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Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Ready to vote? Too late it's over
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Re: Most Likely to Make References You Won't Get

Post by Rixithechao »

Doctor Shemp wrote:If you want to bot it, then the best way to construct it would be an automated poll in which each user either selects an option that's already there or writes in a new one. That way, there's no typos - unless it's the first vote for something - but in that case it's obvious what it's meant to be, and there'll be no split votes from typos. For example, there's no need to count votes for "Doctor Shemp" and "Dr Shemp" and "Dr. Shemp" and "Shemp" and add them together if everyone after the first voter already sees the option "Doctor Shemp" and clicks on that. This imposition of a new method on an old system seems like a guarantee to cock up and have to count it manually anyway.
I like this idea and personally would like to see it implemented next year unless it ends up being too much work to implement like Alice said. I wasn't aware of your past experience with this stuff until after I saw that post I linked to. I do agree that there is so much wrong with both America's election systems and our election culture and was trying to say as much, and I suppose that problematic attitude kind of leaked through my own posts as well.

The "that doesn't make talk like this..." bit and the one towards Bwarch was just me being hypocritical by responding to statements that seemed to be phrased in a broad/vague/pointlessly rude manner... with vague, pointlessly rude statements. And though it wasn't really my intent to try to moderate the discussion like you're saying Bwarch is, I was effectively doing just that. So my apologies about all of that :oops:
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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by Doctor Shemp »

Leet wrote:its ridiculous to excuse people's ignorance if the information they need to know is very clearly marked as important, put before them, and easily available

why not excuse any rulebreaks from people who dont read the talkhaus rules, and just never ban them?
Because the intent of rules and the intent of voting are different, or at least should be (coming back to values again).
The intent of forum rules are to disallow a minority from being heard.
The intent of voting rules are to allow a majority to be heard.

Two distinct purposes necessarily require two distinct approaches.
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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by Bwarch »

Rockythechao wrote:
Doctor Shemp wrote:If you want to bot it, then the best way to construct it would be an automated poll in which each user either selects an option that's already there or writes in a new one. That way, there's no typos - unless it's the first vote for something - but in that case it's obvious what it's meant to be, and there'll be no split votes from typos. For example, there's no need to count votes for "Doctor Shemp" and "Dr Shemp" and "Dr. Shemp" and "Shemp" and add them together if everyone after the first voter already sees the option "Doctor Shemp" and clicks on that. This imposition of a new method on an old system seems like a guarantee to cock up and have to count it manually anyway.
I like this idea and personally would like to see it implemented next year unless it ends up being too much work to implement like Alice said.
Problem with a system like that though is that it makes for rigging very easy if somebody so wishes. We already had people joking about it just with the Mosts category voting this year. There's a reason we do voting through posts I feel, it lets you be sure.
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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by YelseyKing »

Bwarch wrote:Problem with a system like that though is that it makes for rigging very easy if somebody so wishes. We already had people joking about it just with the Mosts category voting this year. There's a reason we do voting through posts I feel, it lets you be sure.
I like voting through posts because it lets us say *why* we're voting for someone. There have been a few instances where I was undecided on who to vote for until someone made a very compelling point I hadn't considered. "Automated" voting would lose that and would overall make the whole process a lot less fun.
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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by Bwarch »

That too, it's a good point, it lets the forum act as a forum and let people talk to one another about their choices by having them in the open.
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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by Alice »

Doctor Shemp wrote:I just take umbrage to two things:
1. That Candidate A won when Candidate B had more votes, just some of them written incorrectly (as did happen last year and could easily happen again in categories coming down to the wire) is not only fine but admirable (Bwarch's position). Now I would agree with that if the vote is completely incomprehensible, but if the intention is clear, I firmly believe as a matter of principle that it should count, and that something like "MrDeePayDoctor Shemp" or "Um... [line break] MrDeePay because [blah blah blah]" wouldn't count as votes is ridiculous.
I don't disagree that this would work if Rena is willing to put in a little bit extra time to comb over the results but it still is a fact that, as Leet said, the guidelines for voting are not only clearly marked but put right up in an obvious location with an obvious headline of "Read first". If someone can't follow those simple instructions then they obviously don't care enough about their vote to be sure it actually gets counted properly. So if they don't care then why should Rena care when they're just making her job more difficult? In your specific examples, for example, the MDP one I'd definitely agree counts. (Edit: I overlooked the fact that "Um..." is on a line before MrDeePay so it falls under this next bit too.) The first one though (or something like "I'll vote MrDeePay because...") is clearly them not paying enough attention to the rules which clearly state that your vote needs to be the first thin in your post.
2. Bwarch's continued attitude that he is a mod and any questioning of a mod's will is heretical.
I have to be blunt here. This sort of response really doesn't help your point. Not only is Bwarch not really doing this but it only serves to further drive a wedge between the opposing sides by launching a baseless personal attack rather than an argument.

Edit:
Doctor Shemp wrote:The intent of voting rules are to allow a majority to be heard.
This is true but it also relies on people following guidelines to get done properly.
Last edited by Alice 9 years ago, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by Rixithechao »

Bwarch wrote:Problem with a system like that though is that it makes for rigging very easy if somebody so wishes. We already had people joking about it just with the Mosts category voting this year. There's a reason we do voting through posts I feel, it lets you be sure.
...

...Oh, yeah, that's... that's pretty much the exact same system we used to suggest categories in the first place.

