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Overworld

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Paralars
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Overworld

Post by Paralars »

Giving y'all a quick heads up for assembling the overworld.

That whole task pretty much consists of the following:

- Inserting the background graphics for the submaps. Those are the drawings raocow and I made.
I'm working on simplifying them and converting them to bin files, it's a bit of a hassle because the amount of detail in the drawings really doesn't fit the smw engine.

- Assembling the levels and paths onto the background images in Lunar Magic. The only problem here is that you can't make curvy turns and paths like this
Image
with SMW's set of path tiles.
Someone will have to come up with a solution, if need be, we'll just rearrange the level positions a bit, even if they don't match their respective artwork element that well anymore.

Will have to check if all levels have an OW position assigned to them

- Building the main world map. This will not be a drawing, but a map made from tiles, just as you know it. Hopefully we'll have enough room for everything.

- Drawing a nice talkhaus-tileset for the point above, in a hack with this much custom stuff, it should at least be something visibly self-made.

Things I could imagine to be very helpful, that I have no idea how to do:
- Blinking arrows on the overworld that indicate in which direction you can go (Because the overworld paths should be invisible on the hand drawn maps)
- A way to make sharp 90-degree turns on the overworld, so one can connect two levels diagonally adjacent to each other, like

Code: Select all

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If anyone knows how to make these, that would help.
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Re: Overworld

Post by limepie20 »

I can help with some of that tedious work of creating the drawings into bins. If it is just changing the colors around, I should be able to do it (with some help from master Paralars).

I also definitely wanna help with assembling some of the submaps to help expedite the process. The graphics for some are done already, right? We can just have our own sub-baserom for the overworld and delete the exgfx spaces we need to start assembling it.

And Paralars, are there any other graphics guys you want helping out right now? I can see if I can try to get any to help.
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Re: Overworld

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to make clear what I'm actually working on:

I took the drawings like this
Image
and manually compressed them, i.e. took out all dupilcate tiles and small details, levelled some colors to get smaller palettes and moved all the tiles together so they can be put into YYCHR:
Image
It's split into parts that use different palettes, because the whole drawing had more colors than would fit into a single palette.
Now these chucks of tiles have to be converted to bin format, so what I'm doing is I set a working palette in YYCHR that is somewhat of a representation of one of the images' palettes.
Image
and then, when you copy-paste some tiles into YYCHR, you get this mess:
Image
So you have to
1. get the colors in the right order and the right positions, which isn't that bad because YYCHR has a tool for switching colors directly.
2. Do something really annoying, that is, redraw some parts, because sometimes YYCHR will give the same color to areas that originally had different colors, so you manually have to distinguish them again, pixel by pixel.


I'm finding it hard to convey what I'm doing here, because this is just a process that I've picked up myself, because I never saw a simpler way to do it.

Anyways, I'm almost done with finishing the .bins for the space environment, so once those are done, we can insert them into a ROM (those will be 4 exgfx files probably) and build the map from the tiles. What you'll see in the tile selector in LM will be something like the garbled mess as seen above, so it will be some puzzling, but I tried to keep tiles that belong together somewhat in line, so it won't be a huge hassle.
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Re: Overworld

Post by limepie20 »

Okay now I see why this process is so annoying. Yeah I'll definitely try to help with some of the submaps when they are ready if I can. If anyone else is willing to assemble the stuff in the submaps, please speak up because you guys will be really helpful!
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Re: Overworld

Post by Paralars »

I think I'm getting in control of this, I managed to finish those in the time of only half a chocolate milk.
Space.zip
4 bin files for abstract/space submap background image
(4.44 KiB) Downloaded 119 times
You can rename these to something insertable, insert them and use them for one of the submaps.

The palettes should be like this:
palettes.png
palettes.png (3.09 KiB) Viewed 9079 times
either copy the colors off this image or roughly recreate them in LM.

space1-3 use one palette respectively. space4 contains some spare tiles that didn't fit elsewhere. They use the same palette as space1.


