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Level testing and discussion

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SAJewers
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by SAJewers »

We do still have 12 level spots open, though I suspect some of those will have to be reserved for life farms and whatnot.

Anyway, If you're not in the discord, I took a stab at the intro level (C5), taking inspration from tangy's final level in the advent postgame collab:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... _short.bps

We still need the titlescreen level (C7), so if someone wants to claim that, feel free.
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by PSI Ninja »

SAJewers wrote: 2 weeks ago Anyway, If you're not in the discord, I took a stab at the intro level (C5), taking inspration from tangy's final level in the advent postgame collab:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... _short.bps
I played through both versions real quick (the long version was posted on the Discord). I like the idea and visuals, but I think the short version is still too long and difficult to be the intro stage. I'd keep the "flashbacks" shorter and more to the point, and make it so that the player can traverse the level with minimal danger. Maybe make Demo pass through the enemies as if she were noncorporeal, or make it like the ASMT credits where she cannot die at all.
SAJewers wrote: 2 weeks ago We still need the titlescreen level (C7), so if someone wants to claim that, feel free.
I can give the title screen level a try. I have a dumb idea for it that would be completely apropos of nothing. I wouldn't be able to start working on it until I return from vacation on the 16th, though.
KobaBeach wrote: 2 weeks ago I put them in my main SMW hacking folder to mess around with later and see what I can do with them without the pressure of deadlines and a nearly full sprite ID list. We have to figure out how the Pixi by level sprites thing works if we do this again.
It should be as simple as adding the "-pl" option in "Insert Sprite.bat", and the per-level sprites would need to be added as "Level_Number:Sprite_Number_B0_to_BF" in list.txt. I may have to request that we start doing this soon. One of my upcoming levels is going to use a bunch of custom sprites that wouldn't be used anywhere else, and we really are running low on open slots.
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by SAJewers »

PSI Ninja wrote: 2 weeks ago
SAJewers wrote: 2 weeks ago Anyway, If you're not in the discord, I took a stab at the intro level (C5), taking inspration from tangy's final level in the advent postgame collab:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... _short.bps
I played through both versions real quick (the long version was posted on the Discord). I like the idea and visuals, but I think the short version is still too long and difficult to be the intro stage. I'd keep the "flashbacks" shorter and more to the point, and make it so that the player can traverse the level with minimal danger. Maybe make Demo pass through the enemies as if she were noncorporeal, or make it like the ASMT credits where she cannot die at all.
Yeah, part of my thought was that I wanted to keep them as they were originally as much as possible with no editing if possible. Looking at it now, maybe I should just have them fade out part-way through. Taking no damage is an interesting thought though
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by KobaBeach »

PSI Ninja wrote: 2 weeks ago
KobaBeach wrote: 2 weeks ago I put them in my main SMW hacking folder to mess around with later and see what I can do with them without the pressure of deadlines and a nearly full sprite ID list. We have to figure out how the Pixi by level sprites thing works if we do this again.
It should be as simple as adding the "-pl" option in "Insert Sprite.bat", and the per-level sprites would need to be added as "Level_Number:Sprite_Number_B0_to_BF" in list.txt. I may have to request that we start doing this soon. One of my upcoming levels is going to use a bunch of custom sprites that wouldn't be used anywhere else, and we really are running low on open slots.
Consider it granted.

fucking.


Goddamn

I typed a bunch of shit but I accidentally input shit on google without changing the tab so. I'm gonna try to cut back on the slots today, by editing levels and moving What's Possible to per-level stuff. But Also, I might actually try finishing at least one of the levels, considering this? But if someone wants to cut ahead, I don't mind? I also don't care if they use the Serpentina port, it'll make it less ~unique~ but it's kind of bad and also I'm anti-capitalist??

I also found a Silver Will from Trails in the Sky FC MIDI that, well... It sounds? The Taisen 4 from Puyo Fever MIDI I have on my hard drive is somewhat better, so I'll try to crap out two quick ports with Some BRR Instrument Set over the next few months? The midis are both from VGMusic, and I'm hardly the type of person who would be able to transcribe by ear, at least right now. I could make em unsampled for 2009 jank but I'm better than that.

I don't have any proper musical knowledge though, I just understood MML incredibly easily :) I've been in Computer Science in high school for like almost three years before having a stress breakdown right at the end of 12th grade, I'm almost one of those "coffee to code" basic bitches, I'm just learning how to draw too.

