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So You Want to Run MaGL X3? - Stay Tuned for Voting

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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby Sturg » 1 month ago

I think a mixture of the two ideas you guys present would be a great option altogether.
  1. Have a sign-up period, how long this should be is tbd; like maybe a week after an announcement video?
  2. During the sign-up period, the host can consistently compile a list of entrants with their potential gimmickry. (I especially think this part is great, as it reduces the cluster-fuckiness of trying to keep track of everything for the host.
  3. Once the sign-up period is over, dedicate a single day to handing them all out. Give others leniency if they don't receive their gimmick that day.
  4. Start with a generous deadline for everyone, but have an X amount of entries as a secondary soft limit. After this amount has been reached, change the deadline via an announcement to a week from that announcement.
  5. Once the deadline is over, no late entries are to be accepted (although I feel there could be special exceptions to this rule).
  6. Levels that do not follow the gimmick are DQ'd (I'd like to hear other people's opinion about this)
I actually think this would work great ngl
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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby Ditocoaf » 1 month ago

I remember Horikawa doing a lot of work to encourage as many participants as possible for MaGLX2. There's a chance MaGLX 3 won't have as much of a problem with too many entries as we're expecting -- just working less hard to get entries might be enough.

The limited signup period is probably also a good idea on its own. I know I was far from the only one who last-minute decided to try to make something quick, and cutting out that wave would be a big deal.
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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby YelseyKing » 1 month ago

Ditocoaf wrote:The limited signup period is probably also a good idea on its own. I know I was far from the only one who last-minute decided to try to make something quick, and cutting out that wave would be a big deal.
I was actually going to suggest something like this, but figured I'd just be shot down, so I never actually said anything. While I understand the sign-ups never being closed until the submission period ended encouraged a lot of stages, it also encouraged a lot of very *lazy* or unfinished stages. Having the two time frames be separate might improve quality overall.
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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby Ignoritus » 1 month ago

Ditocoaf wrote:I remember Horikawa doing a lot of work to encourage as many participants as possible for MaGLX2. There's a chance MaGLX 3 won't have as much of a problem with too many entries as we're expecting -- just working less hard to get entries might be enough.
Yeah, I in large part blame the huge surge of entrants in MaGLX2 on the fact that Horikawa kind of actively encouraged everyone to submit something even when they were even moderately into it. It kind of led to a lot of zero effort, half-hearted levels that seemed to be thrown together just for the sake of a submission. I think it's better to just let people join naturally rather than pushing anyone.
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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby Zyglrox Odyssey » 1 month ago

I feel like you guys are forgetting this is a level design contest first and an LP second. All these ideas you're proposing and discussing here to try to make it a more reasonably-sized affair are effectively worsening the quality of entries at best and barring participation at worst.
I think we've all agreed by now that a hard entry limit is a bad idea.
A short submission period before the contest proper begins prevents anybody from being inspired in any capacity to enter once the contest is in motion. Seeing all your friends making things making you want to make a thing yourself after all? Too bad, you didn't already know you wanted in, gtfo
Moving the deadline forward is... what? I'm sorry but how are you going to have a contest with a deadline that can just kinda turn into 'a week from today' at literally any time? The only real difference between this and a hard entry limit is it's not quite as strict and awful, but it still ultimately forces peeps to rush their levels, be it to not get screwed over by suddenly having three weeks' less time to work on it or because they already suddenly have three weeks' less time to work on it.

I understand X2 was offputtingly large, but none of this is a reasonable way to deal with that. Try not pushing everyone and their mother to make a level like Horikawa did, DQ peeps who ignore the gimmick, but don't just fling deadlines at the entrants out of nowhere, that cannot end well.
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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby YelseyKing » 1 month ago

Zyglrox Odyssey wrote:I feel like you guys are forgetting this is a level design contest first and an LP second.
Maybe. But the fact remains that the LP is *the* pinnacle of the whole contest. For the last two MAGLX contests, no one even knew where they *placed* until raocow got to it in the LP. This is a contest, yes, but it's one for which was basically made to be LP'ed, and for which the LP is *heavily* tied into it. Acting like the LP is of no consequence and should not be considered at all in the discussion/planning phase is... dead wrong.

