And Another Thing - discussion thread (FINAL DEADLINE FOR ALMOST EVERYTHING APRIL 30ND)

[Rixithechao]

I’m relatively certain the tileset I posted was made by Terry von Feleday for A2MT. I never was able to get confirmation on the artist, and I’ve been putting off skimming back through the A2MT LP to check whether the game used the tiles. I guess now is as good a time as any, though…

…okay, going by the thumbnails, at least, it doesn’t look like they were used in A2MT.

[KobaBeach]

…okay, going by the thumbnails, at least, it doesn’t look like they were used in A2MT.

No, I watched A2MT a few months ago and nah

My preferences aside, I'd say that a decision on the tilesets needs to be made early, since replacing the base tilesets could break the graphics of levels that were made when the original tilesets were used. Especially for levels that mix base and custom graphics, ie where the custom graphics serve as supplemental graphics that extend what the base tileset can do.

k

ping

pang

pong

as the people who are actually making a few stages for this collab feel free to give your onion

Mine is like. Whatever as long as it makes the ASMT people happy I, really just want more SMW stuff on the talkhou. The VIP YI arrow sign and SMB1 cement block are staying though fuck you obana

[KobaBeach]

oh and we've been discussing some stuff on discordhaus I'm sorry we haven't posted it here, we've mostly been spitballing and thinking about making levels uh

I can make a small discord so people don't have to go through discordhaus to talk about it, or I dunno maybe we can do something on the ASMT server? I'm not sure, should I join?

[SAJewers]

…okay, going by the thumbnails, at least, it doesn’t look like they were used in A2MT.

Quick check in LM says that's correct.

Though I can't remember if we have a Buzzy Beetle reskin or not and I'm absolutely down for those guys being waddling football or diving helmets.

A2MT already has a buzzy beetle re-skin (that rixi already posted)

Depends if someone's willing to do all the art

I'll bite - what all are we missing? I recall ASMT1 missing a lot of blocks, backgrounds, and BGOs, which overlaps nicely with a personal project I have in mind.

In Terms of Sprites, not including anything custom (as the baserom currently doesn't let you add them in lunarmagic), we don't to my knowledge have anything for:

• Koopalings
• Fire Projectiles
• Koopaling Fireball
• Moving Ghost House Ledge
• Net Door
• Checkerboard, Flying Rock, Gray, and Brown Platforms (and chain).
• Coin Game Cloud
• Scale Platforms
• Bowling Ball
• Floating Spike Ball
• Reznor (this was redrawn for WtH though, so maybe we can just use that)
• Bowser Statue Fireball
• Gray Moving Block
• Spotlight
• Fire from from the Jumping Spitting Plants
• Wings for things like Winged platforms
• Bubble

In Terms of Layer 1 Objects, it's probably easier to list what we do have that's changed/we have sprites for, again not including custom stuff (nor the tileset rixi posted):

• ? & Used Blocks
• Note Blocks
• Turn & Throw Blocks
• Munchers
• Gray Cement Blocks
• Midway and Goal Posts & Tape
• ! Blocks (note A2XT recoloured the yellow ! block to be orange)
• Moons
• On/Off Block
• Triangle for running up walls

Also, I forgot a few things that were drawn for A2XT2 that need porting to SMW:

• Coins
• Dragon Coin
• Vine
• Keyhole
• Castle Spikes
• Demo and Iris (though porting Iris would require the Separate Luigi Graphics Patch)
• Regular Door (should probably use the smb3 door replacement since i think the smw one is based off the nsmb door)
• POW Door
• Ghost House Door
• Boss Door

[Valentine]

can we please remember that the only way this project is going to get completed is if we keep the scope small and the baserom accessible.

these graphic replacements put in more work for the organizers and automatically make the baserom less accessible (although i feel like the amount of stuff in it to begin with doesn't help) and I think they're frankly unnecessary. The tileset resprites especially are going to lower accessibility and would make it a hassle for people who don't want them.

The core idea of the collab is for it to be anything really, and if we're putting in the new sprites then on some level, those are arbitrary limits that will lower participation and make people who want to make cool vanilla aesthetics very unhappy for no real gain.

[KobaBeach]

can we please remember that the only way this project is going to get completed is if we keep the scope small and the baserom accessible.

these graphic replacements put in more work for the organizers and automatically make the baserom less accessible (although i feel like the amount of stuff in it to begin with doesn't help) and I think they're frankly unnecessary. The tileset resprites especially are going to lower accessibility and would make it a hassle for people who don't want them.

The core idea of the collab is for it to be anything really, and if we're putting in the new sprites then on some level, those are arbitrary limits that will lower participation and make people who want to make cool vanilla aesthetics very unhappy for no real gain.

Thank you I was about to say something like this.

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Like, okay y'all please calm the fuck down you are asking for simply too much. This is just a simple collab, we're not trying to make A2XT2 on SMW. Please. You're kind of speaking like you're in charge of the project. Last I checked I'm the one handling that.

Just know that I'm ready to veto any insane scope creep. There's a reason I'm apprehensive about stuff like bosses.