I wanted to mess around with hex editors and debuggers to study some SNES games but it's perfectly fine. I was just really into googling Japanese "binary hacking" (large scale hex editing) wikis. I don't have too much of an idea how people can just ASM through hex editors but like, Sterling seems to be very good for handling data? I should explore and see if HxD or WindHex have struct files to help me keep track of stuff when I'm not just dumping code into an asm file. Shex probably doesn't.

I'm gonna add the latest version of Lunar Helper and Monitor to the baserom so adding in variables is easier for my own purposes, but I'll add it to the batch files as well for all you Unwashed Heathens who don't realize the glory of build files

Here's an extremely attractive old man for your troubles
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by SAJewers »

SAJewers wrote: 2 weeks ago
PSI Ninja wrote: 2 weeks ago
SAJewers wrote: 2 weeks ago Anyway, If you're not in the discord, I took a stab at the intro level (C5), taking inspration from tangy's final level in the advent postgame collab:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... _short.bps
I played through both versions real quick (the long version was posted on the Discord). I like the idea and visuals, but I think the short version is still too long and difficult to be the intro stage. I'd keep the "flashbacks" shorter and more to the point, and make it so that the player can traverse the level with minimal danger. Maybe make Demo pass through the enemies as if she were noncorporeal, or make it like the ASMT credits where she cannot die at all.
Yeah, part of my thought was that I wanted to keep them as they were originally as much as possible with no editing if possible. Looking at it now, maybe I should just have them fade out part-way through. Taking no damage is an interesting thought though
ok, take 3: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... _take3.bps

each section is now 4 screens long with a fog effect at the end, plus uberASM to make sure you're never small ever during the thing (if we still think pit assistance is needed, I guess I can line the bottom with invisible boost blocks)
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by KobaBeach »

SAJewers wrote: 2 weeks ago ok, take 3: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... _take3.bps

each section is now 4 screens long with a fog effect at the end, plus uberASM to make sure you're never small ever during the thing (if we still think pit assistance is needed, I guess I can line the bottom with invisible boost blocks)
Thinking about it I think what A2MT did was boost blocks, replacing some tiles with "re-textured" breakaway tiles and put a whole levelASM so Demo always defeated an enemy when touching one instead of ever recieving damage, I think that can be done by just bringing up the contact routine and always defaulting to the defeated option. Or they might have lied to it and said there's no contact ever making Demo just walk through them, I forget how they did the intro specificially.

The levelASM may have also added infinite HP to the Charlies? That'll require doing a small loop on the sprite slots in X but it's not too hard or taxing if you know what you're doing, we just have to keep the SA-1 chip patch's added slots in mind so it works properly. It's a simple levelASM to code, but I can help if anyone is like utterly confused, which, is perfectly fine. Machine code and Assembly code are kinda nightmare for normies, I just understand it this well because it all just clicks to me numerous times.

The little stint in CS and Python 2 (i did LPTHW before the dude behind it was called out for straight up lying about Python 3's quality to people) before I dropped out may have helped.
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by KobaBeach »

Too lazy to log into Discord outside of my iPhone rn but I'm starting to catalog the custom sprites that are used in each level and sublevel. I also realized that I missed some uh, multi midways? So I'm gonna try to look through everything on Lunar Magic and see if I can fix them later once I'm done getting all the sprites organized. I'm too lazy to test the whole game ( ;Д;)
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I'll make sure to not do the Kaizo Baserom approach again for an eventual AAT2 (Yet Another Thing?). I really wanna do another one in two years after we're done, I wanna say? I've had so much fun helping everyone get their stuff together.

Let's keep practicing with Lunar Magic, and inserting stuff with other tools! (^ω^)
Don't forget about the help file for LM! It's RPG Maker tier in terms of handiness, absolute recommend for people who are more used to SMBX along with the SMWC Tutorials forum (not just leod's thread, that one hasn't been updated in a while).
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by PSI Ninja »

SAJewers wrote: 2 weeks ago ok, take 3: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... _take3.bps

each section is now 4 screens long with a fog effect at the end, plus uberASM to make sure you're never small ever during the thing (if we still think pit assistance is needed, I guess I can line the bottom with invisible boost blocks)
It's much better now, though some of the sublevel transitions are a little glitchy. I don't know whether or not the wavy effect or the Layer 3 fog is causing that. Also, I think each section should fade more gradually into the solid white tiles. Right now, there's an abrupt cutoff where the white tiles begin, which doesn't look great.
KobaBeach wrote: 2 weeks ago Too lazy to log into Discord outside of my iPhone rn but I'm starting to catalog the custom sprites that are used in each level and sublevel. I also realized that I missed some uh, multi midways? So I'm gonna try to look through everything on Lunar Magic and see if I can fix them later once I'm done getting all the sprites organized. I'm too lazy to test the whole game ( ;Д;)
"SWITCH IS BLUE" (Level 121) also has custom sprites that are specific to that level, but they may need to stay on the global sprite list. This is because back when I was coding the ASM, I couldn't find a way to properly spawn per-level custom sprites whenever the Baba Blocks (which are reskinned SMB2 Mushroom Blocks) are picked up.