Moreover, if the LP *wasn't* important, there wouldn't be these absurdly long "post-game" segments with "surprise" levels and the showcasing of new SMBX features.
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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby Sturg » 1 month ago

Zyglrox Odyssey wrote:I feel like you guys are forgetting this is a level design contest first and an LP second.
Sure, but that doesn't mean that the LP doesn't directly affect the contest as well, maybe even more so. It was because of how big MaGLX2 was in the first place that these conversations are even happening. People are becoming exhausted from contest LPs, rules are being changed, proposals of limitations are being brought up. If raocow wasn't dedicated on showcasing it, then yeah sure.
All these ideas you're proposing and discussing here to try to make it a more reasonably-sized affair are effectively worsening the quality of entries at best and barring participation at worst.

A short submission period before the contest proper begins prevents anybody from being inspired in any capacity to enter once the contest is in motion. Seeing all your friends making things making you want to make a thing yourself after all? Too bad, you didn't already know you wanted in, gtfo
Moving the deadline forward is... what? I'm sorry but how are you going to have a contest with a deadline that can just kinda turn into 'a week from today' at literally any time? The only real difference between this and a hard entry limit is it's not quite as strict and awful, but it still ultimately forces peeps to rush their levels, be it to not get screwed over by suddenly having three weeks' less time to work on it or because they already suddenly have three weeks' less time to work on it.

What is preventing people from signing up regardless? They have no obligation to make a level if they signed up, nor should they have to be "inspired" prior to signing. Signing up is a preliminary process, and signing won't necessarily mean you'll participate anyways. Could you not also say that seeing all your friends sign-up for a contest will not inspire you to sign up as well? There is no personal harm in signing. With it, people should be encouraged/notified that regardless of how uncertain they are, they should sign-up.

As for the deadline, I don't find it to be a SUDDEN change. People can check the number of entries, or the host can provide an amount as an announcement. There are many ways to provide peeps with that sort of information that they get an idea of what's up. Not to mention, a large percentage of people would need to submit before that even happens, providing ample time for people to work on their stuff. Depending on how many people that sign up, we could say that 70% would need to submit before the secondary deadline kicks in. I wouldn't say the deadline would be pushed forward a week, but maybe 3-4 weeks or more. Even then, there's still a good chance that a majority will not submit early, maintaining that initial due date. While I'll admit that does ultimately rush people when the deadline starts, I feel there is clearly enough time (if not more) to create a level before that secondary date takes place. In essence, it's similar to just having a regular due date, but shortens it slightly if there are already 150+ entries (as an example).
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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby MECHDRAGON777 » 1 month ago

I really do not see the reason to limit people. I think people should still be able to sign up til he go along day. I agree with the sign up period, but preventing people from signing up afterward is not cool.

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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby sedron » 4 weeks ago

Hey I'm alive let's talk about a contest.

I understand the reasons behind the proposed limitations, but I'm not sure we can expect the contest to be as huge as the last one anyway for a few reasons:

1. Horikawa set out to make MaglX2 a spectacle. She advertised the hell out of it and specifically hounded down more people to get entries, regardless of quality. Whoever runs it this time around doesn't need to do that, nor do I think they should. That's not to say that MaglX2's gargantuan size wasn't interesting in its own right, but if we have the goal of not inducing burnout this time around, then reining in the efforts to get people to participate is fine.

2. I really wouldn't be surprised if the burnout from the last contest was still strong enough to turn some contestants off. I definitely don't expect every contestant from last time to return.

3. The postgame from last contest definitely contributed to that burnout, and that's a super easy thing to fix. I can personally attest that the postgame is where I really lost interest. I'm gonna assume we're not planning on demoing SMBX 3.0 at the end of the contest, which cuts down the postgame size considerably to begin with. Beyond that you just don't need to get so many guest star levels, if any. They're a neat touch, sure, but assuming you want this contest to be about the Talkhaus and SMBX communities, having guests that are anywhere from tangentially related to not at all related to our communities is an easy place to cut some levels.

