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A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

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Septentrion Pleiades
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

Alex wrote:What about focus? Like I said, it wouldn't be too much trouble to implement if people want it; I won't do it if people don't like it, though.
This is still a Mario Thing so I don't think any players will be disappointed if you left out such a feature.
Alex wrote:Also, from the way you described each spell card, it sounds like you think it's a survival match. As it currently stands, it is a survival match. I was planning on implementing an actual health bar and fighting aspect to it, to make it more Touhou-esque. If peeps want it to be survival, I have no qualms with that at all. It makes my job substantially easier, actually (well, not substantially, but it'd save me quite a bit of time).
The seconds can also be expected time to beat the boss in a health-bar setting. I think players will enjoy attacking the enemy.

I wasn't planning on describing spellcards in that previous post so here is a go at it. It will be in spoilers tags for organization and actual potential spoiler. They will have names for at least development reasons.

Spellcard 0
Spellcard: Prelude

Survival type.

Demo starts downstage.

White bullets travel in the same orbit upstage. Colored (they are the same color as boss)bullets start falling down from ceiling. At the end of the spell, the falling bullets halt and the orbiting bullets speed up. the colored bullets are pulled to the center of the orbiting bullets, which then "transform" into the boss
Non-spell .5(still categorized as spellcard)
Unless I misunderstood, the Artist is the boss. Non-spells will be paintbrush based, and gives the distinct personality

Spellcard: Artist's stroke

One type of bullet is the "Brush", and will always be visable. It can idly go places or leave behind a trail of bullets.
This will be a curve stroke upstage that leaves behind a trail of bullets. Repeat as need. They will expand and do their bullet thing. Not too hard.
Spellcard 1
Spellcard:Targeted
The boss will summon a cloud of bullets around him, and then fire them at Demo. Then he will fire rapid shoots at demo. These attacks will alternate.

meanwhile bullets are coming from the floor rising straight up.
The Intro is offically over at this piont.

Nonspell 1.5
Spellcard:artist's inspiration
Brush is randomly traveling upstage constantly creating aimed bullets. They bounce off the floor.
Spellcard 2
Spellcard: cosmic punishment
Not thought out. It involves a column of bullets from above the boss. Makes attacking hard, if implemented.
Nonspell 2.5
Spellcard: Artist's circles
Two seemingly independent circles are on side of the screen. They moving up and down according to were the programmer wants the brush to go. The brush aims for the circle on the opposite side of the screen. The brush zooms across leaving bullets.

This will be the first spell encouraging the player to make use of the top of the screen.
3
Spellcards:Circles of Doom
Somethings with circles.
3.5
The brush Chases Demo.
4
Spellcard: Aurora Strike
This is the spellcard I designed earlier
Final
Incorporates the Brush, maybe two of them. The boss is fully centerstage
Maybe this might be a good overall design?
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

Alex wrote:Please remember that this is a giant sprite as-is. Seriously, with the default two spellcards it ended up being 1,500+ lines. As much as I like this idea, we can't be too greedy about it. Space is tight, after all. Hopefully the ROM will have plenty of space after limepie and SyStemkraSh and Diortem finish porting everything over; I don't want this boss prioritised above any level or gimmick, since it's just fancy for the sake of being fancy (because that's how we roll).
I don't have much of an idea of how much space any thing would take, but limepie said in the update thread that there should be more space soon. I assume you mean the two Kaguyu spellcards take 750 lines each, which I don't even know how much data is that. I also don't know the limitations.

One Presumption I had is that you have access to the psuedorandom function which will allow things like bullets falling like snow from the top(the very first spellcard I described(now named Aurora strike) and the intro card.

I also mentioned circles in at least 3 spellcards above which would require using Sine and Cosine, which I don't even know how hard that would be.

You ask me to draw some cards so here are some.

Intro Spellcard
Intro Spellcard.png
The original description mentions bullets traveling in a circle, but it can be hexagonal or octagonal. The second image is right before the boss. If you can halt and pull in the falling bullets it would be nice, but an alternative is simply stopping bullet in there as they fall.
Cosmic punishment
cosmic spellcard.png
The white lines are straight lines of bullets coming from both the top and bottom with few breaks allowing Demo into other zones. That is were much of the challenge is.
The boss flies above demo keeping his y axis the same and summon a lot of bullet to come down in a psuedorandom column.
also depicted on the right is a wall of death, which will travel vertically up or down the space between the white lines
I've given Aurora Strike a lot of detail. Here is the info again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YtSzXpjh60

This spellcard is partially inspired by this video.

The orb attack like the one that starts at 18 seconds is simple enough and will persist throughout the spellcard. The orbs(yellow in picture) are about 66% up the battlefield on either side of center stage. the orb will spawn the ANGLE bullets(white in picture) that are fire each in increasing angle amount but the bullets themselves go in a straight line. The two orbs will be mirror versions of each other.

The second element of the spell card is the colorful bullets(green in picture) that fall from above the screen in great number, and settle upstage and slightly to the side(presented by the green border. They then start firing one at a time(or more) at the player. The field of bullets upstage will continually be refilled until the near the end of the spell. The final part of the spell eject all the colorful bullet quickly or at once, most of them not aimed but fires off at randomish angles. Also, these bullets bouncing of the wall is an interesting concept, but that is a bit much.
Spellcard.png
I would like to know what gimmicks are preferable for you. I remember parabolic motion in the kuguya video, but I can conceive of circles, larger bullets, even larger bullets, affecting every bullet of a type, heat seeking, using current bullet location for spawning(the Brush), bouncing.

