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Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

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Dragon Fogel
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Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby Dragon Fogel » 2 years ago

This question is a little more complicated than world map or hub, because there are various ways a plot could be handled if we go that route. So I'm going to leave the discussion open for a bit before making an actual poll, just so we know what the options are.

Short version, though, is do you want the game to have a continuing plot of some kind. It probably won't be a very serious plot if we do take that approach. I'll give my own thoughts in a little bit.
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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby FFR » 2 years ago

I think having a silly plot is a cool idea, I vote for that

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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby Rednaxela » 2 years ago

My thought on this is, let's not try and force a plot, but if an idea for a silly 'ol plot comes to mind based on some subset of levels that we have on hand at any point, lets roll with it?
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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby Zyglrox Odyssey » 2 years ago

Personally I'm in favor of as little plot as possible, though I can't quite think of a reason why that doesn't essentially amount to "because I don't want a plot". The closest I can come up with at the moment is "it'd get in the way of the 'just a bunch of levels in a hub for funzies' setup" but that assumes we're even going that route to begin with.
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Dragon Fogel
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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby Dragon Fogel » 2 years ago

Rednaxela wrote:My thought on this is, let's not try and force a plot, but if an idea for a silly 'ol plot comes to mind based on some subset of levels that we have on hand at any point, lets roll with it?
For me, personally, I would be trying to connect seemingly unrelated levels in a silly way. That might sound like "forcing a plot", but it's really all in the execution. And I think I can do a pretty good job of it regardless of what the actual levels we're working with are.

That said, progression with a plot would be a bit awkward if we had a hub - if I make a level for World 6 and reference a World 1 level, how can we be sure the World 1 level was beaten? (Other than actually having specific levels required to progress, I guess, but we probably don't want to have too many of those.) Although, I guess this general idea applies whether we use a "main plot" or not, since there's nothing stopping us from referencing other levels even if we don't have an overarching plot.
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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby Pyro » 2 years ago

I still think raocow's plot is the best. I'd go with that if we choose a silly plot.
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Dragon Fogel
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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby Dragon Fogel » 2 years ago

That's more of a framing device than a plot per se, but yeah, we'll probably work it in with whatever else we do.
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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby CloudyCloud » 2 years ago

silly plot will do if there is a want of that. :)

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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby DinnerSonic » 2 years ago

I'm guessing if it goes with a hub it won't happen, but I really like the idea of an attempt at having every level have some plot relevance, ideally as dumb as can be. Heck, maybe even have it an excuse plot in-story? The Spirit of Rejected MAGL Levels leaves books outside of each level explaining how they connect and in what order? Maybe use LunaLUA to have a chapter number appear over each one? Or would that be too much clutter, a possible Horikawa and a book outside each level?

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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby Dragon Fogel » 2 years ago

If we were going for something that ambitious, it would probably be easiest to just insert plot-related NPCs throughout levels after we finish them. And not every level would be involved in that - we've got a fair number of fast-paced autoscrolling or pseudo-autoscrolling levels that just don't have much room for a plot, beyond "you're headed through here on the way to somewhere else".
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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby Blivsey » 2 years ago

what, do you mean rao's idea isn't enough to go on??
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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby Reecer7 » 2 years ago

I would love it if in some really silly, superficial way, each and every level was connected to one another. Even if it didn't have much thought put into it. Perhaps even the level makers themselves can get "Okay, here's the two levels randomly selected to be before and after you level, please put a transition at the end/beginning of your level to show how you get to/from the next level." It would basically be like Exquisite Corpse played in Mario levels, with the whole all-you-know-is-what-levels-are-directly-around-you,-not-the-whole-plot thing.
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Dragon Fogel
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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby Dragon Fogel » 2 years ago

So I was just thinking about raocow's plot suggestion and had a thought. To review:
raocow wrote:mario has to go check his mail but bowser put a powerstar lock on his mailbox! OH NO!!!
Except this time, bowser did the smart thing and DIDN'T construct a bunch of levels for mario to get stars! THAT FIEND!

this is when the spirit of unused level name shows up and is all 'don't worry mario me and the spirits of a far away place made levels for you to get stars in' and mario is all 'pastroni!'
raocow wrote:in the end mario finally opens up his mail and OH NO IT'S ALL BILLS *punchline*
We could have that just be the plot for World 1, which would put the punchline closer to the setup.

