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[15] if my heart were a bridge level

Half a jump is still a jump
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Ryrir
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[15] if my heart were a bridge level

Postby Ryrir » 1 year ago

So yeah, this the first draft of my level. It's a simple vanilla bridge level which should work for world two or three.
It's super janky and pretty straight forward, but then again I remember reading somewhere that this collab should be more in the spirit of VIP1-2, so I hope I'm fine
I realized just now that I didn't create it in the latest baserom (or any baserom at all really), I hope that doesn't cause too much trouble...

I'd add a screenshot but I don't know how to do that lol

To do list:

- Replace secret exit with moon/powerups since there are apparently already enough levels with two exits. Need to claim another secondary exit for this
- Find & insert fitting costum music for the level. I don't know how that works at all, so if anyone could point me in the right direction that would be nice...
- Verify that the level name isn't too long. I asked about that in the discussion thread and it should be fine, however I didn't account for the yoshi coin symbol and stuff. Also, is it "were" or "was" in this case?
- Adjust timer
- Sometimes certain sprites disappear for no reason (like the message box or the numbered platform or the hammer bro). I think this is because I'm nearing the max amount of sprites for the level, so I might have to use a sublevel or something
- Redesign screens 09 & 10-12 (I was thinking about adding line guide sections, but I have no idea how to add them to the level. Again, if anyone could point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it)

Sorry for the rushed post, finals start tomorrow and I wanted to get it out of the way :oops:
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[15] - if my heart were a bridge level.zip
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aterraformer
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Re: [15] if my heart were a bridge level

Postby aterraformer » 1 year ago

Thanks for posting so soon. This very well could be title screen level. Though it is more vertical oriented than what I wanted, this kinda has the "feel" I wanted with my perpetually unfinished 'Janked Up Mario Quality!'. You did address most of my issues, I did feel the secret was a tad too unclear. I know the arrow is there but the player actually backtracking with it is slim. I think the timing with the p-switch is pretty tight too, I feel knowledge is required to bypass some platforms and not get stuck at the Chuck. As you said, you would be fixing 10-12, these definitely need it the most. I was taking the upper path at first and fell into the spot below the blue switch block in 10, and was stuck. Don't do that. I stopped playing when the numbered platform didn't spawn on screen 10. Rest looks okay though. Unfortunately, I don't know how to help with the sprite issues, I have them myself. If you can, get in the discord. I'm sure someone could help out there.
raocow wrote:the plan is to wait for Jump to be released and then replacing the graphics without telling anyone involved with Jump.
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ft029
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Re: [15] if my heart were a bridge level

Postby ft029 » 11 months ago

This is the type of level that would tick off raocow and the talkhaus. The level is good all around except for the fact that vital sprites don't spawn 75% of the time. That one message box, and the important timed lift. I would just remove some sprites and make such areas more linear to avoid having tons of sprites in each direction of the spider web.

I also suggest making the timed lift section less cramped as the player doesn't know what to do at the jump. A more clear coin trail would be nice. I only had the timed lift spawn once so I can't really complete the level.

The rest of the level is okay, even if some jumps are a bit annoying.
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Ryrir
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Re: [15] if my heart were a bridge level

Postby Ryrir » 11 months ago

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

I finally sat down and finished this level. On my side of things, it's completed - but of course I'll change stuff around when new feedback comes in (:

Adding the second half to a new sublevel seems to have helped with the sprite memory issues. Both the timed platform and the message box spawn correctly for me now. Only thing that's still weird on my end is that sometimes certain coins won't spawn (I didn't even know that that could happen). Maybe it's because I have so many objects in the level? It doesn't worry me too much though, in the end coins aren't that essential or anything.

Only thing that's left to do is to find music which fits the level... If anyone has any suggestions, they're always welcome! Otherwise I thought I'd check out the latest baserom and see if any music that is already inserted appeals to me.

Edit: Some sprites don't seem to appear if you respawn at the midpoint, including the secret mushroom (which is weird because they do spawn 100% of the time when you play through the level normally). I'll look into this...