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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by Bwarch »

Heeeeeh, s'alright buddy.
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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by Doctor Shemp »

Alice wrote:
2. Bwarch's continued attitude that he is a mod and any questioning of a mod's will is heretical.
I have to be blunt here. This sort of response really doesn't help your point. Not only is Bwarch not really doing this but it only serves to further drive a wedge between the opposing sides by launching a baseless personal attack rather than an argument.
You want to know why? Because every time I say something that even slightly offends him, he's there, with this air that he is still the arbiter and final word when he has no authority because he pissed it away. So sure, he has the right to disagree, but to disagree as if he's the final word, no, not any more than I have. So if I'm going to have a fight with, to use a real example, Jesuiscontent, and he wants to shut me up, he has that power because he has that authority. And then Bwarch and others have the gall to call me out for ad hominem attacks immediately after he makes ones of his own? Now, let me be on the record here, as I have been before: I have no issue with ad hominem attacks. That's not my issue. What I cannot fucking stand is hypocrisy, and this idea that after pissing away your power you can then keep the airs and graces off it and brush off everything with a "fuck off, my will be done" or a "be thankful I am merciful today" as you have any power beyond the extent to which you can compel those in actual power. So, in short, I am increasingly wondering if alex is right and I should just fuck off.
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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by sedron »

Doctor Shemp wrote:Words
Why is a fight happening? This isn't you trying to secure that "Most Likely To Complain," award, is it?

This isn't worth getting worked up over. Like, at all. Whether or not the voting system saves time for Rena is moot, as she's made her decision. It's going to get results regardless of whether one option would have been slightly faster. As for whether it will disqualify votes, I'm fairly confident that whatever script/bot/whatever she uses will do fine. I imagine it would return results somewhat like this, as an example.

Most Likely to Do a Thing
1 Doctorshemp
5 Doctor Shemp
3 Leet
2 -
2 Fluffimasta
1 raocow

If it returns a list like that, she can clearly see where the extra vote is for you. I don't think it'll even change the outcome of the majority of the Mosts to begin with, but I have faith that the system will work out just fine.

Even barring justifying Rena's choices, why are you so worried about this? Yes, you complain a lot, but you also offer constructive criticism, which, as you noted, is not really the same thing. This isn't constructive criticism. You're obviously fully capable of it, and it's super helpful, but you're not doing it right now.

I understand why you're reading into Bwarch's comments how you are. That said, I don't think his intentions are to order people around and stop questioning. "Follow the rules or get out," comes off very poorly, especially given Bwarch's history as a mod (which I don't know the details of, but know the basics I guess?) , but I think he's made it clear that he didn't mean it as "obey the mods/me," and more as "the rules are clearly available and not unrealistic to follow, so it's your fault if you screw up." The whole deal with Americans isn't helping your case, either. You're letting personal biases totally ruin your argument, and everything you're saying seems fueled not so much by logic as anger.

Just take a step back and a few deep breaths, man. You don't need to fuck off. Calm down and reevaluate why you're fighting this battle. The entire dialogue boils down to "either a few votes won't count or Rena will waste some time, maybe." Sure, okay, either option may be true (more likely some time will be wasted, though in the case that the system is used every year not so much in the long run.) but it's an awfully silly topic to get this blown up over.
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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by KobaBeach »

YelseyKing wrote:I expected I'd at *least* get a vote from KobaBeach,
a vote on Best New Poster, Who isn't Actually that New

just for u

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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by ano0maly »

RenaBeach has said that there will be about 90 categories total so keep that in mind if you're planning out your votes in advance like I am.
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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by Rixithechao »

Jumping back in real quick to say that sedron did a good job of summing up a lot of what I was trying to get at.

Looking back, it wasn't just the "Follow the rules or get out" comment, the initial "invalidating the vote" post was poorly worded too and Bwarch did have a somewhat mocking and dismissive tone between those two comments. I even missed this little gem here in the heat of the argument (emphasis mine):
Bwarch wrote:It's about making it easier for the mod team when they do so much already, Shemp, you ungrateful jerk.
It's not quite the commanding, authoritative attitude Dr. Shemp was making it out to be, but it was still a negative attitude and, like I said before, it did not help matters.
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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by YelseyKing »

KobaBeach wrote:
YelseyKing wrote:I expected I'd at *least* get a vote from KobaBeach,
a vote on Best New Poster, Who isn't Actually that New

just for u

u go rpg catman
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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by Sorel »

Can I apply for the job of the Vote Counting Guy here?
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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by InsaneIntentions1 »

C'mon guys
That crazy voice dude
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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by YelseyKing »

InsaneIntentions1 wrote:C'mon guys
That line is gender exclusive. There *are* females here as well, you know!
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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by InsaneIntentions1 »

You'll all be skeletons one day
That crazy voice dude
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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by Bwarch »

Tru.
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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by Alice »

InsaneIntentions1 wrote:You'll all be skeletons one day
I'm actually completely boneless. I'm just a fleshy lump.
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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by InsaneIntentions1 »

You poor slug creature
That crazy voice dude
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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by O'Largill »

pls update talkhaus gender system to include skeletongender & slugender
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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by Rixithechao »

O'Largill wrote:pls update talkhaus gender system to include skeletongender & slugender
Can't forget "does it even matter we'll all be skeletons one day"
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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by Vergalon »

And now I'm not going to be surprised when the gender profile option is changed to a text field :3
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Re: Talkhaus Mosts 2014 discussion thread !!!!!

Post by sedron »

I already suggested that in Forum Suggestions. I don't think it's happening. =P
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