Fight Text, by MoneyMan
Defeated: *sobsob* No... I can't lose... *sob* H- He'll be so disappointed in me... *sob* He made me, he made you, he made everything and everyone, how could I fail him now?
There are two more sibilings that need to be written up, Calleoca and Pily. I'll likely have to write up dialogue with them, including the last three plot points in Iris' Wall of Text. I'm wondering that with all these breadcrumbs, it'd be fine then to let Iris give her wall of text, since the player can already put the pieces together thanks to the bolded text, or at least see the pieces are there.
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by Servant »

Setting aside the writeups for Calleoca and Pily, I found a solution for an alternate, happy(?) ending to the game that depends on you unlocking the path using those Parrot Coins. (EDIT: Emphasis on "a", there could be probably better ways of handling this.)
*Demo encounters a machine that is labelled "Cloning Machine".*
Demo: ...That was what this passageway was hiding?
*Demo examines it*
Demo: Seems to be junk. Eh, I might as well carry it around with me as a souvenir. Pretty disappointing reward though. 2/5.

*After Demo defeats Iris the second time and goes to The Artist's Homeplanet*
*Iris there with Demo departing down to the planet*
Iris: ...Demo, you forgot something. *pause* Wait. I recognize this. *reads sign* Made in Hell, huh? That's a mark of high quality.
*cuts to Iris turning the Clone Machine on*
Iris: ...I may be wiped out of existence, but at least my clone will carry on without me. Do everything I was fated to do, in the other half of history, as if the original never existed in the first place. *pause* Hm...perhaps The Artist was wrong all along; he did not make me, I made me.
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Paralars
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by Paralars »

Wow, woh, wow, wow, wow, wow!
Did I miss anything? Timeloop? Prophecies?
There you just go and catch me with your super long and complex backstory stuff, wow.

Can you please explain what the meaning of this is?
If it is your proposal for the story told in a2mt... it...is...too...complicated...for a hack...wow...

edit:
okay, I got my head around that a bit.
It's pretty nice, let's discuss that some time.
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Cmbheadquarters
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by Cmbheadquarters »

OBJECTION!, pal

I don't like the fact you fight the siblings randomly. They should be related to the castle/end level.
I honestly think Garish should be used in my level, because he likes dirt and slime...
and the plot is.... Un-raocow? I dunno It doesn't have the random attidude of the first...
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by Servant »

Paralars wrote: It's pretty nice, let's discuss that some time.
Yeah, let's do that.
Cmbheadquarters wrote:OBJECTION!, pal

I don't like the fact you fight the siblings randomly. They should be related to the castle/end level.
Okay, how are siblings are supposed to work? Do the player choose the order he fight the siblings, or is the game linear? The write-ups for each of the siblings was based on the belief that the player choose the order; that belief could be mistaken.
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kilon
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by kilon »

The game is non-lineair as in the player can decide which world to tackle first so there is no way to know which sibling the player will encounter first.

Only exception was Iris, I thought. But then again, that was the idea over a year ago. I don't know if anything chanced in that regard.
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Joelcll
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by Joelcll »

the simplistic story was a lot cuter...
Seriously, bring the scrabble thing back, it was amazing.
Artist makes syblings,
master gets demo somehow,
artist wants a "family reunion" and sends the brainwashed syblings to kidnap demo,
demo fights everyone,
demo activates switches to build a "something" to reach the artist's spaceship,
demo fights artist,
there's parrot coins,
cat planet everyone
Done.

I thougt that after activating all the switch palaces, demo could gain acces to a huge cannon that shoots her to the artist's spaceship
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by Servant »

I think there's quite a big difference between a simplistic plot and, well, an excuse plot. I tried my best to make it as simple and easily understandable as possible, but that is different from just having an excuse to go from Point A to Point B to Point C.

The story is not all that important in a romhack, I know, but at the same time, it shouldn't just be all that superfluous or useless, as I am feeling the earlier plot was. It still is superfluous, but at least it's a useful window dressing that could improve the gameplay experience more than just being "there" as an token/feeble attempt to tie disparate levels together into a coherent narrative. (Though, I admit readily I may be speaking due to just attachment and "investment bias" in the work put into it already.)
The whole Iris subplot exists only due to one poster being confused over Iris' actual role in said game and me running with said confusion to try and add depth and resolve the confusion.
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by Servant »

Alternate Beginning Cutscene of A2MT:
Text: Somewhere far, far away from the Mushroom Kingdom...

{Opening ASMT cutscene, with Demo sitting at the command center, and a speaker right next to her}

???: You! Minion!
Demo: Me, master?
???: Yes, you. Name?
Demo: Demo, master.
???: Demo, I'm hungry. Fetch me some victuals.
Demo: But that fleet may attack at any moment! I am needed here at the command center! And besides we are fresh out. The next shipment won't arrive for another two hours.
???: Hours?! Minutes are days in a leapfrog's year. Do you not hear me?
Demo: G-got it master.
???: Report to teleporter room 42B for immediate translation. I have prepared it with the coordinates of the nearest culinary emporium.

Text: 51 Days Later...

