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Level testing and discussion

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KobaBeach
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by KobaBeach »

PSI Ninja wrote: 1 year ago My comments will mostly point out some conveyance issues, things players might find confusing, or stuff that may have been unintended by the author. I'm not planning to go full "level contest judge" and critique every single design decision, though there are a few things that seem unfair or too difficult compared to the rest of the game. Generally speaking, I'm against modifying levels too much to the point where they'll start to lose their identity. It'll take a few more days to organize my thoughts, though.
We have NO CHOICE but 2 stan

I also forgot to dig out the ASPE block for Big Brawler, fell asleep kinda by accident last afternoon, due to not sleeping at all at night.

Will do that right now while listening to the Zwei!! OST. Been rewatching raocow's Zwei!! LP because I'm in a "rao is bad at RPGs + MML1&2 and Okami" kinda mood, and it made me get back into the swing of things with my copy of the game itself. OG!Pneuma is one of my favorite tracks in any Falcom game now.

If Ishibashi was truly the one to make this track, we'll never know since he's passed away and Falcom is secretive little bitch cunt assholes, then I still contend he's one of the greats in terms of JDK. But I also think Singa is far from the sheer garbage man the mainstream Falcom fandom considers him to be, around 75% of the time and that he's just overworked by Falcom's stingy asses, so clearly I'm an idiot (I'm not).
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by KobaBeach »

Guess whose fucking shitty windows decided to make my sandbox romhacking folder read only :)

sigh

dont mind me just guzzling down some coffee like the pig i am and listening to davidvinc's ken doll ass to maintain my sanity
Big Brawler wrote:pingos
i think i found the block im trying to test it out
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by PSI Ninja »

I can't believe it's another base ROM update! We hit a milestone with this one:

Image

I got this message in Lunar Magic while trying to insert Daizo's level. When I expanded the ROM, it messed up the "Act as" for a ton of Map16 pages for some reason. Fun stuff. I'm pretty sure I fixed it all, but please be on the lookout in case I missed something and there's some weirdness with certain levels.

Also, I tried my best to document all the levels that have powerup filters at the beginning. "Soft-filtered" means that you aren't immediately filtered, but it still occurs near the start of the level.
  • 001 - baby catnips get tragic concussions (Mushroom, Flower, Cape, Reserve)
  • 005 - The Emerald Winston Bar and Restaurant (Flower, Cape, Reserve)
  • 009 - NO VEGETABLES, ONLY TREES (Mushroom, Flower, Cape, Reserve)
  • 010 - The Beginning of Spring (Flower, Cape)
  • 015 - Demo in thornbush scrumble (Flower, Cape)
  • 01C - DUCKMOUNTAIN (Mushroom, Flower, Cape, Reserve; all are soft-filtered)
  • 023 - The Feeling of a Freshman (Flower, Cape)
  • 110 - My Green Garden in Green Forest (Flower, Cape)
  • 112 - Good ol' days (Flower, Cape)
  • 117 - pREsent(ing) gifts Day (Mushroom, Flower, Cape, Reserve; all except Reserve are soft-filtered)
  • 119 - Jumpers Are All Winners (Flower, Cape)
  • 11A - PUNT RETURN (Flower, Cape, Reserve)
  • 11B - FIGHT THE RED SWITCH PALACE! (Flower, Cape)
  • 121 - SWITCH IS BLUE (Mushroom, Flower, Cape, Reserve; all are soft-filtered)
  • 126 - Switching Difficulties (Flower, Cape)
  • 127 - Greenhouse Gambling (Mushroom, Cape, Reserve; all except Reserve are soft-filtered)
  • 135 - An Infinite Dream (Flower, Cape)
  • 136 - Who put Touhou in my hack? (Flower, Cape)
  • 139 - Revenge of the Sushi (Mushroom, Flower, Cape, Reserve)
  • 13A - Use Of A Goal Posts (Mushroom, Flower, Cape, Reserve)
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by Daizo »

seems like a couple slight issues appeared in my level during transition (minor tbf)
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Midpoint block missing (was using the multi-midpoints). Speaking of that, I did forget this so oops
dw $0128,$8068 ; Level 0128
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Message should be 1 8x8 tile downwards.