I'd expect to still get a sizeable number of entrants, but unless you go out of your way to get a lot of people in we won't see the numbers we saw in MaglX2. That said, I don't think any cap on the number of participants is necessary. I'd really hate to see anyone put the time and effort into making a level (and I mean a real level, not a "I made this single room because I was asked to," level,) and have it not even get into the final product because of an arbitrary limit.

Of course, if we just let things happen naturally, as Ignoritus suggested, and it still blows up into an overwhelmingly large contest, we can always revisit it in the future. I really don't think it'll be necessary though.

As far as Sturg's suggestion goes, I think it's better than a hard cap for sure, but I'm still not convinced it's necessary. Having a regular deadline with no participation limit is nice and easy to understand, also. Generally the less possible confusion the better. In regards to disqualifying levels that don't follow the gimmick, I think that really depends on what gimmick is chosen. I do want to limit levels getting in that were not made for the contest, but without knowing what the gimmick is yet I can't say for sure.

ALSO I don't want to run the contest because reasons but whenever judge choosin' time comes around I'll be interested in applying for that.
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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby Sebby19 » 4 weeks ago

ztarwuff wrote:As far as limiting entrants are concerned, there is probably a better way to do it.
  • Have a sign up period, just for signing up to the competition. No one is to start on his or her level until the sign up period ends.
  • When the sign up period ends, don't allow any more contestants to enter.
  • Get all contestants to start their level making on a certain date, by releasing the gimmick criteria to all contestants on the same date. Failing this, send his or her gimmick criteria and give him or her X weeks from the sent date to complete the level.
  • Do not accept any late level entries.
  • Disqualify any entrant who ignores the contest gimmick.
  • If a contestant is disqualified, don't judge it, and don't even present his or her level.
  • Make these rules very clear from the outset.
This is exactly my plan. Though reading through the last few posts, I'll allow late signups after the official distribution of the gimmick, though there will be a big 'DON'T EXPECT TO WIN' disclaimer, since they will have less time to make their level.

As I mentioned before, I'll have a limit to the LP episode (Top 100, 150, or 200), and the level that don't make be in a list, also found in that episode. And then a 2nd episode will be released later with those same levels, now playable.
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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby Sturg » 4 weeks ago

One thing I'd like to do if I were host were to hold public votes on certain questions regarding the contest. I felt that in previous MaGLXs, the public didn't really have much of a say in the matter. I think think having people voting on topics like this would be helpful in finding a good method that pleases a majority.
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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby ano0maly » 4 weeks ago

I agree with Zyglrox Odyssey that MAGL X3 should be first and foremost a talkhaus/multi-community contest rather than a let's play, but I don't agree with his points that follow.
Zyglrox Odyssey wrote: A short submission period before the contest proper begins prevents anybody from being inspired in any capacity to enter once the contest is in motion. Seeing all your friends making things making you want to make a thing yourself after all? Too bad, you didn't already know you wanted in, gtfo
The submission phase doesn't have to start after the signups end. Just having a separate signups deadline before the submissions deadline would be good, provided that the contest format requires the host to respond to the signups (such as handing out level names). It provides the host enough time to give instructions to even the last minute entrants, and those entrants enough time to make something. Although, I do kind of like ztarwuff's idea of waiting until signups are over before releasing the gimmicks, since the host has time to prepare them and also doesn't need to be available 24/7 responding to new signups.

The "too bad, it's past deadline" reasoning doesn't convince me. That's what a deadline does, and if you weren't inspired enough to bother signing up until the signups close, that's not the fault of the contest. And the above benefits of having two separate deadlines outweigh such a sentiment.
Moving the deadline forward is... what? I'm sorry but how are you going to have a contest with a deadline that can just kinda turn into 'a week from today' at literally any time? The only real difference between this and a hard entry limit is it's not quite as strict and awful, but it still ultimately forces peeps to rush their levels, be it to not get screwed over by suddenly having three weeks' less time to work on it or because they already suddenly have three weeks' less time to work on it.
To put in a formula, it's basically "150 entries + 1 week, or 2 months, whichever is sooner". I want to emphasize that "150 entries + 1 week" is primary and "2 months" secondary. You're not moving the secondary deadline forward; it would be made clear that the real cutoff is a week after enough entries are submitted. The secondary is only there so that you don't wait two years to meet a quota of 150 levels you don't need to meet.