After that, for the later worlds, you find yourself with a bunch of bills to pay and somehow you end up doing that in the process of going through a bunch of levels. Probably each world would have one "final level", which might or might not be a boss fight depending on what people want to make, and then someone comes up with a silly explanation for how the events of that level somehow result in Mario paying one of the bills. (I am entirely willing to come up with silly explanations.)

Then in the final world, we arbitrarily declare that the bills were all part of a grander scheme orchestrated by Whoever The Final Boss Ends Up Being, so you have to go through some more levels and then fight them.

Obviously that's all very vague, but that also means it's wide open to do a lot of things with depending on the levels we end up with. Anyone else have thoughts on it?
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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby Solaris » 2 years ago

maybe we might want to have a sort of overall theme to all of the various tasks or plot things, give messages about rejection, and its effects on you, turn every level into a deep metaphor for the loss of faith in oneself

or uh, silly and cute, reasons to need a bunch of stars for something, as part of needing to pay bills

so like, marios in a kitchen, working as a baker to pay off the bill from when he just let yoshi eat a bunch of cookies and hes like
"man, i need to bake a cake but this oven doesnt have power, i better get ten stars to power up the oven"
mario solves all of his problems by just getting stars in levels wow no wonder he has so many bills
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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby Zyglrox Odyssey » 2 years ago

Dragon Fogel wrote:[plot]
I super dig the idea as a plot for a videogame thingy, but thinking about it I feel like this particular thing's nature as 'hey let's take a bunch of these super great unused level names from the MaGLs and make levels out of them' becomes secondary to the plot in that case. I'm not so sure I dig that quite as much, myself.
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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby Solaris » 2 years ago

after her defeat by mario in the first maglx, the spirit of rejected levels decided to take a more bureaucratic approach in minor revenge on mario and as a ploy to garner huge amounts of attention to the rejected levels, as mario is a public and followed figure, any controversy involving him is sure to garner the attention of many a people, as such by revealing his massive bill issues, the spirit of rejected levels can then set up marios journey as such that he travels through the rejected levels for the stars there, thus given them the attention they so rightly deserve

alternate idea: spirit builds a theme park out of rejected levels, mario has to test every attraction; spirit made an island with the rejected levels and mario went here to hide out while the heat dies down; the spirit got kidnapped and the lesser spirits of the rejected levels need mario to get stars to free her and if they do it they'll grant the amazing wish of leaving him alone for x period of time

joke edit: the spirit of maglx has kidnapped mario and other people/groups to enter a grand battle in which he has to go through levels at the same time as seven other people who wont show up but they are totally doing the same things you are and rounds are worlds an-

im sorry

way later edit actually: the plot of magl lost levels is every rejected plot idea
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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby CloudyCloud » 2 years ago

if bill is the idea that is gonna be taken for the plot, then I must take "Behold, there is a bank I deserve" name and make a bank level already. :)

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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby Granix » 2 years ago

I don't think there's need to develop a plot. It should be more like a background, like in both MaglX: "You're here on Yacht/City and there's some levels".

So, let's say we know that Mario has to pay the bills, but beating single world won't make story goes on. Beating all of them however could get us message like "You've got enough stars to pay the bills, but there's still interest to pay off". And then you can go to the post-world.

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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby S1eth » 2 years ago

Granix wrote:"You've got enough stars to pay the bills, but there's still interest to pay off". And then you can go to the post-world.
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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby Dragon Fogel » 2 years ago

The "pay the bills" plot would be mostly background, it's just that there might be a sill cutscene related to paying off a bill in between worlds.