[Disk Poppy]

I was thinking it would be SMW with a bit of Demoverse like the first ASMT. Remember that there is more to redraw than vanilla gfx, as it also uses custom sprites and blocks, most of them with graphics included to match Mario series. If you wanna go the SMWCP2 route (which I would be against as it still hasn't released after 10 years) then you have to remember most of the graphics for SMWCP2 were thrown out for space reasons, being inconsistent and/or ugly and still it is a massive headache to manage them all (and now despite SMWC being bigger than Talkhaus, it's harder and harder to find volunteers for the remaining gfx). If you wanna make a massive collab then better wait for better tooling and someone who actually wants to run a project this huge.

[Rixithechao]

Apologies for getting caught up in the excitement
For what it's worth, I wasn't trying to push graphics replacements or take over or anything, just provide assets and ideas and stuff that might be useful. If y'all don't want to use them that is 100% fine by me, they can always be revisited in other projects down the line.

I'll go ahead and remove myself from this thread for the time being, will pop back in if Koba or any other core devs specifically want me for anything. I'm happy to provide any graphics y'all ask for, otherwise here's wishing the best for this hack!

[KobaBeach]

Apologies for getting caught up in the excitement
For what it's worth, I wasn't trying to push graphics replacements or take over or anything, just provide assets and ideas and stuff that might be useful. If y'all don't want to use them that is 100% fine by me, they can always be revisited in other projects down the line.

I'll go ahead and remove myself from this thread for the time being, will pop back in if Koba or any other core devs specifically want me for anything. I'm happy to provide any graphics y'all ask for, otherwise here's wishing the best for this hack!

Yeah I'm sorry for snapping I was just overwhelmed. I just. Don't want this to become another A2XT2 where it pushes so hard onto a higher scope to the point of it causing a massive delay. I just want this to be a fun collab for dumb nerds. *hugs the rixx*

[EllenHouraisan]

So, clear up one thing for me, please. Is it already time to claim and make levels? Because peeps are already claiming spots on the spreadsheet and stuff, which I thought a bit weird since, you know, pre-planning phase and all that.

[KobaBeach]

So, clear up one thing for me, please. Is it already time to claim and make levels? Because peeps are already claiming spots on the spreadsheet and stuff, which I thought a bit weird since, you know, pre-planning phase and all that.

honestly i might as well remove that

[SAJewers]

Apologies for getting caught up in the excitement
For what it's worth, I wasn't trying to push graphics replacements or take over or anything, just provide assets and ideas and stuff that might be useful. If y'all don't want to use them that is 100% fine by me, they can always be revisited in other projects down the line.

I'll go ahead and remove myself from this thread for the time being, will pop back in if Koba or any other core devs specifically want me for anything. I'm happy to provide any graphics y'all ask for, otherwise here's wishing the best for this hack!

Yeah I'm sorry for snapping I was just overwhelmed. I just. Don't want this to become another A2XT2 where it pushes so hard onto a higher scope to the point of it causing a massive delay. I just want this to be a fun collab for dumb nerds. *hugs the rixx*

this is talkhaus tho scope creep is inevitable /s

In all seriousness though, for things like bosses (or anything else anyone suggests), it's probably best to just assume it's not happening until it actually happens and is in your hands.

Anyway, back on topic, 2 music things:
1) does anyone have the A2MT/ASMT music resources on hand? I may use a track or 2 for a level
2) who here is good with making/porting music to smw? In case anyone wants to have music ported over, it'd be good to establish if anyone can beforehand.

[camwoodstock]

Anyway, back on topic, 2 music things:
1) does anyone have the A2MT/ASMT music resources on hand? I may use a track or 2 for a level
2) who here is good with making/porting music to smw? In case anyone wants to have music ported over, it'd be good to establish if anyone can beforehand.

on the subject of 1, iwrc (if we remember correctly) at least Some of the ASMT/A2MT OST is literally just, in spc form, in the data of a2xt (and g2 and probably g1 but we've not checked). we know this, bc we still dunno how to open them, when we want to so badly... ;~;

[SAJewers]

I mean, yeah, it could be converted, but I'd rather just having the original .txt files if possible (that work in the latest addmusic)

[TiKi]

yeah, sorry if my ideas were over-the-top. like i said in my offering to port koopaling graphics post i was fine with the original idea of it being a mario game. i'd just like it to be all marioverse or all demoverse for the immersion if you get me.

[SAJewers]

I mean, if you want to make new sprites for the bosses, and whoever doing the bosses is ok with it, then I don't see a problem as a willing contributor to the collab, though I'm not an organizer.

[TiKi]

I mean, if you want to make new sprites for the bosses, and whoever doing the bosses is ok with it, then I don't see a problem as a willing contributor to the collab, though I'm not an organizer.

I just meant the new sprites from SMM2 for the vanilla Koopalings, given that those are the bosses that Koba suggested in the OP. I figured I should try something to get people excited about seeing those bosses again... not to mentioned I've always kind of wanted to try it.