When something like kaguya progressing though angle of attacks, is some sort of looping(like For...Next) involved? Were those spellcards romspace efficient?
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

Alex wrote:I may have missed what Kaguya is. Could you reiterate?
She is the chick who is the Sprite in the original Youtube demonstration.

Since you said you are okay with any gimmick, I assume you read all my suggested gimmicks. I'm mostly interested by the large bullet. I think since they are tiles that large bullets could be use to save processing power. Would this work for bullets bigger than one block?
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by limepie20 »

Well just some pretty simple attacks would be swooping down at demo and shooting a fireball or some sort of projectile at her. I think those were two of the attacks we were gonna have.
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by Argumentable »

he's wario from super mario land 2
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by swirlybomb »

A name such as 'Science' makes me think he should shoot beams for some reason...?
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by Slit08 »

Just so that I understand it:
The final boss of A2MT is going to be The Artist who indeed is raocow. This identity will be revealed in his final phase, where he transforms into raocow and fights you with danmaku like attacks?
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by Slit08 »

Oh I see. So The Artist and raocow are two different bosses. :)
Thanks for clearing that.
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by Slit08 »

Oh I thought so, because you guys discussed that in the previous comments. Oh well, guess that I misunderstood something.

I am really looking forward of how The Artist will look like.
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by raocow »

the artist is a cat planet cat
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by Argumentable »

If you make a raocow boss make him walk towards you then he breaks his foot for no reason this is not distasteful at all
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

Alex wrote:I got the Danmaku boss working, more-or-less. The only remaining issue is the fact that the boss makes Mario disappear. I'm fixing this right now.
That's great news. I can't what to see what has been done.

I'm wondering three things right now.

Does the current final boss music fits in with it?(No offense to wyatt, it's excellent for a platforming game)

Is Demo a one hit wonder or is the number of hits flexible?

What is your opinion on lasers?

edit: The music we have would be had to follow up on, and it's more high tension then I remember. I wouldn't vote against using it.
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

Alex wrote: I can change the number of hits Demo can take. Destroying all of the bullets and turning them into cards is out of the question.
We aren't trying to imitate Touhou in every aspect. I don't think bombs will work out well either.
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

Okay, I have a final spell.
Final spell 4 stages

The boss moves to the center of the screen and Demo no longer has ability to damage the boss. This is a clear indication of an final attack
Warm up
Boss shoots bullets in straight into the four corner at an increasing rate. This stage will last for maybe 6 seconds.
Boss final 1A.png
Stage 2
The attack from stage 1 will persist for a few seconds. The boss will eventually start doing an aimed attack.
The four corners(actually the spawn point is a bullet's radius away from the corner) will act as the source of the new bullets. The four corners shoot at alternating increasing or decreasing angles(each corner is essentially 1/4 of what happens at the boss at 45 seconds in the original video http://youtu.be/sOYpERrT41A?t=45s). It will begin vertically and progress to horizontally, then back.
Boss final 2.png
Stage 3
The aimed attack stops. New color of bullets now spawns from the corners. They spawn in the same way as the stage 2 but they will bounce off all 4 sides an persist in the battlefield. The will continue spawning until it reach the limit of either space or playability. The is the final survival challenge and will continue like this for some time.
Death Stage
The Stage 3 bullet stop bouncing and simply exit when they hit the edge. the boss starts exploding bullet in a chaotic manner. These bullet are easy to dodge if the player keeps his distance. After 8 seconds of futile attacks the boss slow creeps to demo, but doesn't make it far before the big exposion cycle. after 5 second of creeping the boss is "crippled" and starts a dramtic last attack.

This stage is after the climax, in the resolution.
Last edited by Septentrion Pleiades 11 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by Wyatt »

A cool spell card would be one of those "narrow safe area" attacks, like so:
demo.gif
With other hazards happening of course. Really I just think it'd be cool to have a shit-ton of bullets on screen. These of course wouldn't be "real" bullets, they'd just be background layer animations with some basic asm killing demo if she went above or below the safe area.
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by limepie20 »

Wow that sounds really awesome.
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by swirlybomb »

Is that... is that actually doable? That would totally boggle my mind if so.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by raocow »

spoiler I just character-designed the very story-relevent true form/idendity of The Artist
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by AUS »

Can't tell if trolling or just awesome.
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by limepie20 »

No, he's not trolling. That's what the artist will actually be like. Who's spriting?
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by raocow »

Which is good, because I'm not asking that either. In fact, assuming it's the shape we agree upon, it's best if the script never even adresses its feline nature.
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by limepie20 »

Alex wrote:So is this the Gaston tribute reincarnate, or is it just for shits?
And giggles.
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by raocow »

well, don't overwork yourself please!
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by raocow »

Like, what aspect is giving you issue, exactly? Not that I'd be of, like, ANY help, but maybe vocalising it somewhat can help you out? I know that sort of thing helps me out!
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Re: A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

Post by swirlybomb »

I don't understand much code-wise, but I certainly get the impression that this is quite a difficult thing to do, and I want to applaud you for putting so much work in to get it done right.
alex2 wrote:In the mean time, the graphics for this thing need to be drawn. I don't know who is willing to do this, so I'll leave that up to you guys to decide.
In theory I wouldn't mind giving it a go, but I'm imagining that only raocow really knows what The Artist looks like? Plus I have some other projects that I'm not spending enough time on, so I should probably clear something-or-other off my plate first...

Fireballs would be my first suggestion for Mario's/Demo's projectiles.
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