Additionally, I was informed on the Discord that some of my levels in the base ROM are broken ("SWITCH IS BLUE" and "Life Goes On"). Something happened between the November 18th and December 14th updates that caused "SWITCH IS BLUE" to softlock after the level loads, and I can't figure out what. I know that the FreeRAM for the new Free Vertical Scroll flag and the Baba Block check flag ($140B|!addr) conflict, but when I tried to rewire these addresses, it wasn't enough to fix the softlock. And since we're not using the Multi Midway blocks anymore, the second midpoint for "Life Goes On" no longer works. I would need to figure out how to make this gimmick compatible with the new UberASM Retry System.

Finally, I noticed that "Thwompire State Building" was missing the Simple HP meter in the latest update (December 16th). I attached some fixes below that enable it to work with the new Retry System. Speaking of the Retry System, it appears to have some limitations. I wanted to make it so that retrying a section causes the player to respawn at the start of that same section, but if you choose to exit, you instead start from either the beginning of the level or the midpoint tape (if it was crossed). Right now, if you exit and reenter the level, you will start right at the section you left off from. Not a huge deal, though. Having the Retry System is more important for this level, but it would be nice to have the player start off in a safer area.

Fixes: https://psininja.talkhaus.com/smw/AAT_2 ... evel_6.zip
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Re: Level testing and discussion

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PSI Ninja wrote: 1 week ago Finally, I noticed that "Thwompire State Building" was missing the Simple HP meter in the latest update (December 16th). I attached some fixes below that enable it to work with the new Retry System. Speaking of the Retry System, it appears to have some limitations. I wanted to make it so that retrying a section causes the player to respawn at the start of that same section, but if you choose to exit, you instead start from either the beginning of the level or the midpoint tape (if it was crossed). Right now, if you exit and reenter the level, you will start right at the section you left off from. Not a huge deal, though. Having the Retry System is more important for this level, but it would be nice to have the player start off in a safer area.
I'm a bit busy right now so I can't check how you implemented it, but, off the top of my head, a possible fix might be to use an address that gets reset on overworld load to detect if they've exited the level. Like, on level load: if OWReset=0 (set OWReset to 1, reset progress to start/midpoint, load start/midpoint) else (reload current room).
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by SAJewers »

PSI Ninja wrote: 1 week ago
SAJewers wrote: 2 weeks ago ok, take 3: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... _take3.bps

each section is now 4 screens long with a fog effect at the end, plus uberASM to make sure you're never small ever during the thing (if we still think pit assistance is needed, I guess I can line the bottom with invisible boost blocks)
It's much better now, though some of the sublevel transitions are a little glitchy. I don't know whether or not the wavy effect or the Layer 3 fog is causing that. Also, I think each section should fade more gradually into the solid white tiles. Right now, there's an abrupt cutoff where the white tiles begin, which doesn't look great.
Yeah I'm not sure how to fix that. If you have an idea, feel free
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by KobaBeach »

PSI Ninja wrote: 1 week ago "SWITCH IS BLUE" (Level 121) also has custom sprites that are specific to that level, but they may need to stay on the global sprite list. This is because back when I was coding the ASM, I couldn't find a way to properly spawn per-level custom sprites whenever the Baba Blocks (which are reskinned SMB2 Mushroom Blocks) are picked up.

Additionally, I was informed on the Discord that some of my levels in the base ROM are broken ("SWITCH IS BLUE" and "Life Goes On"). Something happened between the November 18th and December 14th updates that caused "SWITCH IS BLUE" to softlock after the level loads, and I can't figure out what. I know that the FreeRAM for the new Free Vertical Scroll flag and the Baba Block check flag ($140B|!addr) conflict, but when I tried to rewire these addresses, it wasn't enough to fix the softlock. And since we're not using the Multi Midway blocks anymore, the second midpoint for "Life Goes On" no longer works. I would need to figure out how to make this gimmick compatible with the new UberASM Retry System.

