A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

[S.N.N.]

It seems like there is too much focus on making super ASM-heavy bosses anyway when you guys clearly don't have the coders readily available for it. Cup has the right idea - if you already have some mini-bosses ready, rework the story and make them the major fights. Yes, it may not be the option everyone wanted, but unless you plan on pulling a VIP5 and sitting on this for two years, it might be wise to take the less-amazing-but-still-good route.

Besides, some of the best bosses are those which aren't that ASM-heavy to begin with. Look at the ASMT breakout fight. Despite a few flaws, it was actually more memorable than pretty much every other fight in that hack (for me at least).

[Diortem]

I agree pretty much to that as well. Although, I thought some of the other sibling(s) were done already in an earlier stage. I can recall some sort of fight in Lemmy's room... Ah found it here.

Just a silly question: Even if the siblings were made, where would they go? I don't think we need even more castle levels to put them in. But I could be wrong about that. ;) If we don't count the Big Boo (and all of his clones) that still leaves us with quite a few original bosses indeed.

I would dislike throwing the entire idea of the siblings away. I suppose we could still add some pictures of them in the final level, or put them in some formaldehyde vessels so Demo could still come across them, when going to the artist (he is still the final boss, right?). It's just my 2 cents. XD The Mishi fight can still be finished, if necessary.

P.S. Sorry for being absent again, I should be able to check in more frequently the upcoming weeks.

[raocow]

My idea of having the sibblings 'present' at the end of already existing levels but not actually participating in the fights still stands!!

They would fight, but they're too lazy/tired/immobile/confused/sad/scared/weak/chaotic-neutral.

[Diortem]

That's also fine. :)

[limepie20]

We can also reskin the current bosses to be siblings if you guys want.

I'm honestly not concerned with the story, though. Sure it's cool, but in the context of platformers, an absence of story that lets you just jump in and play seems pretty consonant to me. I would suggest having a little story text that comes with the game, but nobody's gonna read that, so I don't know.

[raocow]

also, peeps, if you really want a 'raocow' bossfight for the danmaku as a finale, it'd be a lot more 'clever' to use the different avatars I've had here in talkhaus. It'd work well if only because some would look like demo, and otherwise would remain fairly 'eye-centric'.

[limepie20]

Yeah sure we'll have demo vs demo.

I thought Alex asked for your picture just to see it. I think a raocow final boss is a terrible idea because we specifically wanted no raocow references. And something sensible for a final fight will totally sick out like a sore thumb.

[Paralars]

SNN what are you talking about this started 25 months ago.

Also, make the siblings just kinda produce the boss, don't need to change the (irrelevant) story for the tank/snail/etc to be the bosses.

[raocow]

I'm pretty sure every level in the hack that already has a boss has a screen transition that leads to it. It'd be easy to slide it in there, just a little cutscene with the sibbling and the text servant wrote for them.

[Paralars]

Also, for the ones that are missing still,
I'd still go with this i.e. simple to make, easy to learn boss fights plugged onto qualified levels

Story is actually not a big deal, just an arbitrary cutscene here and there (intro, one for every world boss, end)

And by the way, we could still, like, put a world's sibling boss in the middle of that world's path, because every path has to end with an independent switch palace anyway

[AUS]

I think a raocow final boss is a terrible idea because we specifically wanted no raocow references.

Not that I'm really that for it, you could think of it in this way: The lack of raocow references in the rest of the game would just make the ending less of a, well, joke everyone heard 100 times by then. Basically, it would only "work" in a game that didn't have tons of raocow references.

.. .. *shrug*

[Argumentable]

it'd be a lot more 'clever' to use the different avatars I've had here in talkhaus.

I hate this boss already!!!

[Paralars]

If you made a boss from Argumentable's avatars it would just walk away without a fight because of its straightforward disregard of everything.

But actually, I think we should avoid all those references and just go with something that makes sense to everyone.

[Paralars]

In the sense of "let's not make a raocow avatar final boss"
Other references in the hack are okay, most of them are very subtle and insignificant

[Wyatt]

We can also reskin the current bosses to be siblings if you guys want.

This! Terry's boss is literally using a placeholder graphic. Cup's boss is relatively person-sized and doesn't look super memorable. I think cmbheadquarters' level has a boss with a placeholder graphic as well.

If we have to make some siblings hurl you into an unexplained big boo fight or whatever then that's fine, but when we have perfectly good bosses that could easily be siblings, why not try to make them work?

Also at this point I'd advocate using graphic swaps of roy/larry/wendy/ludwig as the inner four siblings. I understand if nobody likes that idea, but it's an option, and to me it seems like a better option than cutting some sibling fights completely.

[Paralars]

The boss in air arena only shows up in a secret room, though, so unless we ripped that boss out of that level and sticked it to the end of another one (which I'm against), we shouldn't make it sibling related.

I actually think Pily could be an enhanced Larry fight (lava), in that it takes more than 2 seconds to beat and Mishi could be an enhanced Lemmy fight (showing up behind you/teleporting) with additional hazards or maybe the dummies hurt you/throw stuff.

For the rest, CrazedCrayonCombat's boss can be Calleoca, SuperVehicle's and cup's bosses can be Pandamona and something else.

Nevada can just be some form of those endless piranha boss fights that exist.

Or just make every sibling a homing thwomp.

[Giant Ninji]

I have no idea of the full discussion about bosses here, but I think maybe I can contribute.

There are TONS of bosses out there that are underused. And if your going with reskins, maybe look at the other bosses out there. I don't know if I can (publicly) link to some of these bosses, but if I can't, I'll nuke them right away

Super Mario World Boss and Ultimate N00b Boss Tutorial
The Giant Morton Boss is REALLY underused by the by.


