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smw centralsmbx communitypge project

ASMT v2.0

wanna make a game, or anything else? seminal bloom!
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Septentrion Pleiades
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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby Septentrion Pleiades » 7 years ago

I think the King Charles battle should have a bit more complex level design, and should include King Charles destroying the floor in a manner similar to SMB3's Browser.

Here is my Idea:

Instead of the lava pit randomly at the end, there should be a hole to go down the teleports you to a more vertical level. The level should have the destructible blocks with a few indestructible block to make Charles hop around. There could also be reflecting fireballs with a layer 2 ceiling.


Also, I didn't have mind the scroll kills. It's really not bad especially if there is a midpoint before that.
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Wyatt
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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby Wyatt » 7 years ago

Woah hold on a second here, I've been misinterpreting something. I assumed that the midpoint would be before heavy press. Only now do I realize you guys are saying to have it at the start of the KC battle.

Wouldn't it make more sense to put it before heavy press though? I mean, the final quarter of the level would probably still be the shortest, and the 3rd quarter the longest. Plus, replaying heavy press is fun, and will be way better once we fix him to not spawn bullets in your face. And it creates tension for Charles knowing that death has more significant consequences.

kil: whoops, should've realized that

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raocow
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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby raocow » 7 years ago

We're thinking of making the castle itself one level, and the bosses another seperate 'spot'
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Wyatt
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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby Wyatt » 7 years ago

Hm, I knew we were dividing the level in two but I figured we'd divide at the current midpoint instead of at the bosses.

So if we do divide it at the bosses, does that mean the first level of the two will have two midpoints (one at the second choice area and one where the midpoint is now) and the second will have one (between the two bosses)? If so then having the scrolling still kill you is pretty much fine, but I still do think that we need to warn the player about it somehow.

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Argumentable
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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby Argumentable » 7 years ago

Add some Hint Huts and make that a hint in one of the huts (do we have extra levels available even?)

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yoshicookiezeus
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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby yoshicookiezeus » 7 years ago

Looking at all the suggestions for the castle, how's this for a general layout?

King Charles' Castle - Entrance
castle entrance - first sequence of castle rooms - midpoint - second sequence of castle rooms - goal

King Charles' Castle - Main Hall (or something like that, can't think of a good name right now)
short command center-type room - VR sequence - midpoint - boss battles

As for the King Charles battle itself: making the sides of the screen not kill you is a really simple matter of adding a few lines of code, so I can easily experiment to check if it makes the battle too easy.
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TomPhanto
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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby TomPhanto » 7 years ago

Cool. I'd say the King Charles battle would still be a decent challenge even without the screens killing you.
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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby kil3 » 7 years ago

"inner sanctum"?

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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby AUS » 7 years ago

yoshicookiezeus wrote:As for the King Charles battle itself: making the sides of the screen not kill you is a really simple matter of adding a few lines of code, so I can easily experiment to check if it makes the battle too easy.
Not that I'm for the walls not killing you but wouldn't you testing it be a tad biased in the sense that you've probably had to beat the level before anyway? (IE: You've "learnt" it already)

Or did you not playtest the level, I dunno, I assume you did as the ASMT coordinator. :P
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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby Moniker » 7 years ago

I think as it is the screen-killing in the KC battle does come off as a bit too rough. I have no idea how it's coded, but perhaps if the screen were bordered with spikes (purely cosmetic, on layer 2 or 3) it would make things a lot clearer & cleaner.
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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby kil3 » 7 years ago

Another thing that always bugged me...

Why are there enemies in the secret storehouse? Having all those chucks there kinda makes it feel unsafe for what it's supposed to be: a special reward area for beating the game.

And yes I'm just posting this because I died while on my way to use the jukebox >_>

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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby Argumentable » 7 years ago

You mean the chucks that don't move at all? I would be all for removing or revamping the storehouse anyway (I think the whole "raocowology" thing is stupid, but maybe I'm still bitter that it turned into an "omg we're making a hack for raocow" thing instead of a "hey talkhaus lets make a cool romhack together" thing)

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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby Wyatt » 7 years ago

So I've been touching up all the music, and it's going very smoothly. Every song (save a few which I'll mention) now works in bsnes, free of feedback noise.

A few significant changes:
-brinstar.txt (the music for the worm level) loops properly
-channels optimized on most songs where it was an issue (might've missed a couple though)
-bubblecrab.txt (generic water level music) is replaced w the Cool or Cruel port of the same song
-forestfrenzy.txt (Wild Green Yonder's music, had looping problems) is replaced with Jimmy's version from SMWC

There's still more stuff I want to do though!