Finally, I noticed that "Thwompire State Building" was missing the Simple HP meter in the latest update (December 16th). I attached some fixes below that enable it to work with the new Retry System. Speaking of the Retry System, it appears to have some limitations. I wanted to make it so that retrying a section causes the player to respawn at the start of that same section, but if you choose to exit, you instead start from either the beginning of the level or the midpoint tape (if it was crossed). Right now, if you exit and reenter the level, you will start right at the section you left off from. Not a huge deal, though. Having the Retry System is more important for this level, but it would be nice to have the player start off in a safer area.
Thank you, I'll see if I can get an older revision of it on Git and compare both baseroms.
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Re: Level testing and discussion

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Throwing this out there as I'm going through some level, please remember to test your level with Yoshi. I've come across a few that need filters already today.

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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by PSI Ninja »

I have fixes for two of my levels. "Fishing Grounds" (Level 19): https://psininja.talkhaus.com/smw/AAT_2 ... vel_19.zip

Changelog:
  • Moved the first Dragon Coin closer to the Jumping Cheep Cheep.
  • Removed the spikes and moved the Rip Van Fish in screen 0D.
  • Moved the fifth Dragon Coin to Level 190, replacing the 3-Up.
And "Life Goes On" (Level 122): https://psininja.talkhaus.com/smw/AAT_2 ... el_122.zip

Changelog:
  • Modified DeathWarp.asm to make the player lose Yoshi when falling into lava or a pit.
  • Made the Furba gap only one tile wide.
  • Redesigned the end of Level 1D0 a bit (using a P-Switch in addition to a star).
  • Changed the layout in Level 1D6.
  • Prevented Demo's death tiles from overwriting the respawn tile at the second midpoint, avoiding a potential softlock.
  • Fixed some cutoff with Demo's head if Demo dies on top of a Demo block.
  • Enabled the Retry System prompt for when the player presses Select.
  • Changed Message 123-2 slightly.
For Level 1D0 in "Life Goes On", make sure to copy palette row 8 to row 7 to get the right colors for the Demo blocks. Because in the latest base ROM, she looks ill:

Image
SAJewers wrote: 1 week ago Throwing this out there as I'm going through some level, please remember to test your level with Yoshi. I've come across a few that need filters already today.

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Yes, that level (which is coincidentally, "Life Goes On") really should have a No Yoshi filter. I thought about allowing the player to keep Yoshi (and it's designed so that it's possible), but I doubt it's a natural thing that the player would want to do in this level. And besides, there are too many sprite graphics conflicts with Yoshi's tongue (e.g., the little birds and Dry Bones). Another issue is that the music doesn't properly reset after getting the star (which was also reported for other levels in the Discord). No idea how to fix this yet, but at least it's a problem that's not exclusive to my level.

In order to bring up the retry/exit prompt for "Life Goes On" by pressing Select, I had to void the warranty and make some edits to the Retry System UberASM. While testing this, I found a pretty major bug. If you get a Game Over in a sublevel with the Retry System, and load the save file again, you will go to the "TEST" level (or a garbage level) when you try to reenter the level:

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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by Lord Ruby »

PSI Ninja wrote: 1 week ago And "Life Goes On" (Level 122): https://psininja.talkhaus.com/smw/AAT_2 ... el_122.zip

Changelog:
  • Modified DeathWarp.asm to make the player lose Yoshi when falling into lava or a pit.
  • Made the Furba gap only one tile wide.
  • Redesigned the end of Level 1D0 a bit (using a P-Switch in addition to a star).
  • Changed the layout in Level 1D6.
  • Prevented Demo's death tiles from overwriting the respawn tile at the second midpoint, avoiding a potential softlock.
  • Fixed some cutoff with Demo's head if Demo dies on top of a Demo block.
  • Enabled the Retry System prompt for when the player presses Select.
  • Changed Message 123-2 slightly.
For Level 1D0 in "Life Goes On", make sure to copy palette row 8 to row 7 to get the right colors for the Demo blocks. Because in the latest base ROM, she looks ill:

Image
SAJewers wrote: 1 week ago Throwing this out there as I'm going through some level, please remember to test your level with Yoshi. I've come across a few that need filters already today.

Image
Yes, that level (which is coincidentally, "Life Goes On") really should have a No Yoshi filter. I thought about allowing the player to keep Yoshi (and it's designed so that it's possible), but I doubt it's a natural thing that the player would want to do in this level. And besides, there are too many sprite graphics conflicts with Yoshi's tongue (e.g., the little birds and Dry Bones). Another issue is that the music doesn't properly reset after getting the star (which was also reported for other levels in the Discord). No idea how to fix this yet, but at least it's a problem that's not exclusive to my level.