Video of Above; Giant Disco Shel by Sonikkul. Not Really a boss, but like in one of the MaGL levels, it could be used as one.

VIP5 Ludwig. You'll have to as the uploader for it though

HawkMouth by Sonikku

dahnamics C3 sprites/boss releases. Though, download them from the sprites section since some of them got rejected.

Giant Koopas by Sonikku. Varied and better versions of the one from SMWCP
Video of Above


Video of Above; Night Spirit by Sonniku


Video of Above; Frenzied Toroko by Sonikku


Video of Above; Balrog by Sonikku

Transformed Sue by undefinied3
Video of Above. Dynamic sprite by the way

Dracula Duck by dahnamics
Video of Above

Magica DeSpell by dahnamics
Video of Above

Dry Bones Boss by MetalJo

Koyuki's Iggy Koopa Boss and Giant Goomba Ball Boss

Morton Boss by MetalJo

Acro by dahnamics
Video of Above

LockJaw by dahnamics
Video of Above

With some graphics changes and editing of the disassembly, you can make a racing boss out of the Mega Mole

There are TONS more, but most of them are out of my reach. Though, this is already a VAST array of sprites.

[Yikes]

Don't know if someone came up with the idea before but you could also make a sibling transform into something compeltely different during a cutscene right before a bossfight starts. This could also lead to some funny dialogue before the fight starts.

I may be no member of the collab team but the idea with the siblings is way too awesome to be thrown away! ;)

[Giant Ninji]

Don't know if someone came up with the idea before but you could also make a sibling transform into something compeltely different during a cutscene right before a bossfight starts. This could also lead to some funny dialogue before the fight starts.

I may be no member of the collab team but the idea with the siblings is way too awesome to be thrown away! ;)

A site-wide collaboration is open to everyone. That's the fun part of it. :>

Unless, well, your a suckish poster.

[Giant Ninji]

I have no idea of the full discussion about bosses here, but I think maybe I can contribute.

There are TONS of bosses out there that are underused. And if your going with reskins, maybe look at the other bosses out there. I don't know if I can (publicly) link to some of these bosses, but if I can't, I'll nuke them right away

Super Mario World Boss and Ultimate N00b Boss Tutorial
The Giant Morton Boss is REALLY underused by the by.


Video of Above; Giant Disco Shel by Sonikkul. Not Really a boss, but like in one of the MaGL levels, it could be used as one.

VIP5 Ludwig. You'll have to as the uploader for it though

HawkMouth by Sonikku

dahnamics C3 sprites/boss releases. Though, download them from the sprites section since some of them got rejected.

Giant Koopas by Sonikku. Varied and better versions of the one from SMWCP
Video of Above


Video of Above; Night Spirit by Sonniku


Video of Above; Frenzied Toroko by Sonikku


Video of Above; Balrog by Sonikku

Transformed Sue by undefinied3
Video of Above. Dynamic sprite by the way

Dracula Duck by dahnamics
Video of Above

Magica DeSpell by dahnamics
Video of Above

Dry Bones Boss by MetalJo

Koyuki's Iggy Koopa Boss and Giant Goomba Ball Boss

Morton Boss by MetalJo

Acro by dahnamics
Video of Above

LockJaw by dahnamics
Video of Above

With some graphics changes and editing of the disassembly, you can make a racing boss out of the Mega Mole

There are TONS more, but most of them are out of my reach. Though, this is already a VAST array of sprites.

Found some more:

Bowyer by DiscoMan
Don't know what this guy is though.

A sprite that takes 10 hits, walks back and forth and sometimes, can charge at the player.
He shoots arrows that can hurt and poison the player and this sprite can lock your controller if the arrow hits the sprite "ControllerBlock". More details in the readme. Do give credit when using this sprite.

Bowser Jr. by dahnamics

Giant Beetle Boss by dahnamics
Almost all of the Giant Bosses can't be reskins though

[Yikes]

Or you can't spell.

Bear with me guys...the german education system sucks.

[Giant Ninji]

I was talking about Giant Shy Guy over there, who speaks English natively.

English is my second language. Tagalog is my first. .-.

And I really need to change my avatar.

EDIT: There ya go. I like my Giant enemies separate. =D

[Davvic]

So we have all these boss ideas and nobody to make them?

[Servant]

Please let me know when bosses are finally selected (and what those bosses are), so that I can see whether the boss dialog for the "plot" need to be 'changed' (or if new text need to be added to explain why this 'boss' is associated with this 'sibling').

[Septentrion Pleiades]

Making lots of progress on the danmaku boss. I have a couple questions, though:

1) How long should each spellcard last?
2) How many spellcards should there be?
3) Should we add a focus feature (not hard)?
4) How much health should it have?

I wonder if we will include Non-spells(warm-up attacks). It could affect the answers to #1 & #2. Probably not IMO, unless it is used to establish the bosses personality.

The spell length should increase with the difficulty of the spell that way the player will feel the tension more.

First spell (maybe 15-20 seconds) should be a intro to bullet hell and nothing should be shot fast at the player. For this I imagine bullet accelerating from the top like slow motion rockslide.

Second might be "hey there guy, I want you dead" sort of introduction (25-30 seconds). Aimed quick attacks characterizes the spellcard.

Next 3(more or less) will make up the body of the fight. These are serious business.(45-50 seconds). The Spellcard I discribed in an earlier post would make a good one of these I think.

Final (70-90 seconds) Possibly incorporates bosses personality. Will have to think in all 360 degrees when making this spellcard.

Last Stand. (5-20 seconds) if we want to do that. Kaboom.


I would like to be a tester if possible, And I could think up spellcards also.