Edit 2: I forgot to delete the chuck in the p-switch section. I'm sorry, that will definitely be fixed in the next version
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[15] - if my heart were a bridge level v2.zip
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ft029
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Re: [15] if my heart were a bridge level

Postby ft029 » 11 months ago

(will be edited layer once I play)

Some coins don't appear because of collecting coins on the previous screen or hitting coin blocks on the previous screen that "correspond" in position.
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Re: [15] if my heart were a bridge level

Postby Ryrir » 6 months ago

I too watched aterra's vod and I definitely plan to do the responsible thing and fix this level in the near future

Looking at this, I think I need to do the following things:

- Fix sprite memory issues all around (mostly just remove unnecessary sprites I guess)
- Remove chuck from p-switch section
- Add throw blocks before shell ambush section
- Make pop-up mushrooms more obvious? Although that might just be atteraformer who didn't see them
- Finally add custom music. Question: Can I just reuse a track that is already in the baserom, given that the level which uses it is reasonably far away?

If anyone else has any suggestions please let me know!
I want the level to be as good as it can possibly be.

edit:

Looking at the level more closely, I decided to change some more things:

- Moved level entrance to the left to avoid cheap hit by goomba
- Made jump to p-switch less annoying
- Changed respawn point if you fail the red koopa jump (it's closer to the actual obstacle now)
- I can probably spare one secondary exit since I can use the midway entrance of A7 now?

It turns out the numbered platform could be fixed by placing it one tile to the right?? I'll definitely test it some more. Still working on a solution for the pop-out mushroom at the midpoint though
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aterraformer
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Re: [15] if my heart were a bridge level

Postby aterraformer » 6 months ago

Use which ever song you feel fits your level best. Looking forward to seeing this level working properly.
raocow wrote:the plan is to wait for Jump to be released and then replacing the graphics without telling anyone involved with Jump.
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Re: [15] if my heart were a bridge level

Postby Ryrir » 6 months ago

New version, I basically did everything I said in the previous post

Please ignore the D0 stuff in the IPS patch, I don't actually plan on submitting that

Still looking for good/fitting music, but I figured I should post this first since that probably won't happen before the holidays
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SAJewers
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Re: [15] if my heart were a bridge level

Postby SAJewers » 5 months ago

This definitely has the VIP/Janky feel to it. Do note there are a couple places where you glitch into a pipe and die.

As for music, I actually think the default works quite well. Maybe of the VLDC Remixes?

Alternatively, maybe ping Wohlstand and see if he'll give you a txt version of this thing he made for A2XT Ep2.
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Ryrir
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Re: [15] if my heart were a bridge level

Postby Ryrir » 5 months ago

ok the level should be somewhat better now (I hope)

version 4
SAJewers wrote:Do note there are a couple places where you glitch into a pipe and die.
I really don't know what you mean by that. Could you be more specific?
SAJewers wrote:As for music, I actually think the default works quite well. Maybe of the VLDC Remixes?

Alternatively, maybe ping Wohlstand and see if he'll give you a txt version of this thing he made for A2XT Ep2.
Thank you very much for your suggestions! I ultimately decided on Decisive Here We Go, but the songs you suggested would have worked just as well. I'm not sure what the next step is though, I claimed music slot 89 but do I have to insert it into the base myself?
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Re: [15] if my heart were a bridge level

Postby SAJewers » 5 months ago

Ryrir wrote:ok the level should be somewhat better now (I hope)

version 4
SAJewers wrote:Do note there are a couple places where you glitch into a pipe and die.
I really don't know what you mean by that. Could you be more specific?
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There are numerous spots like that where you can duck jump in there and kill yourself.
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Re: [15] if my heart were a bridge level

Postby ft029 » 5 months ago

I think that's a very minor issue as you can just duck jump out of those spaces. The real issue is how the level is quite boring.
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Re: [15] if my heart were a bridge level

Postby Ryrir » 5 months ago

ft029 wrote:The real issue is how the level is quite boring.
shots fired

I did cut out a lot of stuff though. Should be less boring now? I mean I guess I could cut even more, but I feel like it should be ok now

edit: could definitely do without screen 0C. Thoughts?
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Re: [15] if my heart were a bridge level

Postby ft029 » 5 months ago

Yeah, it is a lot less boring than the previous versions to the point where I think this level is acceptable. But, it could be better. I remember watching lolyoshi streaming your level and having trouble with the red parakoopa spot. Perhaps have them fly vertically instead of horizontally to make them easier to hop off. There's a few other questionable design decisions like the low ceiling right before you can jump to the ledge with the P-switch block.
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Re: [15] if my heart were a bridge level

