A2MT Discussion: OW, Bosses, and Gimmicks

[Moniker]

Long Response

I like cliches. They give you a universal reference point, a static audience, and a bedrock of expectations from which one can deviate to humorous or dramatic effect. The frame I laid out puts together all the elements we seem to be agreeing upon (and which I heartily endorse), in a way that will be engaging, yet requires minimal intrusion into the gameplay. The game *has* to be self-aware, or it will go the way of Team Haunted.

Subverting cliches was the principle I used when (re)writing ASMT's script. By my judgment, it was successful, but I think the jury's still out re: the public. If the kind of writing I did for ASMT isn't desired for A2MT, then most likely I won't do it; it just won't be fun for me.

[Tails_155]

I'm just concerned about an overly-cliché plot... and the center of the plot with that type of situation... it's risky

[Dan]

Can someone sum up the plot for me? This thread is pretty confusing, and I don't have much time to read through it (I'm terminal)

[Moniker]

Check the first post; it lays out the main ideas so far pretty well. Everything since has been further brainstorming. Nothing's been decided upon yet.

[Tails_155]

As far as the situation though with the switches (my thing I'm pushing so hard, as you can see ) Does this sound like a good idea? and Chdata, does it sound doable? My only concern is the amount of the palette it may use up (and the ASM worries, of course.)

[Chdata]

having more than the normal amount of switches would be very hard to do, and it'd be tricky to help people realize they can use them along with telling them how because objects appear as garbage and it'd be a mass of confusion.

But if I can get it from Roy, they re-hit a switch palace idea I think is a good one.

[Tails_155]

I was thinking of going to the all-text messages, the object things don't really help. Just make some sort of "OMHOMH U BROK'D SEEL" kind of message, and remove the little indicator things.

But the difficulty thing is my bigger concern, and it WAS just an idea -shrug- (I was into it, but I certainly know no ASM, so I wouldn't force anyone else to do it.)

[Alberio]

What about an easy mode that is overall toned down quite a bit? For people who don't have controllers on their computer, like me, kind of. Or, just plain noobs.

[Moniker]

Since you elaborated on your critique, I'll respond more thoroughly:

To clarify, I'm pretty anti-main-character-as-perfect-being. It seems so cliché, and it leaves the Mary Sue door wide open.

The irony we're going for is that what the Artist considers his "perfect being" has only one eye and no arms.

*cough*Cliché*cough* Jussayin'. True identity stories? Hate to be blunt, but this is looking pretty cookie cutter...

"True identity" in the sense that a mild mannered servile type who gets all of her sentences finished for her is actually a nimble killing machine, which ought to be obvious but isn't due to videogame context. A true identity that works for Mario, Link, and all sorts of other humble heroes you witness performing hundreds of murders as well. This theme has been explored; I even used it once or twice in ASMT castle destruct sequences, but it's a logical way to connect Demo to the siblings.

A cross of Shadow the Hedgehog and any Greek Tragedy in existence.

I'm unfamiliar w/ Shadow the Hedgehog, but I could live with a little oedipal subtext.

Not that I came up with a perfect plot or anything, but your critique is pointlessly contrarian. I get that you're enthusiastic and want to contribute, but eh. As for pandering to the base, I think that's why everyone's taking to the space opera instead of revisiting the old characters in the Mushroom Kingdom like in your suggestion. I also don't think anyone's out to milk the success of the first - that logic doesn't really make a whole lot of sense in romhacking. I think it's more that people just want to get started working on something again. As for other plotlines, I'm all for new and better ideas... when I hear them.

[Tails_155]

Oh, no. I know I'm being a bit excessive, but I just am a little uncomfortable with following the "Hey let's make a story" plot. It could come out fantastic! I just don't know that that's quite where I'd want to start. It's just my opinion, after all. I am pretty nervous about it becoming subpar, but then again, I made no effort to contribute on the last once, so I have no clue what the ideas started as. Your ideas are good, they just make me feel like quoting TVTropes... and that doesn't have to be a bad thing. -shrug-

I'm just overly concerned, that'll pass as we set more things in stone. :)

Also, mind you, I'm willing to try whatever story people come up with, I'm not just gonna get frustrated and leave or whatever... but I may be kinda picky. Just shrug it off and let others comment... I have a feeling I'll like it, whatever we choose to do.

[Kincyr]

I had the joke-idea of having the spin-jump modified so that you can bounce off munchers but being completely useless against enemies, including the flopping fish
but then I got this idea:
how about having the spin-jump not only as powerup-only ability, but modifying it further so that it makes you jump higher than a normal jump, and in addition to that, allowing you to hit baddies from below, causing them to react as if hit with the cape (leaving cape-immune baddies immune to this method)
once you reach the peak of the jump, the spin-jump flag is cleared or whatever so you fall normally and landing on a baddie registers as a normal stomp

[Chdata]

So like an upwards tornado jump?