One other thing, probably best to filter all powerups (and yoshi) prior to my stage.

That's it. Seems like everything else transferred fine :grin:
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by SAJewers »

PSI Ninja wrote: 1 year ago Also, I tried my best to document all the levels that have powerup filters at the beginning. "Soft-filtered" means that you aren't immediately filtered, but it still occurs near the start of the level.
  • 001 - baby catnips get tragic concussions (Mushroom, Flower, Cape, Reserve)
  • 005 - The Emerald Winston Bar and Restaurant (Flower, Cape, Reserve)
  • 009 - NO VEGETABLES, ONLY TREES (Mushroom, Flower, Cape, Reserve)
  • 010 - The Beginning of Spring (Flower, Cape)
  • 015 - Demo in thornbush scrumble (Flower, Cape)
  • 01C - DUCKMOUNTAIN (Mushroom, Flower, Cape, Reserve; all are soft-filtered)
  • 023 - The Feeling of a Freshman (Flower, Cape)
  • 110 - My Green Garden in Green Forest (Flower, Cape)
  • 112 - Good ol' days (Flower, Cape)
  • 117 - pREsent(ing) gifts Day (Mushroom, Flower, Cape, Reserve; all except Reserve are soft-filtered)
  • 119 - Jumpers Are All Winners (Flower, Cape)
  • 11A - PUNT RETURN (Flower, Cape, Reserve)
  • 11B - FIGHT THE RED SWITCH PALACE! (Flower, Cape)
  • 121 - SWITCH IS BLUE (Mushroom, Flower, Cape, Reserve; all are soft-filtered)
  • 126 - Switching Difficulties (Flower, Cape)
  • 127 - Greenhouse Gambling (Mushroom, Cape, Reserve; all except Reserve are soft-filtered)
  • 135 - An Infinite Dream (Flower, Cape)
  • 136 - Who put Touhou in my hack? (Flower, Cape)
  • 139 - Revenge of the Sushi (Mushroom, Flower, Cape, Reserve)
  • 13A - Use Of A Goal Posts (Mushroom, Flower, Cape, Reserve)
perfect. i'll try to get on this (as well as add intros for daizo's level, bathroom level, and idiom factory 2) later today
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KobaBeach
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by KobaBeach »

PSI Ninja wrote: 1 year ago We hit a milestone with this one:

Image

I got this message in Lunar Magic while trying to insert Daizo's level. When I expanded the ROM, it messed up the "Act as" for a ton of Map16 pages for some reason. Fun stuff. I'm pretty sure I fixed it all, but please be on the lookout in case I missed something and there's some weirdness with certain levels.
yo is this my fault
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by Scarfley »

PSI Ninja wrote: 1 year ago If you want proper corner tiles for your Switch Palaces, we can easily fix that.
PSI Ninja wrote: 1 year ago While I'm at it, would you like the Expanded Switch Palace graphics to replace the "O" Bonus Game blocks for consistency, or do you prefer it be kept as a stylistic thing? Same question for Nitrogen and Scarfley.
Having proper corner tiles and the expanded switch palace graphics would be cool. Thanks for the offer! :)
PSI Ninja wrote: 1 year ago Also, the Red and Green Switch Palaces could use custom messages after hitting the switch.
I can't think of a clever message right now. But Lord Ruby's suggestions are great so going with one of them would be fine.
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by Nitrogen »

I'll also take the proper corner tiles and extended graphics for the red switch palace.
I also came up with a quick and silly message when the switch is pressed.
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by KobaBeach »

Nitrogen wrote: 1 year ago I also came up with a quick and silly message when the switch is pressed.
I couldn't post before because
1) Talkhaus was down all night, rena was asleep, I'm sure, me and her, we share the same timezone
2) I took a nap around 10 AM until like 19:30 PM