Postby Ryrir » 5 months ago

ft029 wrote:the red parakoopa spot. Perhaps have them fly vertically instead of horizontally to make them easier to hop off.
In the newest version I've edited the exit point of the reset pipe to be a lot closer to the actual obstacle now, and I've covered up the entire hole with floor. You can't actually die at this obstacle anymore, and it takes about three seconds to reset. Should be ok now?
ft029 wrote:the low ceiling right before you can jump to the ledge with the P-switch block.
That was fixed in the latest version.
ft029 wrote:There's a few other questionable design decisions
Could you be more specific? I think my main problem right now is that I've been looking at the level for too long and I don't know what's good and what's bad anymore
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Wohlstand
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Re: [15] if my heart were a bridge level

Postby Wohlstand » 5 months ago

SAJewers, Everything related to my "Subway" melody I have it in public access at PGE's document storage:

http://wohlsoft.ru/docs/Music/SPC/Subway_spc.txt

Also MIDI:
Original (two variants with different instruments):
http://wohlsoft.ru/docs/Music/MIDI/Subway.mid
http://wohlsoft.ru/docs/Music/MIDI/Subway_2.mid

Optimized:
http://wohlsoft.ru/docs/Music/SPC/Subway_spc.mid

Also in this folder you can find another my (and by others) SPCs with text sources:
http://wohlsoft.ru/docs/Music/SPC/

P.S. Also lot of my collection, modded, and my own MIDI files are published here: https://yadi.sk/d/dy8O_1-ktcs9P (useful only in case you will optimize them yourself and then make the TXT. Anyway, I still keep in my mind the idea to make automatic optimizer MIDI2TXT to split up drums and polyphony and manage between different channels and remap instrument numbers, would be good, but just an idea)

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Re: [15] if my heart were a bridge level

Postby lolyoshi » 5 months ago

Ryrir wrote:
ft029 wrote:the red parakoopa spot. Perhaps have them fly vertically instead of horizontally to make them easier to hop off.
In the newest version I've edited the exit point of the reset pipe to be a lot closer to the actual obstacle now, and I've covered up the entire hole with floor. You can't actually die at this obstacle anymore, and it takes about three seconds to reset. Should be ok now?
ft029 wrote:the low ceiling right before you can jump to the ledge with the P-switch block.
That was fixed in the latest version.
ft029 wrote:There's a few other questionable design decisions
Could you be more specific? I think my main problem right now is that I've been looking at the level for too long and I don't know what's good and what's bad anymore
I have a playthrough of your level on my stream when I was playtesting stuff again. Here is the link for it (skip to 38:30). I might be a little rude (don't remember), so don't take it too personally. I'm still not a fan of the level has it is, generally in the way it is constructed, and that's it's just some uneventful zigzagging.

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Ryrir
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Re: [15] if my heart were a bridge level

Postby Ryrir » 5 months ago

Thanks for the link! Unfortunately you were playing a super ancient version (like version 1 or something). I don't know what happened there.

Almost all of the things you criticized have changed (the level is about half as long now). I can't really do much about the zigzaggy nature of it though, but now that it takes far less time to beat it shouldn't be as annoying anymore.
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Re: [15] if my heart were a bridge level

Postby ft029 » 5 months ago

oh lol I just realized we're all talking about different versions. I was talking about version 3.
I just played version 4, and it's fine. Small nitpicks: The invisible mushroom that pops out usually falls into the hole... I had to scroll the sprite off screen and back to get it. I spinjumped on the red parakoopa right before the midpoint, which made me sad. Also, after the midpoint, bouncing on the fish is difficult--perhaps put 3 fish there or something. It's near impossible to react to the cannon, so maybe move the position of the cannon so you fall on the falling platform. There's a part with two carrot platforms and a red parakoopa patrolling it, and it's boring because you have to wait for the carrots. There is a message box guarded by a chuck--perhaps provide a goomba that you can use to kill it.

It's a good level now. There's no secret exit, right?
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Re: [15] if my heart were a bridge level

Postby Ryrir » 4 months ago

Thank you very much for the feedback. I will upload an updated version soon (hopefully it'll be the last one).
ft029 wrote:There's no secret exit, right?
No, that was scrapped after version one because there was a post in the discussion thread saying that there are too many levels with secret exits already. It could be easily reinserted though, if it would be more convenient for the overworld or something.
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Ryrir
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Re: [15] if my heart were a bridge level

Postby Ryrir » 3 months ago

final version of the level, which addresses minor issues ft pointed out (mostly tweaked by using yellow switch blocks)

I didn't include an ips because there weren't a lot of changes, but if people want one I could provide it
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