It would then arbitrarily lead into some villain's master plan, which would probably be something like "ha ha ha, you played through all these levels, JUST AS I PLANNED ALL ALONG!" This is very loose because we haven't chosen a final boss and we probably only will when someone makes a boss level that feels like a final boss.

I want to emphasize that any plot I make is going to mostly come from playing around with things introduced in the levels and having them fit together in silly ways. "Paying the bills" would just be a framing device, and ideally I'd tie it in to things that happened over the course of the world.
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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby KayhemMaus » 2 years ago

I'm going out of my way (figuratively speaking) not to make Bowser a 'bad' guy in my levels thus far. If some decision is made against this idea I might have to retool my plotting. XD

Seriously though, I think a plot is a good idea and the bills one is the start, the germ of the idea, but it definitely needs to expand. I like the idea of each world having a theme - World One is the 'Star-Locked Mail-Box', World Two is 'Pay the Darn Bills', World Three: 'A Sinister Plot Begins', etc. Or something. I definitely think this should be attacked later down the line though when the levels start coming in, you know?
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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby Zyglrox Odyssey » 2 years ago

Dragon Fogel wrote:The "pay the bills" plot would be mostly background, it's just that there might be a sill cutscene related to paying off a bill in between worlds.

It would then arbitrarily lead into some villain's master plan, which would probably be something like "ha ha ha, you played through all these levels, JUST AS I PLANNED ALL ALONG!" This is very loose because we haven't chosen a final boss and we probably only will when someone makes a boss level that feels like a final boss.
Having those cutscenes after every world and the villain secretly having planned everything all along would make the plot very much not background though. Any cutscene by definition brings the plot to the forefront, all it even is is scripted dialog and things.

Personally the idea I'm having at this exact moment - unless MaGL X2 beats us to it, of course - is to do it like MaGL X1, having like no plot - or at most an excuse plot of some sort - for the maingame and then in "The Plot" in the postgame (since we all know it's going to end up in there one way or another) your 'villain pops in all "hahaha all according to plan"' thing happens and then ridiculous final battle featuring every "MaGL X Canon-Important" character ever ensues and everything is hilarious and amazing. I dunno, it feels more 'fitting' to me. And a heck of a lot more fun than having an actual 'plot' plot.

I do realise this is essentially "The Plot Only As an Actual Final Level of a Game and As Such Upscaled in Ridiculousness Accordingly" but I feel like it's the best way of handling the matter.
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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby Pyro » 2 years ago

I support this. It's way more in the "MaGL X spirit" and capturing that is supposed to be a goal of the project. I think.

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Dragon Fogel
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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby Dragon Fogel » 2 years ago

That's the thing, the "cutscenes" I'm imagining are maybe slightly more involved than the end-of-world cutscenes in SMW where Mario destroys the castle. There's a thin veneer of plot to them, but overall they're just presented as silly things that happen.

And exactly the same thing would apply to the "reveal" that someone was behind it all. It would just happen with no warning and the actual plan more than likely wouldn't make any sense.

Basically I'm suggesting we do a different silly excuse plot for every world - possibly with the bills being a single running thing, possibly just the excuse for World 2 or something - and the final world's excuse plot is "the whole thing was my plan all along".
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Re: Discussion. Do we have a running plot or not?

Postby KayhemMaus » 2 years ago

Dragon Fogel wrote:That's the thing, the "cutscenes" I'm imagining are maybe slightly more involved than the end-of-world cutscenes in SMW where Mario destroys the castle. There's a thin veneer of plot to them, but overall they're just presented as silly things that happen.

And exactly the same thing would apply to the "reveal" that someone was behind it all. It would just happen with no warning and the actual plan more than likely wouldn't make any sense.

Basically I'm suggesting we do a different silly excuse plot for every world - possibly with the bills being a single running thing, possibly just the excuse for World 2 or something - and the final world's excuse plot is "the whole thing was my plan all along".
This sounds like the best idea, just micro scenes between worlds. Even Battleblock Theater was like this. I mean, they were hilarious scenes but there was very little in the game focused on that in the gameplay, really when you think about it.
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