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Level Testing and Reviews

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S1eth
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby S1eth » 2 years ago

KayhemMaus wrote:
S1eth wrote:There's no difference between keyboard and gamepad. That part of the level is doable, but
the coins between the first 2 spinies are a bitch to get. I eventually got good at it, and started doing it without problems, but if you first enter that room, you'll be jumping between the first 2 spinies for a long time.

Too much big Mario discrimation in the first part. I glitched through most of it as big Mario anyway, but it's tedious.

Remove the top row of coins from all coin clusters in the first room so you can collect all of them as small Mario without having to jump.
Actually, the whole first room takes too long for my liking. Since there's no challenge to it, you should make it as simple as possible without forcing me to run back and forth and jump. That just wastes my time when I die and have to redo it.

Room with the coins and shell: If you actually do it fast, you die to the shell. You shouldn't be punished for being fast.

The vase room, place blocks between the vases so you don't have to jump between them to enter.

Toad room has weird cutoff. Peach room takes ages to do.

I died a lot in the water lava room in the top right corner, when Mario refused to jump from bubble to bubble and fell into the lava.

In general, you'll die a lot, and you'll have to reply all those tedious rooms over and over again.
I didn't play for good ending, but I assume I have to finished the whole level without dying once, and that's just not gonna happen.
I can't, say, hold run, a direction, try to throw upwards and jump at the same time on a keyboard when I can on a joypad. My keyboard refuses that many inputs. That's a big difference to me.
I admit the first rings set made me have to back and forth occasionally myself, I might get rid of those three just to eliminate that part. It is pretty annoying.

I originally was going to make someone do the whole set without power ups until the second exit came to mind, it's not about discrimination it's about endurance. Shy Guy isn't trying to make it easy for you. He wants you to die.

If you think the first room is so much of a problem with tedium then sure I can change it but I thought it set up the premise of the level rather well and to the point. Perhaps a different layout may help.

Do you mean the one with the leafs and shells or the one with the coinblocks and shell? Because I'm not sure what you're referring to here.

Sure, I'll add blocks. I only had them separated because originally I kept going in the wrong pipes when I was testing and knew they were too close together.

Toad room has cut-off? I'll have to investigate what you mean, I thought it was fine o.o

Peach's room is supposed to be the longest, it's Basic Rinka Dodging but in a setting that's not all that difficult. Plus, it does take less time if you kick the veg as it multi-hits the glass panels which does make it go faster.

I never had a problem going from bubble to bubble but I can test that out some more, see if there's any way to make that less frustrating for you. You did try floating with the leaf if you didn't get as good a jump as you wanted, right...?

Good ending, collect the 4 characters in one life, yeah. Again, I playtested the hell out of this to make sure I could do it and did it multiple times (but not every time, I admit)

I didn't die all that often, and I'm not that good at SMBX *points at flair* So I don't know what to tell you at this point... o.o; I'll put it back in the lab.
You should read this: https://www.microsoft.com/appliedscienc ... ained.mspx
Especially Notebook keyboards seem to suffer from ghosting.
If you buy keyboards designed for gaming, you'll usually have no problems with ghosting for keys around WASD.

Coinblocks and shell.
If you are slow, the shell bumps into a coin block and turns back, you're save.
If you collect all the rings before the shell reaches the center, the teleporter appears, the shell lands on the teleporter, and then kills you.
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KayhemMaus
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby KayhemMaus » 2 years ago

S1eth wrote:You should read this: https://www.microsoft.com/appliedscienc ... ained.mspx
Especially Notebook keyboards seem to suffer from ghosting.
If you buy keyboards designed for gaming, you'll usually have no problems with ghosting for keys around WASD.

Coinblocks and shell.
If you are slow, the shell bumps into a coin block and turns back, you're save.
If you collect all the rings before the shell reaches the center, the teleporter appears, the shell lands on the teleporter, and then kills you.
Fascinating, that explains a lot but I don't have a gaming keyboard and hate WASD position soooo...

The fact the shell can turn back at all is not intentional. It's supposed to be

a straight up race to the teleporter or death awaits.

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S1eth
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby S1eth » 2 years ago

If that's the case, then I think that section is impossible to do on your first try unless you're clairvoyant.

Or you could just wait at the start and spinjump onto the shell.
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KayhemMaus
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby KayhemMaus » 2 years ago

S1eth wrote:If that's the case, then I think that section is impossible to do on your first try unless you're clairvoyant.

Or you could just wait at the start and spinjump onto the shell.
While the latter is true, there is plenty of time to make that run. o.o I had terrible run ups and still had enough time to make it in testing... Failing that you can always

jump up onto the other coin blocks at the top of the dash and let the shell go under you...