But I added this, only I made "or maybe its the switch idk" lowercase and took out the period, it looked more aesthetically pleasing. Hope that's fine.
Scarfley wrote: 1 year ago I can't think of a clever message right now. But Lord Ruby's suggestions are great so going with one of them would be fine.
I added the tanasinn one, because I Am Fucking Biased and also I just love people using SMW's text for things it was not meant to do, like ASCII art
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by PSI Ninja »

Due to testing the No-Yoshi intros last week, I ended up playing through every single level in the hack, and took note of some level design/aesthetics issues that I encountered (some more serious than others). To be constructive, I offered suggestions where possible that may help fix some of them. I don't have a mandate or anything; I just thought that this feedback might be useful.

Level 003 - Demo in the Sky (No Diamonds)
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  • (Screenshot) The bottom clouds in the background don't look right (stray cloud pieces and missing tiles?).
  • Subjective, but I think it would look better if the horizontal BG scrolling wasn't set to "Constant".
  • Minor glitch: Getting hit by Bananasnake's projectiles cause Yoshi to run off faster than normal.
Level 010 - The Beginning of Spring
  • Same as Level 101: The Homing Love Frogs should probably have a different palette to visually distinguish from regular Love Frogs (or shoot a different projectile).
  • Minor glitch: Hitting Homing Love Frogs from underneath or with a cape or shell will cause them to fly upwards.
Level 01E - Aileron Moonbounce
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  • (Screenshot) Level 49: If Yoshi eats a blue shell and you fly over and into these enclosures, you will be softlocked if you lose the shell (and don't have a cape). The tops of these structures should be closed off so you can't fall in.
  • Level 4B: Yoshi's tongue has glitched graphics because of the Dry Bones. Should be easy to fix without banning Yoshi in this level.
Level 01F - PREHISTORIC DOOM CASTLE
  • This level should have the Retry System enabled, especially for the second half.
Level 020 - Silent Flower Forest
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  • (Screenshot) Level C8: The Layer 3 trees look odd. Is this how it's supposed to be? Seems like cutoff on the left side, too.
Level 101 - Spikes do hurt (sometimes)
  • Same as Level 10: The Homing Love Frogs should probably have a different palette to visually distinguish from regular Love Frogs (or shoot a different projectile).
  • Minor glitch: Hitting Homing Love Frogs from beneath or with a cape or shell will cause them to fly upwards.
Level 106 - Horse Adventure
Image Image
  • (Screenshot 1) Screen 04: It's a softlock if you Yoshi-jump over the screen and land down here. I'd close up the ceiling in Screens 02-04 with dirt tiles or invisible coin blocks.
  • (Screenshot 2) Screen 03: Unlikely to happen, but this is another softlock.
Level 10E - Aerial Airships
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  • Screen 08: There's no way for the player to know that they're supposed to delay grabbing this P-balloon. You won't make it to top if you grab it too soon, because it has a much shorter timer than usual. Instead, I'd keep the vanilla P-balloon, and add some custom blocks at the top of the Jolly Roger that remove the powerup (if the concern was that it would last too long).
Level 112 - Good ol' days
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  • Level 16E, Screen 0E: If you bring Yoshi down here, it's awkward to escape. Not actually a softlock, but you have to know to button mash spinjump while pressing against the purple pipe to leave.
  • Level A0: The high number of Grinders in this section cause SFX glitches (e.g., Demo's jumping sounds are cutoff, Venus' fireballs have the wrong sound).
Level 117 - pREsent(ing) gifts Day
  • The time limit of 100 seconds is too tight, even if you know what you're doing. I'd add at least 50 seconds to the timer; adding 100 seconds would be better. But honestly, I don't think the low time gimmick adds much to the level, anyway.
  • I'd suggest having an actual midpoint in Level 43. The gimmick in the second half will be unfamiliar to many players, and dying to it would otherwise mean having to replay the entire first half again. There aren't any powerups in this level, either.
Level 119 - Jumpers Are All Winners
  • There are lots of SFX issues in this level, especially in Level E0. Because there are so many Grinders, their noise cancels out Demo's jump SFX, shells hitting walls, spinjump stomping, etc. Worst of all, it can cause random loud screeches in the music.
  • The death music and goal music also sound off.
  • This is probably the hardest level in the entire hack. It should be rated a 5/5 in difficulty, not a 4.5/5, and I recommend it to be one of the last levels in the postgame.
Level 126 - Switching Difficulties
Image Image Image
  • (Screenshot 1) I'd get rid of this auto-message, since it's already contained in the first message box.
  • (Screenshot 2) We can replace these message boxes with the message box disassembly (custom sprite B8), so they don't weirdly disappear after you hit them. Also, I'd make the message box area have a few regular blocks underneath it (instead of having the entire row being ! blocks), so the player can safely discover the gimmick.
  • (Screenshot 3) This Grinder just flies at you at top speed without any warning. I'd put exclamation marks in coins to give the player a heads up. Same goes for the other super-fast Grinders in this level.
  • This level is too hard for a 3.5/5. The first half's not too bad, but the second half is brutal, and I feel it raises the difficulty up to a 4.5/5. This would be suitable for the final world.
Level 127 - Greenhouse Gambling
  • I kind of wish the pits in this level would just teleport you back to the nearest Secondary Entrance (especially Screens 13 and 1C). It's pretty punishing if you mess up towards the end.
Level 135 - An Infinite Dream
Image Image Image
  • Your ability to spinjump is taken away without warning. I understand why, but maybe there should be a "No Spinjump" sign in the intro of the level so it doesn't feel as arbitrary.
  • (Screenshot 1) Level 17B, Screen 08: Landing on one of the three shells here is not always guaranteed. Maybe 30% of the time I fall in between them to my death. I'd shorten that stretch of blocks a bit, to help reduce "dead" space.
  • (Screenshot 2) Level 17B, Screen 0D: You're softlocked here if you ride the platform down and wrap to the top of the screen as Small Demo. You can also get awkwardly crush-killed by the solid dirt tiles at the top if you screen wrap into them from the bottom. I'd try to shift that whole ceiling lower, and line the top with sawblades to make the deaths seem more "intuitive".
  • (Screenshot 3) Level 17B, Screen 12: If the player enters this door right away, there's no way to know that it would skip the midpoint. I'd either swap the placement of the midpoint and door, or put some kind of indication that there's a midpoint if you continue to the right.
  • This level is currently rated as a 3.5/5 in difficulty, but I think it's way harder than all of the other 3.5/5 levels. I argue that it should be a 5/5 instead. One of the hardest levels in the collab for sure, and it would be a good fit for the postgame.
I also tested out Yoshi compatibility for all of the levels that allow an outside Yoshi (see below spoilers). For some of the levels where you have to abandon Yoshi to proceed, I suggested ways you can avoid this.