In order to bring up the retry/exit prompt for "Life Goes On" by pressing Select, I had to void the warranty and make some edits to the Retry System UberASM. While testing this, I found a pretty major bug. If you get a Game Over in a sublevel with the Retry System, and load the save file again, you will go to the "TEST" level (or a garbage level) when you try to reenter the level:

Image
Having recently watched some LP videos with levels using a retry system like that, those levels usually don't decrement your life counter upon death. That should circumvent the bug, unless there are other ways of triggering it as well. Also, in retrospect, levels with retry probably shouldn't decrement lives anyway, so I think I'll change that in my own code; I'll still increment the demo counter, though, of course.

Anyway, very curious bug. I've found contradictions in most of my hypotheses so far. Perhaps it stores current progress (sublevel? Secondary exit?) in a byte that gets used on the title screen, but otherwise goes unused? It notably does not seem to go to sublevel 000, a bonus game, so it doesn't seem to be a byte that just gets reset on title screen load. SA1 has plenty of bytes that are never used, though, so one could theoretically just change every reference to a new completely unused address to fix it. But the Retry System code is gargantuan and seemingly quite complex, as I recall, so that would be a tedious task.
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by KobaBeach »

Is it the one I applied or the one Lord Ruby made? I think I can set it to not decrement lives in the options?
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by SAJewers »

PSI Ninja wrote: 1 week ago
Additionally, I was informed on the Discord that some of my levels in the base ROM are broken ("SWITCH IS BLUE" and "Life Goes On"). Something happened between the November 18th and December 14th updates that caused "SWITCH IS BLUE" to softlock after the level loads, and I can't figure out what. I know that the FreeRAM for the new Free Vertical Scroll flag and the Baba Block check flag ($140B|!addr) conflict, but when I tried to rewire these addresses, it wasn't enough to fix the softlock. And since we're not using the Multi Midway blocks anymore, the second midpoint for "Life Goes On" no longer works. I would need to figure out how to make this gimmick compatible with the new UberASM Retry System.
Did some testing: If I remove 12 patches in config_project.txt, doesn't matter which ones it seems, Blue Switch works again
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by Lord Ruby »

That sounds very odd. The only thing I can think of is that some code is sensitive to where it's placed in the ROM, and introducing more patches puts it in another bank. Perhaps some routine forgets to set the bank?

Hm... There is one other thing though... I believe Lunar Helper doesn't always quit if one of the tools runs into an error, or maybe it was that it instructs the tools to be non-verbose. Regardless, the point is that applying the level code manually, after running Lunar Helper, might yield a clue, like a warning or error.
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by KobaBeach »

SAJewers wrote: 1 week ago Did some testing: If I remove 12 patches in config_project.txt, doesn't matter which ones it seems, Blue Switch works again
Lord Ruby wrote: 1 week ago That sounds very odd. The only thing I can think of is that some code is sensitive to where it's placed in the ROM, and introducing more patches puts it in another bank. Perhaps some routine forgets to set the bank?

Hm... There is one other thing though... I believe Lunar Helper doesn't always quit if one of the tools runs into an error, or maybe it was that it instructs the tools to be non-verbose. Regardless, the point is that applying the level code manually, after running Lunar Helper, might yield a clue, like a warning or error.
It does show errors, it just doesn't quit, because effectively it's a bunch of batches iirc. I'm gonna try to mess with it and see maybe in a hex editor if anything's fucked up, like the bank switching shit. I'm a bit tired despite being up since like 3 pm (it's 7:17 pm now, fell asleep around 9:30 pm last night) but I'll just put some Murder She Wrote or something in the background to help me keep focus.

Sorry for being so fucking lazy. I know none of you mind, but I still feel very bad!
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by KobaBeach »

i dont know if its me being shit but spikes do hurt was a nightmare
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by SAJewers »

I thought it was ok, bit annoying in spots though
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Big Brawler
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by Big Brawler »

Here is the level I did yesterday, this time inspired by one of the few postgame levels from ASMT I like, and probably didn't do enough justice lol

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KobaBeach
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by KobaBeach »

i dont think most of these are kanji but i dont care it feels like it adds to the joke

i'll try to fix the pause button in the background during insertion don't worry
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SAJewers
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by SAJewers »

I hope you're going for postgame difficulty there because that absolutely should be the 1st level of the postgame
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Big Brawler
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Re: Level testing and discussion

Post by Big Brawler »

SAJewers wrote: 1 day ago I hope you're going for postgame difficulty there because that absolutely should be the 1st level of the postgame
Not really, I believe the original ASMT got every contribuitor pick their spaces in the map or whatever but the original Kanji factory wasn't really postgame difficulty, this one isn't that hard either, and less because i changes so many setups to avoid frustration.
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