When putting the tiles together, you won't have to flip any of them, just pick the right one, set it to the correct palette and place it on the map.
Here is a template
Image
and if it helps, here is a template with a 8x8 grid for orientation
Image

Consider some details shown in the template have been cleared, like the sparks on the moon and some asteroids, so you might not find all tiles needed. And of course, there exists only one completely yellow 8x8 tile that is to be used to fill out the moon area, and so on.

Have a try building the map if you want, if anything is unclear (which I expect considering the horrible mess I am creating), just ask.
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Re: Overworld

Post by Paralars »

so, now I finished the .bins for the ice world, also, good news!
Apparently, there is a magic box in YYCHR
right here
right here
Unbenannt.PNG (44.43 KiB) Viewed 8885 times
that makes copypasting somewhat work. Had I known this earlier... well.
That might speed things up a lot.

I always enjoy working on this, I'm just afraid it's taking a bit long when I'm not consecutively working, well it's not like we're hurrying anymore.
I'd give away some tasks to the awesome people volunteering to help, I just don't know how to split the work up at the moment, but I'll try and get back to that.
Bear with me here.

By the way, here are the tundra world tile files if anyone wants to... archive them or anything.
Basically it's possible to build the world with these (it's just raocow's drawings made into tiles), but I don't expect anyone to want to do that. Otherwise I'll also post a template for the palettes and the correct tile arrangement (there's actually a system in how I ordered the tiles)
Attachments
tundra.zip
(5.43 KiB) Downloaded 103 times
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Re: Overworld

Post by limepie20 »

Paralars wrote:I always enjoy working on this, I'm just afraid it's taking a bit long when I'm not consecutively working, well it's not like we're hurrying anymore.
I'd give away some tasks to the awesome people volunteering to help, I just don't know how to split the work up at the moment, but I'll try and get back to that.
Bear with me here.
Certainly. You're doing great; we wouldn't have any overworld right now if it wasn't for you.
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Re: Overworld

Post by Paralars »

here's the forest/river/castle world
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Re: Overworld

Post by Paralars »

So, the submaps are almost pretty much done (as in, converted to bin format). I guess the next thing to do would be the main overworld.

If the level 'pool' hasn't changed since the last time I posted an overworld map, that still holds, otherwise, we'll have to revise that a bit. I don't know, did something change?

Either way, a consistent, neat looking tileset will be needed. That would be the same size as the original game's overworld tileset with basically the same elements in them (those are the ones you can find in the overworld 8x8 tile editor).
People volunteered to help out with that.
If you want to, just go ahead. I'd suggest taking the original SMW's tiles as a template and redrawing them in a somewhat consistent style. (Vip5 did this very well)
Pngs or bmps would suffice, I could do the YYCHR stuff, and it's not much to draw.
(A good rip would be a fine option as well).
I'll just leave this here and see if anybody still wants to do this, and come back to it a bit later
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Re: Overworld

Post by raocow »

Well that was fast! I'm pretty sure the levels have pretty much not changed, so that shouldn't be an issue.

What worlds did you use for the submaps? The original ones?
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Re: Overworld

Post by Paralars »

Cave/jungle - the first one i posted a while ago
Abstract/space - the one with big moon and floating things
Tundra - aurora and castle
Civilisation - the one with forest, river and castles
Mountains - one I drew, i think i posted it at some point
End/postgame - big eye with Demo
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Re: Overworld

Post by raocow »

the eyeball one persisted, the world is safe~~
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Re: Overworld

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

I wonder how level information pertaining to the OW is being kept. Three are still a few pending levels, and some levels might be special with how they are on the OW.
Example:I need a P has an no progress "secret" exit
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Re: Overworld

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Here is pretty much the list of levels that I found in the wiki&finalization thread

Levels marked red are currently rated unacceptable in the finalization thread
Final World:
Further over There
Nezumi's Farmville
So Close, yet so...
Final level

Hub World:
Intertwined Plains
A Stroll Under the Stars
A Menagerie in Glass
Parrot's Pad Planning Phase
I Need a P
Painting the Treehouse
Dodge the beefsteak

Sky world (Tier 2):
Castle in the sky !
Violet Velocity
Sky Castle West
Aerial Athletics
Air Arena
Cumulonimbastille !
Mad Science Laboratory !
Skythorne Valley
Woodchuck Woods !
THUMP

Ice world (Tier 2):
Skyway to wonderland
the level of ghosts and slippery floors
Time Will Hide Your Way
P.Key's Mansion
Running Like Clockwork
Mail Delivery!! !
La joie de glisser
Demo's Wondrous Pitfall!
Adamantium Castle !