I did say it as a maybe since this idea might not be necessary, but if we do have a limit on submissions, I think it's better for a soft cap to trigger the deadline and signal a final submissions period than to end submissions completely after a hard limit.
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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby Zyglrox Odyssey » 4 weeks ago

whoops i said a lot of words here's a spoiler
YelseyKing wrote:
Maybe. But the fact remains that the LP is *the* pinnacle of the whole contest. For the last two MAGLX contests, no one even knew where they *placed* until raocow got to it in the LP. This is a contest, yes, but it's one for which was basically made to be LP'ed, and for which the LP is *heavily* tied into it. Acting like the LP is of no consequence and should not be considered at all in the discussion/planning phase is... dead wrong.

Moreover, if the LP *wasn't* important, there wouldn't be these absurdly long "post-game" segments with "surprise" levels and the showcasing of new SMBX features.
Sturg wrote:
Zyglrox Odyssey wrote:I feel like you guys are forgetting this is a level design contest first and an LP second.
Sure, but that doesn't mean that the LP doesn't directly affect the contest as well, maybe even more so. It was because of how big MaGLX2 was in the first place that these conversations are even happening. People are becoming exhausted from contest LPs, rules are being changed, proposals of limitations are being brought up. If raocow wasn't dedicated on showcasing it, then yeah sure.
I'm not saying the LP isn't important, but I don't believe doing something that detracts from the actual contest in the name of making the LP a less ridiculous size is a reasonable course of action, and I believe that's what these proposals are doing.
What is preventing people from signing up regardless? They have no obligation to make a level if they signed up, nor should they have to be "inspired" prior to signing. Signing up is a preliminary process, and signing won't necessarily mean you'll participate anyways. Could you not also say that seeing all your friends sign-up for a contest will not inspire you to sign up as well? There is no personal harm in signing. With it, people should be encouraged/notified that regardless of how uncertain they are, they should sign-up.
There's a pretty huge difference between everybody being all 'yo i signed up for magl x3' and everybody actively working on and talking about level design and stuff over time in terms of inspiration. And just saying 'oh everybody can just sign up regardless of how uncertain they are' assumes that everybody who might want to enter knows they might want to enter - that's not necessarily true, peeps' minds can change and we shouldn't lock people out for not knowing they'd eventually come to want in.
ano0maly wrote:The submission phase doesn't have to start after the signups end. Just having a separate signups deadline before the submissions deadline would be good, provided that the contest format requires the host to respond to the signups (such as handing out level names). It provides the host enough time to give instructions to even the last minute entrants, and those entrants enough time to make something. Although, I do kind of like ztarwuff's idea of waiting until signups are over before releasing the gimmicks, since the host has time to prepare them and also doesn't need to be available 24/7 responding to new signups.
Having the entry deadline come some time into the submission period is admittedly less objectionable, but at the same time I'm entirely cognizant of the fact that that's because it serves less of a purpose. Ending entries like a week or two before submissions close seems like a reasonable course of action, but would also likely barely do anything.
The "too bad, it's past deadline" reasoning doesn't convince me. That's what a deadline does, and if you weren't inspired enough to bother signing up until the signups close, that's not the fault of the contest. And the above benefits of having two separate deadlines outweigh such a sentiment.
Okay that's literally just a more eloquent way of saying 'nope too bad gtfo' still though? Again, it's admittedly less of an issue if the entry deadline's several weeks into the contest, but I don't understand why this is the mindset we want to take in organizing a contest.
As for the deadline, I don't find it to be a SUDDEN change. People can check the number of entries, or the host can provide an amount as an announcement. There are many ways to provide peeps with that sort of information that they get an idea of what's up. Not to mention, a large percentage of people would need to submit before that even happens, providing ample time for people to work on their stuff. Depending on how many people that sign up, we could say that 70% would need to submit before the secondary deadline kicks in. I wouldn't say the deadline would be pushed forward a week, but maybe 3-4 weeks or more. Even then, there's still a good chance that a majority will not submit early, maintaining that initial due date. While I'll admit that does ultimately rush people when the deadline starts, I feel there is clearly enough time (if not more) to create a level before that secondary date takes place. In essence, it's similar to just having a regular due date, but shortens it slightly if there are already 150+ entries (as an example).
If you're shortening your "regular" due date then it's nothing like a regular due date at all. You can't regard the further date as "primary" because the odds are it's not going to reach that date. A contest under that system is in effect a contest where the entrants don't know the due date. Nobody can really be certain how long it'll take to hit the cutoff, even if the host tries to keep them informed - anything can happen. So people are going to rush, and I don't think we want that.[/spoiler]

