And Another Thing - discussion thread

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name this garbage hack

Poll ended at 4 months ago

A Third Mario Thing
12
34%
And Another Thing
13
37%
A Different Mario Thing
0
No votes
One More Mario Thing
2
6%
An ASMT Thing
5
14%
A2MT2
0
No votes
R-Type Final 4
3
9%
 
Total votes: 35

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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by camwoodstock »

&: Maybe a silly question--with the goopas that have different headgears than shells, will they still be color-coded? I think it is imperative we still color code these funny little guys.
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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by TiKi »

SAJewers wrote: 4 months ago
TiKi wrote: 4 months ago
(Oh yeah I'd appreciate if someone uploaded the a2mt master palette and SP1 so that I can get started on those barrel Goopas thanks)
this should be everything from a2mt
a2mt.7z
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KobaBeach wrote: 4 months ago A2MT sprites added in 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)
TiKi wrote: 4 months ago I'd be willing to settle for "any crossover goes as long as it's not from Mario", but I'm not an actual level designer so my opinion doesn't really count.
???????????????
What is in question here? Me not wanting Mario and Demo stuff to touch, or my opinion not counting because I'm not a level designer?
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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by KobaBeach »

I removed the coyote time patch, sorry Catabo. People felt it was too much of a drastic alteration so I felt it was best to leave the game as is.

However, PSI Ninja has suggested the patches for the wall clip and double sprite glitch (can't find it). Is everyone okay with those in?
TiKi wrote: 4 months ago What is in question here? Me not wanting Mario and Demo stuff to touch, or my opinion not counting because I'm not a level designer?
First off, stop taking things so personally.

Second, do you know the mammoth amount of effort that you're asking by wanting SMW to be as Mario free as possible? People come to this collab wanting to make Mario levels not "I Can't Believe This Is Not Mario" Levels. If you're expecting a Sicari style remodeling out of this collab you're barking up the wrong tree.

And yes Nintendo is like a super shitty company, they just thanked the FBI for busting someone who sold modchips and sending them to like 40 month jail. But so is like every large company. Square-Enix? Bad. Valve? Bad. Sega? Ohohoho you better Believe they're bad. Ethical Consumption Under Capitalism Does Not Exist, and if you're trying to say that by merely making Mario levels with ROMs that Nintendo isn't even profiting off and would rather see removed we're supporting them, you're being disingenuous to yourself and entitled to others.

I will not debate this.
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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by PSI Ninja »

KobaBeach wrote: 4 months ago However, PSI Ninja has suggested the patches for the wall clip and double sprite glitch (can't find it). Is everyone okay with those in?
Sorry, my bad, this is what I meant when I said "wall clip patch" in the romhack shack server (called the "Walljump/Note Block Glitch Fix"): https://www.smwcentral.net/?p=section&a ... s&id=19932

And here's the "double sprite glitch patch" (called the "Double Spinjump Antifail"): https://www.smwcentral.net/?p=section&a ... s&id=13400

I don't know how people feel about the one Koba posted, though ("Don't Get Stuck In Walls Fix"). I suppose it would be nice to fix the jank, but I don't know if anyone's planning to design a level with this jank in mind.
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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by KobaBeach »

PSI Ninja wrote: 4 months ago Sorry, my bad, this is what I meant when I said "wall clip patch" in the romhack shack server (called the "Walljump/Note Block Glitch Fix"): https://www.smwcentral.net/?p=section&a ... s&id=19932

And here's the "double sprite glitch patch" (called the "Double Spinjump Antifail"): https://www.smwcentral.net/?p=section&a ... s&id=13400

I don't know how people feel about the one Koba posted, though ("Don't Get Stuck In Walls Fix"). I suppose it would be nice to fix the jank, but I don't know if anyone's planning to design a level with this jank in mind.
Okay I'm fine with fixing double sprite glitch, but I don't know about patching the wall jump. As a rule I avoided anything fixing anything that benefited the player or could be toyed with by a level designer, like how bonking a Bowser Statue makes it shoot fireballs, lovingly rendered by carol in their vip5 stage as a kancho, or ddongchim.
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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by CrispyMWHC »

Interested. Never made a SMW level before so I'm already pre-nervous as to how it's gonna go!
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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by TiKi »

First off, I'm not taking things personally, I just had to ask that because "?????" is something that needs clarifying.