Mountain world (Tier 1):
The great pit
Super Vehicle 00C Onwards to Moscow !
Chilly Ice Cave
Down to Green
No Secret Exit Here
Thwomp Ahoy! !
Smouldering Stones
Farenheit Something
Irritating...

Space world (Tier 2):
block fort
land of illusion
Betrayal Rock
A.D.D.
Sagan Leagues Above the Surface !
Phase Out
Light and Darkness
LBS
Dark Side of the Moon

beach world (Tier 1):
punctuated time !
flooded village
P-Switch Beach !
The happy lake
A Gelatin Factory
Starlight Resort
Deja Vu
A Beach
Goofy Grotto

vanilla world (Tier 1):
Ye Olde Spookhouse
Verdant Varmit
Forest of Realism !
wrathful Romp
Tangled Grounds
Coin Town USA
A Layer 2 Romp
Multi-Tier Hillside
Thwomp Garden

Underground world (Tier 1):
Demo Kong Country !
Calm Forest
Where Am I?
Moonlit Mountain
Demo's Hydrophobia !
Undermoore Passage
Dancing with Shells
Something to do with layer 2

Fortress world (Tier 2):
Hey there sewage castle
Sodium Fortrate
The Meaning of Sharp
Unpleasant Intruder
Forest Fever !
capefeather ? I placed this level here because I've played it a few times during development and thought it would fit here. Apparently, it's still pending, though
Mansion of Onoffness
Crazed Crayon Combat
The Deadly Ninja Assassin Squad
Dairy Disaster

???:
Magical Lava Zone ~ This is a below-average difficulty 2 exit underground level, I don't exactly know where to put it yet
Extraordinary Flip Notes! ~ The longest time I have been assuming this level wasn't finished. I guess it will either replace a non-functional level or be placed into the emptiest world of matching difficulty
shdwdrgnix ~ I couldn't find any information on this level except that it exists as pending
Heatstroke ~ I didn't even realize this level existed. Will have to think about that, too
This would be a good opportunity for any thoughts or objections, because up to now, I have been judging the sufficiency of this by myself and it's possible I'm doing something wrong here.
(I played almost every level, but only superficially, so the difficulties are estimated)
Septentrion Pleiades wrote:I wonder how level information pertaining to the OW is being kept. Three are still a few pending levels, and some levels might be special with how they are on the OW.
I've been trying to match overworld locations and level content at some certain parts.
The normal exits of So close, yet so... and No secret exit here should be no-progress.
I need a P does lead to two paths, but it's used as a hub between world 3 and 4, so you still have to get the secret exit to get to where you need to go.
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Re: Overworld

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

You shouldn't have to worry about the red levels. Some of those things are like using old yoshi coins and other mess ups in the level themselves.

shdwdrgnix - Lava level, with different options for difficulty

I Need a P = the "Secret" path is actually the easier and noticeable path, and I just got them switched. The "normal" path should be clear progress, and more rewarding.

E: Also, Do you know where the switches will be?

E2: Flip notes
It's that nitroid Level.
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Re: Overworld

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yeah, i know which level is what.
If all the red levels are gonna be fixed, that's fine.

What do you mean, where the switches will be?