I'd like to again propose something:
sedron wrote:1. Horikawa set out to make MaglX2 a spectacle. She advertised the hell out of it and specifically hounded down more people to get entries, regardless of quality. Whoever runs it this time around doesn't need to do that, nor do I think they should. That's not to say that MaglX2's gargantuan size wasn't interesting in its own right, but if we have the goal of not inducing burnout this time around, then reining in the efforts to get people to participate is fine.
Seriously. Seriously. I feel like we're all forgetting just how aggressively Horikawa advertized and recruited for X2. Bugging literally everyone she came across in Skypehaus to make something up until the last day, repeatedly PMing anybody who even so much as expressed interest with updates... She's a huge part of what made X2 so exceedingly large. Just not doing the same thing she did will likely make a much larger difference than you guys seem to believe, without affecting the management or participation in the contest in any way.
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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby Sturg » 4 weeks ago

Fine, I cede my point. If you really think that that factor alone is the primary reason for the size, then it's something to put a focus on.

Still, I find some of the ideas in this thread to be rather intriguing, specifically a sign-up phase. Perhaps not one that restricts entrants afterward, but one that gives a few days for the host to catch the initial rush of entrants.

It's perhaps better to keep things simple.
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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby Willhart » 4 weeks ago

I think there won't really be much reason to restrict submissions, if there is some way to limit which levels get to the "LP" episode. I was thinking of allowing the judges decide/vote on that while giving scores.
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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby Horikawa Otane » 4 weeks ago

I think a hard cap is kinda stupid. As per the rules, you gotta include all entries anyway (at least in some episode) - and some of the best entries were submitted on the final day of MaGL X. PLENTY of slap-dash joke levels were submitted the first days of the contest, and then a bunch in the last week. I think you substantially cut into the quality by putting a blind/stupid hard-cap on entrants. You'd cut out a decent chunk of the top 10 of MaGL X2 if you did that.

Instead, what I'd do, is promote the idea to people that there's going to be two episodes - one that will be LP'ed and a complete one. And if people want to be LP'ed, they need to have a certain minimum degree of quality. That way, you dissuade people from just entering to see raocow LP their joke level - while also encouraging people to make the best level possible.

Combine that with less enthusiastic promotion, a less ambitious postgame, and a lower-key showrunner, and you've got potentially a much more manageably sized contest.
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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby ano0maly » 4 weeks ago