Beatable from start to finish with outside Yoshi:
  • 003 - Demo in the Sky (No Diamonds)
  • 009 - NO VEGETABLES, ONLY TREES
  • 011 - Warning! It's a Red Radish Morning (normal and secret exits)
  • 012 - A Dream of Green Apples
  • 017 - matcha ampersand avocado
  • 01A - Love Frog Hangout Spot (normal exit)
  • 01B - BRAINY OR WORRIED?
  • 01E - Aileron Moonbounce (normal and secret exits)
  • 020 - Silent Flower Forest (normal and secret exits)
  • 022 - THE OBSTACLE
  • 024 - valley of wheat
  • 102 - Chrystal Caves (normal exit)
  • 106 - Horse Adventure
  • 107 - Doing Things the Hard Way
  • 10A - Lucifer's Lava Lamp
  • 10B - bad day at the garden (secret exit)
  • 10C - yeah! get down! ONE MORE TIME! (normal exit)
  • 10E - Aerial Airships (normal and secret exits)
  • 113 - Quirky Quarry
  • 114 - Moving Ahead at Great Lengths
  • 123 - Coasting Redwoods
  • 124 - Accordion Depths
  • 129 - Super Easy Going
  • 12D - watch out! bad word ahead
  • 134 - Sweet Paradise
Beatable from start to finish with outside Yoshi, but impractical:
  • 01C - DUCKMOUNTAIN (Getting past the P-balloon section with a Yoshi is very difficult.)
  • 109 - A Nighttime Hike Up the Mountain (Getting past the interior of the house needs a cape. Solution: add a Blue Goopa.)
  • 10B - bad day at the garden (normal exit) (Need to damage-boost Yoshi through the one-tile high gap in Screen 06.)
Not beatable from start to finish with outside Yoshi:
  • 001 - baby catnips get tragic concussions (Can't enter doors with Yoshi.)
  • 014 - Pipe Town, There (Can't enter the purple pipe with Yoshi in Screen 0F.)
  • 019 - Fishing Grounds (Can't make the jump out of the water with Yoshi in Screen 0B. Solution: add a Blue Goopa.)
  • 01A - Love Frog Hangout Spot (secret exit) (Can't manage the key while riding Yoshi.)
  • 102 - Chrystal Caves (secret exit) (Yoshi is hard-filtered with ASM in Level FE.)
  • 10C - yeah! get down! ONE MORE TIME! (secret exit) (Can't carry P-Switch through pipe and have Yoshi at the same time.)
  • 11F - A Warm Welcome (Can't climb vine with Yoshi in Screen 11. Solution: add a Blue Goopa.)
  • 120 - The Legend of the Captain Blackpowder (Can't climb vines with Yoshi in Screen 08. Solution: add a Blue Goopa.)
@Daizo, Nitrogen, and Scarfley: I'll try to make these fixes tomorrow if Koba didn't already get around to it.
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by Catabo »

