Boss discussion ~We Did Not Throw The Morsel Block~

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Boss discussion ~We Did Not Throw The Morsel Block~

Post by KobaBeach »

okay i started this because i craved some shitposting but maybe this can get some ideas going for the like two boss asmers we somehow have (me and psi)

~THREAD RULES~
* no julius tier shit for now

shitpost:
boss ideas:
* mario at an oblique angle
* hd kirby or whatever that one manta ray was called
* the entirety of sonic 06
* a picture of a dog (doubles as a kaizo portrait room)
* lost episode
* your favorite vtuber
* heavy balrog (with amy rose and vectorman on the mega drive as punching gloves) from sonic 2 special edition (quiz is done with tokimemo code)
* five cents
* super mario
* george wood eating pizza
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Re: Boss discussion ~We Did Not Throw The Morsel Block~

Post by tangy »

the guy from karoshi puzzle boss
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Lord Ruby
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Re: Boss discussion ~We Did Not Throw The Morsel Block~

Post by Lord Ruby »

KobaBeach wrote: 2 months ago * no julius tier shit for now
watch me
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Re: Boss discussion ~We Did Not Throw The Morsel Block~

Post by KobaBeach »

real talk i think a boss where you have to set fire to bits of the arena and goad the boss into burning their ass would be a funny boss
basically carol's adon toad +1

you'd need a hitpoint system to keep fire mario forever without breaking the game
also maybe freeram to store demo/iris' status and item box, pre-fireball

i tried fleshing this out in my Mind Palace:tm: but it just came out as a carol boss oop

don't mind me im just pirating star ocean 4 and 5 on my ps3 triple
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Re: Boss discussion ~We Did Not Throw The Morsel Block~

Post by Super Maks 64 »

-A boss that's an amalgamation of various bosses from the JRPGs you have in your backlog, in style of Brutal Mario's various homages; preferrably with at least one mode 7 phase.
-Dahnamic Boss boss rush
-Multiphase One-hit/Silver P-Switch Black Plague boss collab
-Vanilla Bowser with the vanilla graphics, even for Mechakoopas, the glitched blush sprite, and Mario's Adventure is over text
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Re: Boss discussion ~We Did Not Throw The Morsel Block~

Post by Lord Ruby »

KobaBeach wrote: 2 months ago real talk i think a boss where you have to set fire to bits of the arena and goad the boss into burning their ass would be a funny boss
basically carol's adon toad +1

you'd need a hitpoint system to keep fire mario forever without breaking the game
also maybe freeram to store demo/iris' status and item box, pre-fireball

i tried fleshing this out in my Mind Palace:tm: but it just came out as a carol boss oop

don't mind me im just pirating star ocean 4 and 5 on my ps3 triple
That's a really neat idea. I believe I've already mentioned this, but I'd also want an HP system for the boss battle (and associated stage, most likely) I'm going to make, since it relies on Demo being caped.
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Re: Boss discussion ~We Did Not Throw The Morsel Block~

Post by KobaBeach »

Super Maks 64 wrote: 2 months ago -A boss that's an amalgamation of various bosses from the JRPGs you have in your backlog, in style of Brutal Mario's various homages; preferrably with at least one mode 7 phase.
finally. sans in super mario worl (im stopping at true pacifist)
Lord Ruby wrote: 2 months ago That's a really neat idea. I believe I've already mentioned this, but I'd also want an HP system for the boss battle (and associated stage, most likely) I'm going to make, since it relies on Demo being caped.
i'll try 2 make it happen
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Re: Boss discussion ~We Did Not Throw The Morsel Block~

Post by EllenHouraisan »

100% serious idea:
The giant spear man.
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Re: Boss discussion ~We Did Not Throw The Morsel Block~

Post by SAJewers »

If someone wants to replace the

Fireball Whisky Boss

in sublevel FB feel free (though try and keep the sprite as it fits the level)

So, suggested this a while back in the discord, but a

Flandre Scarlet/Ned Flanders mashup boss would be funny (while poking fun at raocow's pronunciation)

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Re: Boss discussion ~We Did Not Throw The Morsel Block~

Post by PSI Ninja »

In general, I would like to see bosses that the player can more actively fight against. Bosses where you're always free to deal damage, instead of needing to wait around for them to reveal their weak point or to spawn a projectile that the player can throw. As far as design goes, this could mean giving the player more opportunities to jump on the boss's head, reducing or removing the invincibility/rage periods after the boss takes a hit, or giving the player a projectile-based powerup that can't be lost (e.g., Fire Flower). The aforementioned HP system could be used to help with the latter.
Lord Ruby wrote: 2 months ago That's a really neat idea. I believe I've already mentioned this, but I'd also want an HP system for the boss battle (and associated stage, most likely) I'm going to make, since it relies on Demo being caped.
What were your ideas, specifically? I was also planning to make a cape-only level/boss, where Demo is in constant flight and the player would need to cape fly throughout the entire level. Two months ago, I posted a prototype of my boss idea, where you need to divebomb on top of it in order to deal damage. If there's too much overlap with your plans, then I'll just trash my level idea (I didn't even start yet, anyway).
SAJewers wrote: 2 months ago If someone wants to replace the