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S1eth
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby S1eth » 2 years ago

KayhemMaus wrote:
S1eth wrote:If that's the case, then I think that section is impossible to do on your first try unless you're clairvoyant.

Or you could just wait at the start and spinjump onto the shell.
While the latter is true, there is plenty of time to make that run. o.o I had terrible run ups and still had enough time to make it in testing... Failing that you can always

jump up onto the other coin blocks at the top of the dash and let the shell go under you...

Tested, k, you cannot spinjump on the shell, the bouncing kills you.

If you first enter the room, you have to look: what is going on? Where is Mario? etc. And until you actually start running, it should be too late (if your shell worked correctly and didn't bump into the coin block). And I don't understand what you mean in the spoiler. You shouldn't get that far the first time you see the room.
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KayhemMaus
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby KayhemMaus » 2 years ago

S1eth wrote:
KayhemMaus wrote:
S1eth wrote:If that's the case, then I think that section is impossible to do on your first try unless you're clairvoyant.

Or you could just wait at the start and spinjump onto the shell.
While the latter is true, there is plenty of time to make that run. o.o I had terrible run ups and still had enough time to make it in testing... Failing that you can always

jump up onto the other coin blocks at the top of the dash and let the shell go under you...

Tested, k, you cannot spinjump on the shell, the bouncing kills you.

If you first enter the room, you have to look: what is going on? Where is Mario? etc. And until you actually start running, it should be too late (if your shell worked correctly and didn't bump into the coin block). And I don't understand what you mean in the spoiler. You shouldn't get that far the first time you see the room.
Just because you wouldn't doesn't mean others wouldn't react differently.

Nice to know you can't cheese the room, haha...

I can move the koopa to give you more reaction time but honestly, I found it too easy to make it at any further distance when I tested the level.
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Mata Hari
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby Mata Hari » 2 years ago

Arctangent wrote:Mission: Witty Lake

One star, pretty sure this is pretty solidly in the early game. It's in the feedback-stage, though overall very complete.
At first I thought it was a little boring, but then it started doing more interesting things with the gimmick and I can respect a gentle buildup. One thing that stood out to me was those six brick blocks at the beginning that don't do anything except have a single coin in them. It makes you feel like there's going to be something more to them, like maybe a hidden block above, but there's not. I realize that's a weird thing to get hung up on though. Overall, it's a decent early-game level with a solid gimmick. Isn't really anything 'witty' about it tho :P

S1eth
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby S1eth » 2 years ago

Keep in mind that you know exactly what's coming (since you made it). The shell works fine, currently, when it bounces back, even if that's unintended.
Actually, you should have noticed that, since it happens every time.

I played that section about 20 times, and the general strategy was: run an collect all rings except the last. Wait for the shell to hit the box above the ring, then collect the ring, spawn the elevator and get the shell stuck to the right of the elevator.
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S1eth
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby S1eth » 2 years ago

Mission: Witty Lake
Nice straight forward level.

The only issue I have with it: There's absolutely no thought involved in hitting switches. The water only goes up and down 1 stage. There's no puzzle aspect, or hidden secrets that you can unlock by manipulating the water (unless I just haven't found them).

It's a no brainer. Go forward, hit switch, continue. Ultimately, it doesn't even matter what visual effect hitting the siwtch has on the level. If you see a switch, you hit it. You could do so much more with this gimmick. (like Wet Dry World in SM64)
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Dragon Fogel
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby Dragon Fogel » 2 years ago

I really should make a list or something to keep track of if I've tested the most recent version of a level.

Mushroom Kingdom Sky Desert by FrozenQuills (again)
I still feel like the Touhou music gag mostly comes across as "make fun of a thing by just doing that thing", though the music in the first section is definitely improved. The new boss fight is an interesting idea, though I started out by trying to whittle them down slowly with fireballs (until I lost my power-up) and started getting tired of the SMB3 boss music after a while. I'd appreciate something more lively, myself, but really that's a pretty minor issue.

The biggest issue I noticed is that some of the jumping-blocks can be killed with fireballs and some can't, and there's no way to tell which is which. I'm guessing these are default properties of the Zelda blobs that you didn't change; that should be fixed up so it's consistent across both types, whichever way you want to handle it.
I also made another attempt at Tender Transportation Act by SAJewers. I'm still not very good at it, but I nearly made it to the Ted-bouncing. I'm finding it really hard to cross the saw-flowers consistently, is there some particular trick to it?

(SMBX crashed in the middle of testing that, so that's probably all I'm doing tonight. I'm feeling pretty behind on these.)
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KayhemMaus
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby KayhemMaus » 2 years ago

S1eth wrote:Keep in mind that you know exactly what's coming (since you made it). The shell works fine, currently, when it bounces back, even if that's unintended.
Actually, you should have noticed that, since it happens every time.