Secondly, I'm not thinking about capitalism or Nintendo in any way. I am not making Demoverse graphics, in this hack or in general, for anti-Nintendo or anti-capitalistic reasons.

I embrace the game's theme either as a Mario-themed hack or a Demo-themed hack. If I was really against it being Mario I wouldn't have offered to do those Koopaling graphics, because I wanted to provide some Mario-y surprises to the future players. I just want it to have a consistent, immersive theme instead of being "The Mushroom Kingdom But There's Also Demo Critters Here".

My plan isn't "I Can't Believe It's Not Mario", because that implies being Mario is a bad thing. As I said, I am all for Mario-themed hacks. Himself, his enemies, his locations, his world. What my plan is is "I CAN Believe It's Demo". Herself, her enemies, her locations, her world. I just think the Demoverse deserves to be its own thing, and I thought (and still hope) that I can help provide that.

And as SAJewers said about only making suggestions if you can do them - if I thought I could personally pull it off, why not suggest it? If I succeed, we get a cool, immersive hack, and if I fail, we still get some enhanced spiffiness for this hack and extra stuff usable for ASMBXT. Nothing can go wrong in either outcome, right?

Not quoting because I don't think you want a ping right now, huh.

And to the mods (and Koba as well); when Koba said he would not debate this I presumed he meant the ethical consumption part under the assumption that was what I was meaning (the part I refuted, denying the motivation in empathic italics). If he meant the entire thing, I'm sorry to both of you in advance.
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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by Catabo »

KobaBeach wrote: 4 months ago I removed the coyote time patch, sorry Catabo. People felt it was too much of a drastic alteration so I felt it was best to leave the game as is.
All good! They know the game better than I do.

edit: TiKi posted while I was composing this and it turns out I was entirely off the mark. Still leaving it as food for thought:
I somewhat understand the hangup on Demo in that there are two different "Demoverses", roughly analogous to SMBX and SMW: one has a plot, recurring characters, etc, while the other is pure "haha let's make a thing" and worry about the ramifications of putting Demo through it later. I have no idea/context/etc for most of Demo's extended family members you see in the emoticons next to the post except for Iris, Pily, and Calleoca. I know Uncle Broadsword is an infamous SMBX character in terms of gameplay but I have no idea what his role is in the story.

Will I let that stop me from making dumb levels? Not in the slightest! But while it's understandable for others to see Demo and not be able to separate her from the rest of the established mythos, I believe Demo is a far better protagonist for a wacky collab game than the plumber. Fairies and goopas are fun re-sprites of galoombas and koopas that mechanically work the same for level makers, and the potted plant Charlies from A2MT were fun and deserve another chance to shine. If someone needs the enemies to look like turtles/football men/etc for their level to work, let them make the sprite replacements when you get to that. Concerned about the game's story turning into more Demo Lore? Just make it entirely self-contained, to the point that it fits no matter where you put it on the timeline.
Depending on the time frame of this project, I'm aiming to set aside time to learn how to port music and format samples since that's my forte back in GBAland, but that's a stretch goal. For now, I just wanna do a level or two.
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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by KobaBeach »

TiKi wrote: 4 months ago Not quoting because I don't think you want a ping right now, huh.
shit son i was just looking at red earth sprites and playing wild arms 3

I was actually just worried you'd go in one of your spiels about Nintendo which yeah, Nintendo sucks, I know. Sorry for blowing up at you. But the big thing here is that. Due to this being a SMW hack I feel like a desire to have vanilla aesthetics as well is a thing people sign up for rather than 100% original aesthetics like in SMBX. Of course there is also the feeling that

Demo is in, as well as the A2MT critters, as for other more minute stuff and controlling people's graphics in levels, I'm not doing that. I don't want to make the game 100% free of Mario because that's dumb and not what people signed up for. That is to say as for stuff like bosses, they'll probably not be Mario or Koopalings if we're going ahead with post-release bosses.