Though I'm unsure if any bosses besides Lemmy and Wendy can be changed to use all 15 colours instead of 7 (3bpp to 4bpp, basically). Lunar Magic does this automatically for what seems to be all normal sprites (ever noticed how a lot of graphics in the vanilla game only used 7 colours?), but the boss battles are very much abnormal.

[tangy]

Regarding tilesets:
I'm fine with enemy replacements, and certain special blocks (? block, turn, note, etc.) being replaced. Anything more than that and I think we stray too far

[Nao]

I think we should get some levels and significant progress done first, see how this project is going to shape up. Most people will likely be using vanilla sprites or common custom sprites in their levels. Later on we can consider to replace them with A2MT graphics and using Demo (it won't be too much of a hassle to do this with vanilla sprites)

[SAJewers]

i mean, at this point it seems like almost everyone who's posted here wants to use demo, the question is whether or not we post over the new a2xt gfx (and if we change any other gfx)

[KobaBeach]

Later on we can consider to replace them with A2MT graphics and using Demo (it won't be too much of a hassle to do this with vanilla sprites)

i mean, at this point it seems like almost everyone who's posted here wants to use demo, the question is whether or not we post over the new a2xt gfx (and if we change any other gfx)

Doing separate graphics for Iris shouldn't be too hard either? See this patch. The way I had the baserom set up has it being rebuilt everytime Maddy and underway's Lunar Helper is run.

Lunar Helper is a build system for SMW ROMs originally made by Maddy Thorson and slightly modified by me (underway).

Step by step, what it does is

- Taking a clean SMW ROM
- Applying an initial .bps patch to it (more on this later)
- Running GPS and PIXI on it
- Applying your patches to it
- Running UberASM Tool on it
- Running AddmusicK on it
- Inserting various SMW data (graphics, map16, overworld, title screen, title screen moves etc.) into it
- Inserting level files into it

As you can see, it basically takes a bunch of resources stored as individual files (i.e. all of your blocks, sprites, patches, graphics, levels, etc.) and creates a single fully functional hacked ROM from them.

I'll pick the collab back up from Disk Poppy's hands once I'm done with Star Ocean 3's main campaign, currently applying a +3500 ATK bonus to all my Laser Weapons with the help of max refined Orichalcum because overkilling is cool. Gotta have that 10000 dmg yo. Not gonna bother with Boots of Prowess.

Disk Poppy was porting the baserom to github I believe? Need to relearn git, haven't used it in a few years since I was with my ex (now friend). Thankfully Poppy offered to re-teach me (could have just asked my ex Peter too...). I'm not sure if the recent ASMT collabs use any github type site, SMWCP2 uses bitbucket these days IIRC.

I will say I don't want to use any global powerups beyond Feather and Fire Flower, due to how lx5 doesn't do upkeep on their Powerup patch anymore. I will also add that if there is a need to use Dynamic Sprites on anything, I'm willing to remake the initial_data bps patch to include DSX (and thus include anonimzwx's Dynamic Z). I think Maddy or underway, whomever made the pre-made initial bps patch for SA1 didn't include it.

However I don't really recommend using dynamic sprites for anything other than a lategame boss, like how Casio Mario World does. anonim's hack tries to use it on every sprite for pre-rendered aesthetics similar to Donkey Kong Country and whatnot, but I feel like that's too far out of any scope of ours unless a decent number of us level up in Mario hack literacy.

Iris might have to don a cape instead of the raccoon tail, to put it short.

As for the idea of multiple characters like rao, Sheath, Kood, I know no one mentioned this but I'm just gonna add a disclaimer and say that. I'm afraid that's too far. Too much effort and I think a lot of it would have to be remade from whole cloth. There are very few hacks that pull this off well and a lot of them tend to resort to stuff like the 32x32 player sprite patch to cycle between character sprites.

I dunno if anyone has ever made Lost Levels styled or Doki Doki Panic styled Luigi physics either, I know Adam kept bugging Sonikku to make them, but... That's a no. I don't know where to begin to even make that alteration.

There IS a physics modifier by Thomas, that could help me get started with looking for the proper values and make a patch for Luigi, probably would just need to add conditionals and indexes on what player is currently active for what value to load (granted I'd have to look up a Lost Levels disassembly for the Luigi physics, I don't want to feel it out and have inaccurate physics), but that'd be beyond our scope.

Just putting those out there.

[TiKi]

purple iris for final boss

[KobaBeach]

added a poll to name this garbage hack, ends in 7 days

purple iris for final boss

she will be mode 7

[SAJewers]

I'm not sure if the recent ASMT collabs use any github type site, SMWCP2 uses bitbucket these days IIRC.

Both Gaiden/Advent projects used github.

Also, on the topic of patches, is there an up to date demos patch we can add like a2mt and asmt had?

[KobaBeach]

Both Gaiden/Advent projects used github.

Also, on the topic of patches, is there an up to date demos patch we can add like a2mt and asmt had?

Thank you. I actually have a github account myself.

There is the ycz one, there's also another one used by Dram World that replaces lives and I kind of don't want to obfuscate that. Will need to edit the status bar.