I played that section about 20 times, and the general strategy was: run an collect all rings except the last. Wait for the shell to hit the box above the ring, then collect the ring, spawn the elevator and get the shell stuck to the right of the elevator.
If that's a valid strategy fine but I'd like to reiterate that I never failed to make it to the end of the run before the shell did no matter how long I took to start the dash. I don't understand how the first instinct isn't to start collecting the rings as soon as possible which would pretty much be 'run forward almost immediately'. And since I am usually already running that direction from the last screen, it doesn't take that long.

This is clearly just my thought processes, because even if I made the level, I have a terrible memory and I rarely recalled which level came next. :P But I have already changed the timing of the shell/koopa that should make it easier in future, as well as some other changes.
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S1eth
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby S1eth » 2 years ago

KayhemMaus wrote: I don't understand how the first instinct isn't to start collecting the rings as soon as possible which would pretty much be 'run forward almost immediately'.
Because you have no idea where Mario spawns on the screen, so you don't know where "forward" is.
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Dog In Da Grass
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby Dog In Da Grass » 2 years ago

I have a level that needs testing but I'm putting a special challenge to it.
I want to see how easy it is for all of you to get to Bowser on the VERY FIRST try (through the castle) I've trimmed back my level to prevent spoiling my main gimmick but the castle is the first section and I need it to be easy enough to get through on the first try as well as being interesting to play through. Thanks in advanced~

http://www.mediafire.com/download/6g21o ... he+day.zip
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S1eth
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby S1eth » 2 years ago

Dog In Da Grass wrote:I have a level that needs testing but I'm putting a special challenge to it.
I want to see how easy it is for all of you to get to Bowser on the VERY FIRST try (through the castle) I've trimmed back my level to prevent spoiling my main gimmick but the castle is the first section and I need it to be easy enough to get through on the first try as well as being interesting to play through. Thanks in advanced~

http://www.mediafire.com/download/6g21o ... he+day.zip
I beat it on the first try, but I played very carefully. Finished as small Mario, I used the clock to skip Bowser.
I rushed a bit more in subsequent playthroughs , and tried using the clock in firebar sections, which lead to a few deaths.
So, you can easily beat this on your first try if you don't play like an idiot.
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Mata Hari
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby Mata Hari » 2 years ago

KayhemMaus wrote:Very British Toad

Completion: Virtually? Any issues come up they'll be fixed but otherwise I'm pretty happy with this one. It's mostly flavour anyway.

Stars: 1.
Yeah, mostly flavour. The enemy-spam stairs are pretty boring, though. I'd do something to make them more interesting. Changing the actual architecture around a bit should work, rather than just being 'some stairs and then some stairs'.

The music on the bridge and the Goomba yelling like an idiot made me lol. BANTER!!!

You could also include a joke about how most of the stuff in the British Museum is stolen goods.
Last edited by Mata Hari on 28 Jul 2015, 11:08, edited 1 time in total.

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KayhemMaus
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby KayhemMaus » 2 years ago

dr_kraid wrote:
KayhemMaus wrote:Very British Toad

Completion: Virtually? Any issues come up they'll be fixed but otherwise I'm pretty happy with this one. It's mostly flavour anyway.

Stars: 1.
Yeah, mostly flavour. The enemy-spam stairs are pretty boring, though. I'd do something to make them more interesting, but I can't think of anything specific. The music on the bridge and the Goomba yelling like an idiot made me lol. BANTER!!!

You could also include a joke about most of the stuff in the British Museum being stolen.
Yeah, the stairs had less enemies originally... was much more boring! I don't want the level to be only flavour but I'm a little stumped with what to do with that area too.

I'm glad you appreciate the Goomba and my music choices. :D

There is a space I was considering putting another comment in with another bombguard so I guess I have something to say with it now. :D
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Mata Hari
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby Mata Hari » 2 years ago

I edited my post as you quoted it. Gosh

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KayhemMaus
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby KayhemMaus » 2 years ago

dr_kraid wrote:I edited my post as you quoted it. Gosh
Whoops, sorry! That's a good idea, thank you. :D
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby Pyro » 2 years ago

OK, stuff. I went on a level-spree and played all the levels with an exception of three. Here's some stuff that particularly stood out to me.

A Calm Cave In Vast Space - Where is the second star? I honestly have no idea where it is.
Oh This? It's Just My Brutal Swimming Paradise - The jellyfish cage is pretty unfair. You might want to make the line guides white - that would make them easier to see.
So Few Dudes - Are you supposed to use the leaf to get up to the second star?
And Wario Said Unto Them 'Warm the Education'. And It Was So. - 11/10 best level of the whole project.