I've thought about the final boss being

Justice from Guilty Gear, closest thing to Julius in terms of games raocow likes imo. Need to study her moveset for attack ideas

. Also thought about an encounter based on the final bosses of

Silhouette Mirage

,

Clod/Armageddon, Corrupted Zohar, Megido and Geluve

. I'll have to make some large cuts on

both Corrupted Zohars

though.
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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by TiKi »

KobaBeach wrote: 4 months ago
TiKi wrote: 4 months ago Not quoting because I don't think you want a ping right now, huh.
I was actually just worried you'd go in one of your spiels about Nintendo which yeah, Nintendo sucks, I know. Sorry for blowing up at you. But the big thing here is that. Due to this being a SMW hack I feel like a desire to have vanilla aesthetics as well is a thing people sign up for rather than 100% original aesthetics like in SMBX. Of course there is also the feeling that
No problem. I can understand why you'd have suspected that so no harm no foul. But what's with the cut-off sentence at the end? Unless you meant that as a segue into the next paragraph and I'm just not getting your cues well
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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by KobaBeach »

Really close to getting another stage submitted. We just need to fix bugs, a custom disassembly of Yoshi keeps causing bugs on this build and I want to check out the problem. So far I've changed it to the vanilla version.
TiKi wrote: 4 months ago No problem. I can understand why you'd have suspected that so no harm no foul. But what's with the cut-off sentence at the end? Unless you meant that as a segue into the next paragraph and I'm just not getting your cues well
sorry i forgot to finish it it was like 5 am

I'm not sure what I was gonna say anymore, probably that we don't really need to go 100% custom?
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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by KobaBeach »

level 1 has been added and also there's a problem with lunar helper that makes sprites that use extended bytes go batshit? either way i fixed that by just using pixi
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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by TiKi »

KobaBeach wrote: 4 months ago Really close to getting another stage submitted. We just need to fix bugs, a custom disassembly of Yoshi keeps causing bugs on this build and I want to check out the problem. So far I've changed it to the vanilla version.
TiKi wrote: 4 months ago No problem. I can understand why you'd have suspected that so no harm no foul. But what's with the cut-off sentence at the end? Unless you meant that as a segue into the next paragraph and I'm just not getting your cues well
sorry i forgot to finish it it was like 5 am

I'm not sure what I was gonna say anymore, probably that we don't really need to go 100% custom?
NP again. So I guess I should sit this one out?
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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by KobaBeach »

TiKi wrote: 4 months ago NP again. So I guess I should sit this one out?
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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by Crow »

i'm not any part of this at all but "And Another Thing" is an incredible romhack name and i'm sad it's being slept on
i've honestly never played a video game in my life
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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by KobaBeach »

Crow wrote: 4 months ago i'm not any part of this at all but "And Another Thing" is an incredible romhack name and i'm sad it's being slept on
i'm honestly just not naming it an asmt thing. the last three are all joke names.

heraga also suggested asmt2 but i forgot to put it and it kind of makes sense because im definitely going for a vision closer to an asmt sequel than an a2mt style thing.

i think a big pitfall of collabs is like they strive to be as high quality as possible instead of being like a romhack collage, and with that comes a lot of ambition that they can never reach.

i will say this, if we do a3mt i propose we treat a2mt like luigi's adventure 2. it's just in limbo and not really real
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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by Lord Ruby »

KobaBeach wrote: 4 months ago i'm honestly just not naming it an asmt thing.
>:(

aasmtt was not a joke suggestion. We could even change it to aaasmtt (And Another ASMT Thing) to sneakily include a 3 :3
a
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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by KobaBeach »

my favorite thing is that there is really an r type final 2&3 that were released (will be released in 3's case) after r type final which was meant to be the final mainline r type game

rtype final 2 was even a gag in an old irem april fools joke
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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by PSI Ninja »

Here are some ideas I have for custom bosses, as promised. Note that these are only prototypes, so don't be disappointed if they seem too basic for now. Animated GIFs under the spoilers.