Regarding "get down!", is it better from a game-design perspective to disallow Yoshi entirely since the secret exit isn't doable with him? I didn't want to make it a no-Yoshi level because it's actually pretty fun going through it for the normal exit with Yoshi. Do i have precedent in potentially requiring the player to abandon Yoshi for the secret exit (that Chocolate Island level in vanilla that expects you to boost off of him?)?

and does anyone care when half the levels disallow Yoshi already?
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KobaBeach
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by KobaBeach »

PSI Ninja wrote: 1 year ago Level 003 - Demo in the Sky (No Diamonds)
  • (Screenshot) The bottom clouds in the background don't look right (stray cloud pieces and missing tiles?).
  • Subjective, but I think it would look better if the horizontal BG scrolling wasn't set to "Constant".
  • Minor glitch: Getting hit by Bananasnake's projectiles cause Yoshi to run off faster than normal.
I think I copypasted directly from Roberto's rip but I'll compare it with the ingame version in Pokonyan.
Oh I never pay attention to horizontal scrolling, so do as you please.
Strange? Can that be fixed?
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by SAJewers »

PSI Ninja wrote: 1 year ago
Level 020 - Silent Flower Forest
Image
  • (Screenshot) Level C8: The Layer 3 trees look odd. Is this how it's supposed to be? Seems like cutoff on the left side, too.
Level 10E - Aerial Airships
Image
  • Screen 08: There's no way for the player to know that they're supposed to delay grabbing this P-balloon. You won't make it to top if you grab it too soon, because it has a much shorter timer than usual. Instead, I'd keep the vanilla P-balloon, and add some custom blocks at the top of the Jolly Roger that remove the powerup (if the concern was that it would last too long).
That's how the trees look, yes.