Fireball Whisky Boss

in sublevel FB feel free (though try and keep the sprite as it fits the level)
Honestly, I don't like the boss in The Castle of Spirits as it is right now. If we're not doing a full replacement, then it needs tweaking. The main issue is that you spend too much time waiting around for the boss to spawn a throw block that's needed to damage it. It also takes four hits, which drags the fight out even longer. It seems like the type of "carol boss" that we want to avoid using/making for this collab. None of this is your fault though, since it's not something that you coded yourself (it's an existing boss sprite hosted on SMWC).
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Re: Boss discussion ~We Did Not Throw The Morsel Block~

Post by Lord Ruby »

PSI Ninja wrote: 2 months ago
Lord Ruby wrote: 2 months ago That's a really neat idea. I believe I've already mentioned this, but I'd also want an HP system for the boss battle (and associated stage, most likely) I'm going to make, since it relies on Demo being caped.
What were your ideas, specifically? I was also planning to make a cape-only level/boss, where Demo is in constant flight and the player would need to cape fly throughout the entire level. Two months ago, I posted a prototype of my boss idea, where you need to divebomb on top of it in order to deal damage. If there's too much overlap with your plans, then I'll just trash my level idea (I didn't even start yet, anyway).
I don't think there would be much overlap then, as mine would mostly revolve around safely reaching run speed for setting up earthquakes as well as slow-falling, with a bit of cape-whacking too. Boss would have attacks that leave risky openings for taking off, some that leave clear openings, and a few that don't leave openings at all (mainly right after the boss was hurt), so there should be some fair room for the player actively engaging in the battle.
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Re: Boss discussion ~We Did Not Throw The Morsel Block~

Post by KobaBeach »

PSI Ninja wrote: 2 months ago In general, I would like to see bosses that the player can more actively fight against. Bosses where you're always free to deal damage, instead of needing to wait around for them to reveal their weak point or to spawn a projectile that the player can throw. As far as design goes, this could mean giving the player more opportunities to jump on the boss's head, reducing or removing the invincibility/rage periods after the boss takes a hit, or giving the player a projectile-based powerup that can't be lost (e.g., Fire Flower). The aforementioned HP system could be used to help with the latter.
Big same, I just worry about plotting them out.

I feel like a thing we shouldn't worry about is forcing them into set piece material by over extending HP values or making absurdly long attack patterns. If they're fun, they'll be memorable by themselves, regardless of runtime.

In this fashion I feel like designing bosses could be a sort of collaborative effort between the team, but making sure we don't go for stuff that requires too much effort and delays the project's end goal.

I feel like games that we could take inspiration from, would be the better 2D Sonics, Gunstar Heroes, Alien Soldier, Silhouette Mirage, some of Konami's 2D platformers like Rocket Knight... I feel like those do a good effort of making bosses memorable without over extending their presence artificially.
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Re: Boss discussion ~We Did Not Throw The Morsel Block~

Post by raekuul »

wait are we still shitposting or are we making legit suggestions now

if we're making legit suggestions, how much work would it be to have more than one koopaling active at the same time?

if we're shitposting, how much work would it be to have all the koopalings active at the same time?
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Re: Boss discussion ~We Did Not Throw The Morsel Block~

Post by KobaBeach »

raekuul wrote: 2 months ago wait are we still shitposting or are we making legit suggestions now
both is good
raekuul wrote: 2 months ago if we're making legit suggestions, how much work would it be to have more than one koopaling active at the same time?

if we're shitposting, how much work would it be to have all the koopalings active at the same time?
sonikku is doing it with dynamic sprites i think

iggy and larry would be a problem because they require a mode 7 platform
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Re: Boss discussion ~We Did Not Throw The Morsel Block~

Post by camwoodstock »

&: Once upon a time we had an idea for a boss design that isn't really... A direct reference to anything, it'd just be a neat setpiece for a Wham-Bam-Rock-esque "floating hands that are fighting you" fight. The main idea we had was that the fight would basically be that, but you'd need to stomp on the hands to damage it. The "creature" would be some nebulous blob of sorts, but the only details you can make out are the silhouette of the beast, the arm and hand of the enemy (the "arm" being 3 circular sprites, kind of like a Petz game), and a big main cyclops eyeball in the background. I took the liberty of drawing it as a reference if someone thinks anything of it.
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Re: Boss discussion ~We Did Not Throw The Morsel Block~

Post by KobaBeach »

camwoodstock wrote: 1 month ago &: Once upon a time we had an idea for a boss design that isn't really... A direct reference to anything, it'd just be a neat setpiece for a Wham-Bam-Rock-esque "floating hands that are fighting you" fight. The main idea we had was that the fight would basically be that, but you'd need to stomp on the hands to damage it. The "creature" would be some nebulous blob of sorts, but the only details you can make out are the silhouette of the beast, the arm and hand of the enemy (the "arm" being 3 circular sprites, kind of like a Petz game), and a big main cyclops eyeball in the background. I took the liberty of drawing it as a reference if someone thinks anything of it.
I see the creature being layer 2 DMA'd in, the arms possibly being cluster sprites (wrong usage of this type of sprite??) and the hands being composed of like one large sprite each? SA-1 allows for less sprite tile limitations along with a larger amount of sprites on screen, so this seems relatively doable. Yeah, I think it might be possible?