Boss #1: (~20 seconds, ends at Timer = 374)
Image

Oh look, it's YCZ's Homing Thwomp! Nah, it's just a stand-in for the actual thing. The boss HP is given by the bonus star counter. I personally like bosses that you more actively fight against, so I thought it would be cool to have the player constantly be in fireball mode and you can chip away at its health. I think I still want the boss to be Thwomp-like, but can attack in all directions (including diagonal).
Boss #2: (~30 seconds, ends at Timer = 259)
Image

My cursed idea: It takes place in an arena where you're in constant cape flight, and you have to divebomb on top of the boss in order to hurt it. It's pretty hard to do, so I'm thinking of giving another mode of attack that's easier to execute (like thwacking with the cape), but the tradeoff is that it would do less damage. The Mega Mole is a stand-in for the boss sprite. I plan to make the actual boss fly and attack the player, too.
As you can see, I wanted to do something different than just jumping on the boss three times to kill it, or hitting it three times with throw blocks. Since you always need to be powered-up for these fights, I have to use an HP system. There are some HP meter systems on SMWC, but I heard they're difficult to install, and would require fiddling with the status bar. That could be problematic.

Thoughts/ideas/suggestions?
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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by Lord Ruby »

Those seem interesting! A boss idea has started forming in my head over the last few days, and it would also involve permanent cape with an HP system, so I'll echo wanting some nice version of that in the hack for bosses. I'll focus on making the level I've claimed first, but after we'll see whether I'll delve into learning SMW-specific ASM stuff myself or just suggest it to someone who already knows that stuff.
a
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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by Jolpengammler »

just make it "one more thing"
and have it be a crossover between columbo and asmt
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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by strongbadman »

KobaBeach wrote: 4 months ago my favorite thing is that there is really an r type final 2&3 that were released (will be released in 3's case) after r type final which was meant to be the final mainline r type game

rtype final 2 was even a gag in an old irem april fools joke
There's goijg to be a final 3? How did I miss that?
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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by KobaBeach »

PSI Ninja wrote: 4 months ago Here are some ideas I have for custom bosses, as promised. Note that these are only prototypes, so don't be disappointed if they seem too basic for now. Animated GIFs under the spoilers.
yoooo that's really cool nice job!!
Lord Ruby wrote: 4 months ago Those seem interesting! A boss idea has started forming in my head over the last few days, and it would also involve permanent cape with an HP system, so I'll echo wanting some nice version of that in the hack for bosses. I'll focus on making the level I've claimed first, but after we'll see whether I'll delve into learning SMW-specific ASM stuff myself or just suggest it to someone who already knows that stuff.
I'll see what I can do wrt healthbar, we might be able to use HammerBrother's? not sure
Jolpengammler wrote: 4 months ago just make it "one more thing"
and have it be a crossover between columbo and asmt
as a fan of columbo and murder she wrote. yes
strongbadman wrote: 4 months ago There's goijg to be a final 3? How did I miss that?
wikipedia says so at least, it's dlc?
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Re: A Third? Mario Thing (provisional name) - discussion thread

Post by TiKi »

KobaBeach wrote: 4 months agoi think a big pitfall of collabs is like they strive to be as high quality as possible instead of being like a romhack collage, and with that comes a lot of ambition that they can never reach.
i presume this means my talk of "immersion" is antithetical to what this hack is supposed to be?

Oh and for that matter I never asked this in these terms so sorry, but am I fired from trying to make at least the vanilla SMW graphics (not users' custom graphics) all Demoified or is that part of it still on the table
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