Also, I've organized most of the levels into a WIP order on the level spreadsheet. Let me know if you disagree with a placement or if I put down incorrect info. I think there are too many levels in the first few worlds but I'm not sure which ones to move.
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Mata Hari
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby Mata Hari » 2 years ago

Pyro wrote:A Calm Cave In Vast Space - Where is the second star? I honestly have no idea where it is.
Huh, I didn't think it would be that bad.

Did you find the cave in the first half? There's more to it than that little room.


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KayhemMaus
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby KayhemMaus » 2 years ago

Pyro wrote:Also, I've organized most of the levels into a WIP order on the level spreadsheet. Let me know if you disagree with a placement or if I put down incorrect info. I think there are too many levels in the first few worlds but I'm not sure which ones to move.
I don't think Very British Toad belongs after Fiercely and Indiscriminately Murder but otherwise seems cool :3
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Pyro
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby Pyro » 2 years ago

dr_kraid wrote:
Pyro wrote:A Calm Cave In Vast Space - Where is the second star? I honestly have no idea where it is.
Huh, I didn't think it would be that bad.

Did you find the cave in the first half? There's more to it than that little room.

Alright, I found it now!

Also, every finished level is organized now. KayhemMaus told me to wait on his newest level.
KayhemMaus wrote: I don't think Very British Toad belongs after Fiercely and Indiscriminately Murder but otherwise seems cool :3
I played the very earliest version of FAIM so that might be a factor. I'll redownload it and check.

EDIT: Did you delete all of the FAIM files?
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KayhemMaus
I keep breaking my face on SMBX
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby KayhemMaus » 2 years ago

Pyro wrote:Also, every finished level is organized now. KayhemMaus told me to wait on his newest level.
KayhemMaus wrote: I don't think Very British Toad belongs after Fiercely and Indiscriminately Murder but otherwise seems cool :3
I played the very earliest version of FAIM so that might be a factor. I'll redownload it and check.

EDIT: Did you delete all of the FAIM files?
I updated the level now, you can check it out.

As for FAIM no, they should still be there. o.o Let me check the spreadsheet if it links to the newest one. o.o;

EDIT

WELL, something has gone very wrong with my Google Drive! O_O Almost all my duplicates are awol. I dunno how that happened. I'll reupload the correct files.

EDIT PART 2

I made an error in logic, other people would like the links for testing as well, I would imagine, never mind the PM part.
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S1eth
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby S1eth » 2 years ago

Mata Hari - A Calm Cave in Vast Space (1.4)
Here are some spots where the player can glitch into the walls and get stuck: https://imgur.com/zUYGZDH
The yellow mark is a wrongly used block.

And this can happen: http://imgur.com/6AxjrWJ
The vine even prevents more koopas from spawning, so the level can not be completed.

How do you get to the secret star without leaf/tanooki? There is no indication in the small room that there would be anything at the top of the waterfall, and there doesn't seem to be any way to get up there.

In the secret area, if you fly to the left using your tanooki suit, you'll see the top of the waterfall graphics, or where they cut off and come out from nothing.
I origingally thought the slide was there so you should use it to jump all the way to the left, but that just leads to your death.
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Mata Hari
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Re: Level Testing and Reviews

Postby Mata Hari » 2 years ago

S1eth wrote:Mata Hari - A Calm Cave in Vast Space (1.4)
Here are some spots where the player can glitch into the walls and get stuck: https://imgur.com/zUYGZDH
The yellow mark is a wrongly used block.
I wouldn't consider most of those to be an issue because the player would have to be going out of their way to glitch through them. The one at the midpoint is enough of a problem for me to fix. And the wrong block. The Galoomba one is fine because it can't get you stuck and again it's fiddly enough for you to have to know what you're doing.
S1eth wrote:
And this can happen: http://imgur.com/6AxjrWJ
The vine even prevents more koopas from spawning, so the level can not be completed.
Yeah, that's a little weird. I don't like that section much anyway so I think I'll just change it entirely (getting rid of the glitchy niche too!).
S1eth wrote:
How do you get to the secret star without leaf/tanooki? There is no indication in the small room that there would be anything at the top of the waterfall, and there doesn't seem to be any way to get up there.

You're not supposed to get up there without a powerup. You are given a leaf in the first half. The fact someone else also had trouble finding it seems to indicate it's too obscure, so I'll have to put some kind of indicator there. I want it to be more subtle than coins though.


S1eth wrote:
In the secret area, if you fly to the left using your tanooki suit, you'll see the top of the waterfall graphics, or where they cut off and come out from nothing.
I didn't expect anyone to be able to get up that far, but I guess they can, so I'll fix that.
S1eth wrote:
I origingally thought the slide was there so you should use it to jump all the way to the left, but that just leads to your death.

That is what you do. You slide from the top and the momentum throws you off at the bottom. Actually jumping would kill you because it kills your momentum. What were you doing?



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