Zyglrox Odyssey wrote:I'm not saying the LP isn't important, but I don't believe doing something that detracts from the actual contest in the name of making the LP a less ridiculous size is a reasonable course of action, and I believe that's what these proposals are doing.
I don't think the impression here was that these proposals were solely for the sake of the let's play. Keeping the contest in a manageable size, with measures such as a good choice of due dates, is a healthy choice for the people organizing the contest itself and can rein in the competition from getting out of control. This doesn't have to be the "ultimate contest" that will never be surpassed, and that mentality is what led to MAGLX2 becoming too big.
Having the entry deadline come some time into the submission period is admittedly less objectionable, but at the same time I'm entirely cognizant of the fact that that's because it serves less of a purpose. Ending entries like a week or two before submissions close seems like a reasonable course of action, but would also likely barely do anything.
The practical benefit to both the host and the contestants is that it would avoid the pitfall of a bunch of people signing up the last day of submission and either impatiently waiting during their precious last few hours of time for the host to respond (which would also pin down the host for that final chunk of time in order to be ready for those signups) or making a last-ditch one screen submission that has nothing to do with the gimmick. If anything that pitfall would be what causes an influx of those rushed, incomplete submissions. All this sounds reminiscient of how the end of MAGLX2 submissions went.

If you have separate deadlines for signups and submissions, by the time signups conclude, everyone participating has at least the necessary instructions and some time to make something of substance.
Okay that's literally just a more eloquent way of saying 'nope too bad gtfo' still though? Again, it's admittedly less of an issue if the entry deadline's several weeks into the contest, but I don't understand why this is the mindset we want to take in organizing a contest.
Because this isn't what I consider to be important. I find your argument to be a weak one when weighed against the logistical advantages of the simple idea of having two deadlines.

Deadlines exist so that proceedings of an event can move on, such as the premise of this very thread. It's unfair to characterize the deadlines in that manner and blame the event for enforcing them.
Horikawa Otane wrote:Instead, what I'd do, is promote the idea to people that there's going to be two episodes - one that will be LP'ed and a complete one. And if people want to be LP'ed, they need to have a certain minimum degree of quality. That way, you dissuade people from just entering to see raocow LP their joke level - while also encouraging people to make the best level possible.
The thing is that 1) you required the host to make at least one episode containing all entries and 2) raocow is requiring himself to LP that episode. That leaves implementing measures to help rein in the number of entries and entrants as our only option, and I don't understand why Zyglrox thinks all of those measures are bad ideas.
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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby ztarwuff » 4 weeks ago

I think you're all reading far too much into my suggestions. The reason I made those suggestions was because I thought prior discussions were suggesting hard caps that seemed arbitrary.

Limiting the contestant to the first X number who sign up forces a rush of sign-ups, and unfairly discriminates against people who just didn't get the announcement in time.

Limiting the contestants to the people who sign up in a certain time period can only discriminate unfairly if not enough time is given. How long does it need to be? Is a month alright? Two months? That is up to the contest runner to decide. Yes, it would be unfair if it was just a week, but my suggestion can be tailored accordingly to a contest runner's tastes.

Should it be a hard-cut off, as I suggested? I believe so, otherwise what's the point? But a contest runner could use his or her discretion. For example, if someone attempts to sign up a few days after the deadline, the contest runner could decide to accept that entrant. After all, what difference would a few days make?

And as others have pointed out, my suggestion really helps with logistics, and does its best to ensure all contestants have a reasonably similar amount of time to complete a level. Obviously, you can never account for those who have a huge catalogue of already made levels, and you can't do anything about entrants who leave things to the last minute, but at least you're doing something to address fairness.

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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby Willhart » 4 weeks ago

ano0maly wrote:
Horikawa Otane wrote:Instead, what I'd do, is promote the idea to people that there's going to be two episodes - one that will be LP'ed and a complete one. And if people want to be LP'ed, they need to have a certain minimum degree of quality. That way, you dissuade people from just entering to see raocow LP their joke level - while also encouraging people to make the best level possible.
The thing is that 1) you required the host to make at least one episode containing all entries and 2) raocow is requiring himself to LP that episode. That leaves implementing measures to help rein in the number of entries and entrants as our only option, and I don't understand why Zyglrox thinks all of those measures are bad ideas.
Who says we need two episodes? There could just be a section for all the levels that did not make it in, or a switch that blocks the level entrances that were deemed not good enough. First one would be good if we exclude the levels based on total score, but that would mean missing on some cool joke levels.
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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby Ditocoaf » 4 weeks ago

I definitely think that "not trying as hard as Horikawa did to encourage entries" is 90% of the (so-called) problem solved. She seemed genuinely concerned with making sure her contest would be fully engaged-with, but the end-result was definitely overstuffed. Just taking whatever comes in from each forum (and raocow's youtube blast) will reduce the results by some amount under actively contacting people and saying "hey you should make a level." Also, if "oversaturation" is a real thing, that's the sort of problem that will correct itself.