{Back to same room, only with the command center empty, as Demo is still stuck at "the nearest culinary emporium"}
???: That control center is useless. Pointless. Meaningless. That fleet will never hurt a fly, nor could it ever damage or hurt this Space Station one iota. If I had thrown away this worthless trash and replaced it with some delicious ---
{explosions}

Text: 1 Day Later...
{Back to same room, only with the entire area trashed and destroyed, almost as if it was attacked a day before by a Fleet...}
*silence*
???: WE...ARE...ALIVE...
???: Everything else though is dangerously overrippened...only an experienced chef can return it to its pristine and tasty youth.
*the sibilings appear*
Iris: We are only here for one person, and one person only. Hand her over, or face the consequences.
???: ...
Iris: Your ship simply cannot withstand another bombardment. Both she and you will then completely eliminated. Hand her over and we can end this war.
???: You ugly piece of meat...
Mishia: What if we fail, Iris? What if The Artist...
Iris: Patience. We can handle this.
*Demo teleports in*
Demo: Master? I know I'm late, and the vegetables are a tad overripe, but--Master?
???: We have been awaiting the voluminous vegetal victuals, minion. We are so pleased you have finally returned.
Demo: MASTER!
???: But now we must...return...you to your rightful owners.
???: I'm sorry.
Iris: I am glad that reason prevailed in this case.
*turns to Demo*
Iris: Come now. You heard Master. And don't think you can run...we will use force if necessary.
*cut to a prison, where Iris stuff her in*
Iris: Soon, you will be erased from history. When The Artist arrives to his space colony, he will wipe you out of the timestream, and once that happens, he will give me permission to exist.
Iris: In the past, it was willed that you would exist for the half of history. But it's over now. Now it's my turn to exist.
Iris: So long Demo. Me and the other siblings are going to hold a celebration; too bad you can't attend.
*Iris leaves...forgetting to lock the prison door*
*Demo walks out of the prison*
In the Space Zoo, Demo should be able to see a machine that is designed to put people into a non-existence stance.
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Paralars
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by Paralars »

Nice job already!
It's exciting, mysterious and still simple.
And it doesn't reveal too much of what we've thought of so far.
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by Cmbheadquarters »

Yeah, but once again if all the boss fights are of the same difficulty (they;d have to be, right? after all, they are random.) then at world 1 it would be to hard world 8 to easy and world 4-5 just right.... :shock: I'm missing something, aren't I?
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by kilon »

Cmbheadquarters wrote:Yeah, but once again if all the boss fights are of the same difficulty (they;d have to be, right? after all, they are random.) then at world 1 it would be to hard world 8 to easy and world 4-5 just right.... :shock: I'm missing something, aren't I?
Custom bosses can be very easy for some people and very hard for other people (cough raocow cough)
But that's not really important anyway. As long as the levels itself are relatively fitting to the difficulty, you can excuse the bosses difficulty and if necessary just put a checkpoint before the boss itself.

Then again, since you can enter world 1 through 4 in random order, we thought of some other way to handle the difficulty curve anyway. But I forgot what that was.
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Money
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by Money »

I'm pretty sure each "path" will have it's own difficulty curve.
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Paralars
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by Paralars »

there are 4 paths with 2 worlds each, so we just need to make sure that the second boss on a path is harder than the first one.
Each path has its own diffictuly curve.
This doesn't have anything to do with the plot.
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Paralars
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by Paralars »

Alright, this sums up the new plot concept Servant and I have been working out.
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/3325/plotp.png
(The colored text are the contents, the black text is the rough structure)
The way I see it, it is even simpler than the other one,
gives the whole game more forward momentum and is a bit more elaborate.
Servant has already written some good and decently brief cutscene dialogues, I think this could work really well.
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by Joelcll »

I keep on insisting that it feels complicated ¬¬
but if you say it's cool, it's cool.

But someone has to make a special level where the sibling of each world chases demo and if she is caugt, they put her in that thing for a "bad ending".
So, now the spaceship is the Artist's spaceship? And what happens with the Parrot?
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Paralars
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by Paralars »

yeah the big spaceship where the worlds are in is the Artist's spaceship.
And the parrot is just a sidequest.
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by Aposke »

I actually like those plot ideas.
They connect to the end of the first game, are interesting for people who DO want to read them (and I'm a complete sucker for game plots) and everything generally seems easily followable.

The only thing I find a little unresting is that Iris just leaves the door open for Demo to escape, that part seems kinda cheap, but heck, if there's so many people complaining about how the story is too complicated already...

Edit: Also, I just went through the character dialogue... Wow, that sounds pretty damn epic! Having serious dialogue in a mostly random game like this seems like a refreshing idea.
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by Diortem »

I'm not too much into the story myself, but I agree with Aposke. What I read so far looks pretty good. I think this will work out very well. :)
What about the credits scene? Are we going to use SMW's ending with the eggs, or do you have anything in particular about scripting it? I might be able to help modifying the ASM of the scenes a bit.
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by raocow »

We won't be using the original ending because we want something that returns you to the map screen after it's done.
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Re: A2MT Plot thread - UPDATE 02/06/2010

Post by limepie20 »

I think it would be fitting to do the same type ending as asmt. It's just credits, it doesn't have to be really special. I liked it in asmt.
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