[Kincyr]

in a way, yea. in retrospect, I realize it is very similar to (read: subconsciously ripped off of) NSMB's propellor hat, with the added bonus of the "propellor" damaging weak foes

[Kincyr]

Your ideas are good, they just make me feel like quoting TVTropes... and that doesn't have to be a bad thing.

I know what you mean. an example from (ironically enough,) TVTropes would be 'Darker and Edgier', which defines itself for the most part as an attempt to boost ratings. a couple of franchises have actually managed to use that trope exceedingly well, despite it being for reasons other than the sake of ratings

[Cobalt]

As for music, I nominate the Beautiful Katamari credits theme for some bittersweetness. Oh, and Nowhere from Madlax because it's just awesome. And a SMW version would be pretty cool guy.

[raekuul]

Don't read if you don't want to know what I'm planning for my A2MT levels

Now, I liked the idea of the Mirage Desert thing level from world 7, with the Layer 2 specifically. I'm thinking of taking that idea and expanding on that with the level "Dimensional Shift?"

My main-game level(s?) would be in three sections. The first section would be relatively vanilla in execution, not unlike the first section of Mirage Desert (with layer 1 level and layer 2 background). The second Section would be where it gets confusing: Layer 2 is now also level, probably starting with a dickish muncher trap to establish that, yes, layer 2 is now part of the level. I don't entirely know how I'd make it work, but you need to go to the end to get a P-Switch and bring that back to somewhere marked with a Layer-2 Yellow Pipe (only yellow pipe in the section) that would bring up a layer-1 blue door, leading to section 3. Section 3 is section 1 again, only with the layers switched.

The idea is to be disorienting. Very incredibly disorienting.

I'm going to be testing this using 105 for the concept test. Is the Goal Point Sphere an object or a sprite?

[AnimeRules]

Sprite, but there are some custom blocks that can act like it.

[rockdet]

1. I really like the score display... I'm a big fan of unnecessary big numbers. Though, I do know that the score thing limits what can be done, but I'm not in charge so it doesn't matter anyway.

4. Timer for timer-important levels sounds good

5. Hard mode... I have one major question: Would that mean that the player would have to experience the same plot 3 times? Is this important at all (my question?)

6. Does the second game have to have a whole separate video for opening plot again? I know that it got some complaints from a few people that there was so much story in a Mario game. It doesn't really matter to me either way, but it's just a question.

7. Could the story go throughout the game better? In ASMT, there were only like 6 levels with any plot relevant information, and it was in high volume. Perhaps to lower the amount of endurance reading people have to do, the plot could be spread thinner across more levels and come out more comfortably.

7. Totally agreed. It MUST be better spread all over the game.
6. Yeah, I don't mind at all for that, it's actually kinda fun.
5. I don't like the idea of a hard mode, for the fact that it's already a collab and it's hard enough to make a proper difficulty curve out of this. Only once will be just enough.
4. Agreed
1. I don't know why but I agree with that. It's so purpose-less, but it's still fun. There could also be some sort of gimmick related to score, like "Uh man you don't have 20M points, you can't go through here" or the return of the "You don't want to score any point in here, fella!"

I love the idea of an upwards tornado jump, but that'd open up a whole load of new ideas for levels. And some could be actually broken in another way, question mark?

Also, I don't know why I wrote countdown-wise there, but it's there!

[Terry von Feleday]

Well, that the plot will be spread out more evenly is pretty obvious at this point. It was definitely one of ASMT's greater shortcomings, after all.

Also, I don't know whether we'll end up making a hard mode type thing, but if we do, how about making it an "Iris mode" of sorts? I just got the idea from the player-2-or-no-player-2 discussion in the plot thread. Different abilities would explain why she wouldn't have a spinjump, at least. Would it be possible to alter the dialogue accordingly?
Just an idea.

[raocow]

People, the score was already removed for a death count counter and that will probably be remained as such. And that's that. Don't try to change things around just for the sake of changing things around.

[Chdata]

We should move the hud to the bottom of the screen *shot*

Although one of those SPM Mimi things would be funny. Collect a million rupees to continue.

[Blinx]

Is there any chance that we can remove the 10 minutes of plot at the beginning or at least make it skippable

[Chdata]

Yes it's very easy. we could just have a room that has one door that says "Plot Door" and one that says "Skip Door"

[raocow]

Yes it's very easy. we could just have a room that has one door that says "Plot Door" and one that says "Skip Door"

This is the best solution I have ever heard.

Or anything just as blatant - that's hilarious.

[O-Card]

Yes it's very easy. we could just have a room that has one door that says "Plot Door" and one that says "Skip Door"

yes!

if you don't do this I won't even watch the first video even if he skips it.