P-Balloon there's no other way to shorten the time without patches, and it can't be made longer; the current design is the only way for it to be done. Only thing that can happen is to move the block over to the right more.
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by Lord Ruby »

SAJewers wrote: 1 year ago
PSI Ninja wrote: 1 year ago
Level 020 - Silent Flower Forest
Image
  • (Screenshot) Level C8: The Layer 3 trees look odd. Is this how it's supposed to be? Seems like cutoff on the left side, too.
Level 10E - Aerial Airships
Image
  • Screen 08: There's no way for the player to know that they're supposed to delay grabbing this P-balloon. You won't make it to top if you grab it too soon, because it has a much shorter timer than usual. Instead, I'd keep the vanilla P-balloon, and add some custom blocks at the top of the Jolly Roger that remove the powerup (if the concern was that it would last too long).
That's how the trees look, yes.
You may want to change the palette so it fades toward the blue used in the background (or change the background blue) to make it look less jarring.
a
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by SAJewers »

Lord Ruby wrote: 1 year ago
SAJewers wrote: 1 year ago
PSI Ninja wrote: 1 year ago
Level 020 - Silent Flower Forest
Image
  • (Screenshot) Level C8: The Layer 3 trees look odd. Is this how it's supposed to be? Seems like cutoff on the left side, too.
Level 10E - Aerial Airships
Image
  • Screen 08: There's no way for the player to know that they're supposed to delay grabbing this P-balloon. You won't make it to top if you grab it too soon, because it has a much shorter timer than usual. Instead, I'd keep the vanilla P-balloon, and add some custom blocks at the top of the Jolly Roger that remove the powerup (if the concern was that it would last too long).
That's how the trees look, yes.
You may want to change the palette so it fades toward the blue used in the background (or change the background blue) to make it look less jarring.
Yeah, if someone wants to do both, feel free.

RE: other levels:
- Do agree with the homing love frogs; I think I've mentioned this one before
- 117 I've had zero issues myself with the timer; I think it's fine as-is
- 126 and 135 I don't think are that hard, should be 4/5 at worst imo
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by Jongseok »

PSI Ninja wrote: 1 year ago Level 112 - Good ol' days
I made this level long ago. Screen-scrolling pipe's policy was changed to allow players to take Yoshi so the unintentional spamming 'A' happens. Originally the green pipe is Yoshi-filter.
'Incorrect' venus sfx is intended. I chose that sound. It can be awkward sometimes I know.
I'd like not to touch level 135's difficulty and I admit level 126's difficulty should be 4. (not 4.5 'cause I think I did DM; Difficulty Management)
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by PSI Ninja »

Catabo wrote: 1 year ago Regarding "get down!", is it better from a game-design perspective to disallow Yoshi entirely since the secret exit isn't doable with him? I didn't want to make it a no-Yoshi level because it's actually pretty fun going through it for the normal exit with Yoshi. Do i have precedent in potentially requiring the player to abandon Yoshi for the secret exit (that Chocolate Island level in vanilla that expects you to boost off of him?)?
I think it's okay if you have to abandon Yoshi to continue. There's no SMW level design rule saying that you must be able to keep Yoshi from start to end. I was just being thorough and systematic with my testing, and I'm not expecting all of the Yoshi incompatibilies to be addressed (though I will fix it in my level).
SAJewers wrote: 1 year ago P-Balloon there's no other way to shorten the time without patches, and it can't be made longer; the current design is the only way for it to be done. Only thing that can happen is to move the block over to the right more.
I just tested that section with the vanilla P-balloon's timer, and it seems fine? This would make grabbing it too early a non-issue, and I don't think it lasts for too long afterwards if you grab it later on. Though if you feel that the shorter P-balloon must be kept, then moving the ? block further to the right could probably help a little.
Jongseok wrote: 1 year ago I made this level long ago. Screen-scrolling pipe's policy was changed to allow players to take Yoshi so the unintentional spamming 'A' happens. Originally the green pipe is Yoshi-filter.
'Incorrect' venus sfx is intended. I chose that sound. It can be awkward sometimes I know.
I'd like not to touch level 135's difficulty and I admit level 126's difficulty should be 4. (not 4.5 'cause I think I did DM; Difficulty Management)
I can add Yoshi kill blocks before that pipe in Level 112. Do you want me to replace those disappearing message boxes in Level 126, or do you like it the way it is currently? And I won't touch Level 135 except for fixing that softlock I mentioned. Ideally, there shouldn't be any chances to get softlocked in this game.
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by Jongseok »