I'm only tentatively endorsing a limited application timeline because it's more fair (and less arbitrary) than straight-up limiting the number of level submissions -- some people seem to think the latter thing is necessary, but I think it's uncouth. If anyone applying as showrunner is proposing the latter, I'm hoping they convert to the former because of the situation I allude to in the first paragraph of this post.

But yeah, I disagree with Sturg and agree with Zygrlox in that I think the "too many applicants" problem will be fixed simply by having the showrunner be less ambitious than Horikawa, which is almost guaranteed. If we have fully unlimited contest entries, I honestly think that's fine and best.
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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby ano0maly » 4 weeks ago

Willhart wrote:
Who says we need two episodes? There could just be a section for all the levels that did not make it in, or a switch that blocks the level entrances that were deemed not good enough. First one would be good if we exclude the levels based on total score, but that would mean missing on some cool joke levels.
I think you misunderstood me.

Rule 4 says that there needs to be a version of the playable contest that has all submitted levels.

At the same time raocow says that he'll play the version with all submitted levels. Therefore, making a separate abridged "LP edition" of the contest as rule 4 suggested would not affect raocow. That was what I was getting at in my response.

So to not have an overly large LP, you need to have measures that deter the contest itself from becoming overly large. If there people here that do not like such measures, I suggest they go change raocow's mind.
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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby MoneyMan » 4 weeks ago

I'm also gonna come out as being anti-entrant limits, hard or soft. They lead to rushed entries, and in the case of the soft "cut the deadline short when x people submit", it isnt fair to people who arent in the position that they can revolve their life around a contest. Knowing a solid deadline is important, because then you can at least TRY to plan around it, but for people who cant check up on the status of the contest regularly, they get left in the dark until "welp we hit the limit, you got a week" at which point they may not be able to finish what they planned in conjunction with the goings on in their lives and either submit something rushed, or toss out their work.

The idea of an application period also isn't very good, I dont think, because it discriminates against people who just werent aware of the contest before it started for one reason or another. The ONLY way im at all supportive of any idea like this is if it's not a hard "you cant participate if you dont sign up beforehand" but a "you get a small scoring penalty for not doing so/you get a small bonus for doing so", but even that leads to the drift away from levels being scored and ranked on their own merit, so.

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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby ano0maly » 4 weeks ago

I don't get why having signups deadline is such a bad move. That's nothing new. It's just that the signups period coincided with the submissions period in the previous X contest, that's all. There are good reasons to space out at the deadlines, if not the time frames themselves as ztarwuff suggested. You don't want a last minute signup to also become a last minute submission similtaneously, if the contest neccesitates host to respond to entrants before they can make levels.
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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby Horikawa Otane » 4 weeks ago

I mean, you're required to have a complete episode of all levels, but you're not required to release it for raocow's LP. It has to be READY by the time you post results, but you can keep ahold of it and thereby force raocow to play your "LPer's choice" episode. Staggering the releases is fine. I just want to make sure the full contest exists and is playable at some point.
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Re: So You Want to Run MaGL X3? Applications due 03/19/2017 @11:59pm

Postby Sebby19 » 4 weeks ago

I was going to do I signup period myself, but this was actually for a very different reason than what all of you suggested. It's directly related too, and will impact the gimmick I'm planning.
Horikawa Otane wrote:I mean, you're required to have a complete episode of all levels, but you're not required to release it for raocow's LP. It has to be READY by the time you post results, but you can keep ahold of it and thereby force raocow to play your "LPer's choice" episode. Staggering the releases is fine. I just want to make sure the full contest exists and is playable at some point.
If things get too big again, I was hoping to connect the 2 episodes in the same fashion as MAGL X2, if that's okay.
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