I could ask rextep (I'm friends with them on MyAnimeList and I can reach them through Heraga, I believe) for assistance on studying Treasure's trigonometry method for Alien Soldier and Gunstar Heroes on MegaDrive for the arm routines, which they used for Bowser's Brother in SMW Gaiden, which also had multi jointed arms (wrong term?).

I'm not sure how hard transferring Treasure's routines from 68000 (MD) to 65c816 (SNES) is.
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Re: Boss discussion ~We Did Not Throw The Morsel Block~

Post by camwoodstock »

KobaBeach wrote: 1 month ago
camwoodstock wrote: 1 month ago &: Once upon a time we had an idea for a boss design that isn't really... A direct reference to anything, it'd just be a neat setpiece for a Wham-Bam-Rock-esque "floating hands that are fighting you" fight. The main idea we had was that the fight would basically be that, but you'd need to stomp on the hands to damage it. The "creature" would be some nebulous blob of sorts, but the only details you can make out are the silhouette of the beast, the arm and hand of the enemy (the "arm" being 3 circular sprites, kind of like a Petz game), and a big main cyclops eyeball in the background. I took the liberty of drawing it as a reference if someone thinks anything of it.
I see the creature being layer 2 DMA'd in, the arms possibly being cluster sprites (wrong usage of this type of sprite??) and the hands being composed of like one large sprite each? SA-1 allows for less sprite tile limitations along with a larger amount of sprites on screen, so this seems relatively doable. Yeah, I think it might be possible?

I could ask rextep (I'm friends with them on MyAnimeList and I can reach them through Heraga, I believe) for assistance on studying Treasure's trigonometry method for Alien Soldier and Gunstar Heroes on MegaDrive for the arm routines, which they used for Bowser's Brother in SMW Gaiden, which also had multi jointed arms (wrong term?).

I'm not sure how hard transferring Treasure's routines from 68000 (MD) to 65c816 (SNES) is.
&: Yeah, this is very much a Treasure-esque boss. Or at least, whatever the trick was to make Wham Bam Rock tick. I'm not too versed, but with the 3 "arm" sprites and the hand, implying the pattern relies basically entirely on the hand doing fancy tricks and no projectiles, that's at least 4 "sprites", right? And SMW is limited to 8 or so, if we recall. We do have a bit of wiggle room on that front.
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Re: Boss discussion ~We Did Not Throw The Morsel Block~

Post by KobaBeach »

camwoodstock wrote: 1 month ago &: Yeah, this is very much a Treasure-esque boss. Or at least, whatever the trick was to make Wham Bam Rock tick. I'm not too versed, but with the 3 "arm" sprites and the hand, implying the pattern relies basically entirely on the hand doing fancy tricks and no projectiles, that's at least 4 "sprites", right? And SMW is limited to 8 or so, if we recall. We do have a bit of wiggle room on that front.
Vanilla is limited to 8, SA-1 can handle like 12 without lag, I think. And I'm thinking of making the arm sprites, cluster sprites, so we're not taking up normal sprite real estate in the memory. I just wonder how much we'll have of graphical real-estate for the hands, I don't know if 32x32 will be grandiose enough. Maybe 48x32/32x48/whatever?

We could make it dynamic, but I had a hard time making dynamic sprites work on Lunar Helper, might need to make a new SA-1 baserom to insert everything in due to Maddy's base SA-1 possibly not having Dynamic Sprites available, and then maybe inserting Dynamic Z if it has any features that could help, like larger sprite support? I'd also need to learn Dynamic Sprite animation routines. Insertion should just take a minute though, Lunar Helper after all, but I need to be careful about 4season's level with the birds, extension bytes!

Anyway that's going in the backburner and we'll see if it's a good idea to pursue further or not, I'd honestly like to see it. I'm open to learning how to code dynamic sprites, it's a neat way to sorta find a loophole in SMW's graphical limitations. Also need to learn more about Cluster Sprites, I haven't coded SMW in a while!

---------------------------

There was a Dynamic Sprite Set System (kinda like how SMB3 dynamically loads its spritesets) patch by lx5, I think? Link here. I wonder if that would be possible to use in an eventual sequel sort of half a year or more after this one is finished? I'd probably ask for help with editing the hijacks to fit our needs though, it's very tailored for lx5's case as is.

It could make it easier for SMBX aligned folk. As changes go, I'd just have to be careful not to make weird gameplay changes and physics changes that mess with SMW centric folk like Jolpe.

Sorry for getting sidetracked! ^^
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