PSI Ninja wrote: 1 year ago I can add Yoshi kill blocks before that pipe in Level 112. Do you want me to replace those disappearing message boxes in Level 126, or do you like it the way it is currently? And I won't touch Level 135 except for fixing that softlock I mentioned. Ideally, there shouldn't be any chances to get softlocked in this game.
In lv126, please remove the initial popping message and put the ordinary message sprite not to disappear. Put munchers in Lv135's softlock zone. That would be fine.
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SAJewers
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by SAJewers »

PSI Ninja wrote: 1 year ago
SAJewers wrote: 1 year ago P-Balloon there's no other way to shorten the time without patches, and it can't be made longer; the current design is the only way for it to be done. Only thing that can happen is to move the block over to the right more.
I just tested that section with the vanilla P-balloon's timer, and it seems fine? This would make grabbing it too early a non-issue, and I don't think it lasts for too long afterwards if you grab it later on. Though if you feel that the shorter P-balloon must be kept, then moving the ? block further to the right could probably help a little.
Vanilla balloon is too long. Having said that, it turns out there is another way to shorten the timer that i missed (oops), and it should be doable with uberasm, which should free up a sprite and block.
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Re: Level testing and discussion

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Just throwing this out there, but after noticing less than half of levels state on the sheet they support cat llama graphics, and looking a few levels, it seems like there's quite a few levels that claim they don't support them, when there's technically nothing at all that would prevent them from working in the level in theory without any graphical glitches.

Someone should probably go through and check to see which levels actually can't support cat llamas (basically any levels that use gfx 12 or 6, in sp3, are castles, or use exgfx there that overwrites the tongue and fireball tiles), and which levels unnecessarily have no catnip intros, because that 41.57% support rate is pitifully low.

(note there's also a glitch with cat llamas and podobos that would technically make them unsupported; however, there is a patch that can fix it that we can insert)
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Re: Level testing and discussion

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SAJewers wrote: 1 year ago Just throwing this out there, but after noticing less than half of levels state on the sheet they support cat llama graphics, and looking a few levels, it seems like there's quite a few levels that claim they don't support them, when there's technically nothing at all that would prevent them from working in the level in theory without any graphical glitches.
This also concerns me personally, but Catnip being excluded from levels where he would otherwise be technically supported seems to be more about author preference. I remember some authors stating that they don't want the player to bring in an outside Catnip, to prevent their levels from being cheesed. We would need to discuss this with those specific authors, but we should probably respect their preference at this late stage.

Even with the low support rate, we're still doing better than ASMT and A2MT, which counter break Yoshi on the overworld to begin with.
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Re: Level testing and discussion

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CAn confirm, in my level I wouldn't want to allow Yoshi
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Re: Level testing and discussion

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Looking at the sheet again, we still need 3 Rest Areas. Anyone want to claim one? Otherwise I guess I'll have to try and come up with 3 (wanna try and get this bit done)
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by EllenHouraisan »

I can do a rest area. Which levels are free?
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by PSI Ninja »

Going by the spreadsheet, I presume that Levels F, 18, 1D, and 12A are now up for grabs? I guess we can start off by freeing up the unnamed slots (Levels F and 1D).
SAJewers wrote: 1 year ago Looking at the sheet again, we still need 3 Rest Areas. Anyone want to claim one? Otherwise I guess I'll have to try and come up with 3 (wanna try and get this bit done)
Based on the discussions in the postgame thread, my Level 12E reservation will tentatively go into World 1 and be related to postgame access. Also, I would keep the following in mind for the final world's Rest Area:
Lord Ruby wrote: 1 year ago If we're accessing the postgame from a rest area, I'd vote for some kind of super cryptic puzzle, like one where the objective isn't clear and you have to interpret the hints to figure it out, but it's clear from the start that there's something weird going on there. An input combination is simpler, but I think that's kind of boring. Scattering hints across levels is a cool idea though, we could distribute the level hints in a hidden "library" rest area in the final world.
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