There will be a switch at the end of every tier 2 world, right after the last level.
Sky world - Mad Science Laboratory
Space world - Betrayal Rock
Ice world - Adamantium Castle
Fortress world - Crazed Crayon Combat

By the way, there is something I missed.
The boss hallways for the siblings are sublevels, right?
So will they be added to the last level in their respective world, or do they get their own level?
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Re: Overworld

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

I think that the siblings will be tacted on to the end of levels.
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Re: Overworld

Post by limepie20 »

Septentrion Pleiades wrote:I think that the siblings will be tacted on to the end of levels.
Yes, they just go on the end of castles.
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Re: Overworld

Post by Paralars »

Behold, another Excel page:
Unbenannt.PNG
Unbenannt.PNG (49.64 KiB) Viewed 8572 times
Again, I shifted around a lot, but I feel a lot more confident about it now.

So, there are a few things we need to clear up finally.

1. I marked the personally estimated diffilty roughly by color (blue easiest - green, yellow, orange - purple hardest).
I am aware there are a few small spikes and pits - not necessairly a bad thing -, but I wanted the first level of every world to be somewhat calm as an intro and the boss levels to be a challenge even in early worlds, which brings us to

2. Boss levels (bold): Some of the Choices may not be optimal and could be swapped with another level in that world, you really need to help me decide on that, if it's ok.
Considering there are a few level bosses with standard/blank graphics still (S.V.00C o.t.M. for example, there are also a couple levels with thwomp bosses) and not all Siblings were done yet, it would probably a good idea to make those levels the Boss levels and redraw the Bosses as the missing siblings.

3. Now we have a beautiful, working treasure system. But I still have no idea what happened to dragon coins.
The plan was that these would unlock alternate level paths on the overworld, so that you could avoid/skip other levels. As you can see, there is a relatively hard level in each Tier 2 World that you can reach by a black arrow (unlocked by a normal exit), that would allow you to go almost directly to the Boss level by beating it:
Running like Clockwork
Wrathful Romp
The Meaning of Sharp
Land of Illusion
These could be used as a "hardcore" alternative path as is, OR we could have them unlocked by dragon coins, if that would work. I just don't know if dragon coin purchases are still a thing...
Anyway, I tried providing for either case

4. So, Further over there is postgame. We agreed on that because of, well, mostly lazyness and WTH-injury, I guess. But do we need any more post-game levels? There would be plenty space in the eyeball-submap for such things. The other submaps are REALLY full, so a few of those harder levels could go there, as well. It's not necessary, just an option.

5. The only levels left out for now are Heatstroke (finished) and Temple of Yatagarasu (pending)
Other problematic levels that are on the map are capefeather's (pending) and possibly alex's (I heard it's finished, but it still lists as pending).
Because I don't know how that will end up, I left those two spaces out yet.
If capefeather's doesn't get done, it will be replaced by Heatstroke, otherwise it goes around Smouldering Stones.
Alex's level should probably work out.
Temple of Yatagarasu would be a pretty neat postgame or final world level, because of how it's made up. No idea how this one's status is right now.
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Re: Overworld

Post by raocow »

I'm pretty sure we don't have working parrot coin gates working so I don't think it's realistic to expect them in the game :/

Also I've been pushing to put levels with already a boss as just using them for world ends so I'm all for THAT, it would make some things a LOT simpler and closer to ending.
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Re: Overworld

Post by limepie20 »

raocow wrote:I'm pretty sure we don't have working parrot coin gates working so I don't think it's realistic to expect them in the game :/

Also I've been pushing to put levels with already a boss as just using them for world ends so I'm all for THAT, it would make some things a LOT simpler and closer to ending.
I agree with both of these.
From the top of my head, Terry's train level, and that one level with the pencils and stuff should be castle levels.
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Re: Overworld

Post by Paralars »

Did some work on the tileset for the main overworld, just showing that there's stuff I'm working on.
I will add some decoration tiles for the landmass and water, clouds, trees, unique level and path tiles, some beach tiles, and that should be it.
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Re: Overworld

Post by limepie20 »

It's lookin' good!
I like the blue and yellow color grass. You should give the hills facial features, too.
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Re: Overworld

Post by Paralars »

Sounds good. Any other ideas on what to incorporate would be nice!
I literally have no plan on how the "world 1" part of the OW will look like, so yeah
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Re: Overworld

Post by limepie20 »

You could have people drowning in the water, and exanimate it.
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