Ports with better versions:

cirno
krooksmarch
varyags

I've heard a better Krook's March in a few hacks, mostly japanese ones I think (EDIT: It's used in hyper V for the few stages before the final castle, for example). I know that there's a really good Cirno's Theme out there, maybe it's the one in SMWCP (that one's certainly better than ASMT's version) but I think I remember hearing an even better one somewhere. Varyags is a more unique case: it's that heavy metal song from Below The Ice, There Is. I know that somebody improved this port really soon after ASMT came out; the spc is in the soundtrack that PinkKittyRose ripped, but I know it's not actually in the game (searched through the jukebox to be sure). If anyone has information on any of these it'd be real helpful.

Ports that are lackluster:

buoybase
quickman Am redoing this one. Pretend the next paragraph is only talking about buoybase

These songs are both in pretty tough endgame levels, but don't convey the intensity they should. I feel strongly enough about these (buoybase especially) that I'll redo the ports from scratch if I have to. Or, there's another option: I can make completely new songs for these two levels (The Final Assault and Trial of Iron). They could be ports, or they could be completely original songs. I want you guys to weigh in on this! If you guys like the current songs then that's fine, I'll go ahead and revise them. Just know that replacing them with something new won't take any extra effort on my part.

Ports I still need to touch up: (spoilered since it doesn't matter for most (if any) of you)
hakugyokoro (important instruments are on sfx channels)
lastbattle (sync falls apart halfway through)
maradia
All Overworld Songs
In short, link me the best versions of the "Ports with better versions" songs, and give your opinion on what you'd like to hear in The Final Assault and Trial of Iron.
Last edited by Wyatt on 03 Jun 2014, 23:35, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: quickman song update

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raocow
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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby raocow » 7 years ago

Have a very soft, very very low key rendition of the lullaby for the red hallway (When I watched it played by Ryuu, the silence just... it just didn't work at all)
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Wyatt
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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby Wyatt » 7 years ago

Really? I loved the silence when I played it.

Though, if people do agree with you on adding music, we shouldn't use the lullaby: it's a2mt's theme, and it would feel wrong if it was added to asmt, which was made before the song even existed.

Also, Argumentable's right, we should get rid of raocowology.

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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby limepie20 » 7 years ago

Wyatt wrote: Also, Argumentable's right, we should get rid of raocowology.
I agree on fully redoing the storehouse. It really had nothing going for it except for the juke box. Jus have a nice little room with powerups and the jukebox. Unless someone has an actual idea.

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AUS
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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby AUS » 7 years ago

A block that gives 99 lives?
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Jesuiscontent
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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby Jesuiscontent » 7 years ago

A few things that I thought about last night while trying to sleep (counting sheep is so yesterday man) :

-Everyone probably know this already, but in SNES9X the lakitu boss just moves around and doesn't throw any boulders. I don't know if it's possible to fix but I remember it quite bothered me to have to switch to ZNES while I played it. Worst case scenario, tell the player in a message box in the level?

-The glitch abusing room in Panic Puzzle... I know it might not seem much but I spent a good 5 minutes wondering what I was supposed to do before eventually randomly spinjumping everywhere then barely remembering that spinjump-under-a-tile glitch. I'd suggest just letting the player fall down when he comes out of the pipe since it's not hard to get back to that pipe.

-The secret exits that use pipes when the level already have pipes everywhere : I'm especially talking about Giant ice cubes here. Seriously. This is the only secret exit in the game that I've never found (not counting, of course, the secret levels after this one that I've, thus, never unlocked). I know there are some other levels that use the same mechanic (Raw horse power i think) but I don't know, I don't think they are as bad as this one. I found the key no problems but I went in some really stupid places in hope of finding the keyhole before eventually giving up.
Oh also, maybe it's just me but I found the wizard + ice physics + precision jumps (especially when you hold the key) a bit too much for a level in such a "early" place in the game, I have to admit I eventually abused savestates here. I know it's designed by raocow but still. :P
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Wyatt
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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby Wyatt » 7 years ago

AUS wrote:A block that gives 99 lives?
Not sure about this: the only really hard levels in the post-game are hot beach (will be relatively easy with a midpoint), currents (easy first half), and over there (easy second half).I guess it would give the storehouse a little more purpose (EDIT: though the jukebox is probably purpose enough).
Jesuiscontent wrote:-Everyone probably know this already, but in SNES9X the lakitu boss just moves around and doesn't throw any boulders. I don't know if it's possible to fix but I remember it quite bothered me to have to switch to ZNES while I played it. Worst case scenario, tell the player in a message box in the level?
This is actually a really big deal: we're already changing the music for real SNES compatibility, so this should be fixed too. I'd say worst case scenario is to give the player an instant-win if they're not using zsnes (90% sure this is possible) but ideally someone will be able to actually fix the bug.
Jesuiscontent wrote:-The glitch abusing room in Panic Puzzle
You're right, making players use glitches is dumb. I agree with making this room into a fall.
Jesuiscontent wrote:-The secret exits that use pipes when the level already have pipes everywhere : I'm especially talking about Giant ice cubes here.
Agree with this 100%. Probably the only reason nobody's questioned this exit is that most players watched raocow's LP first, so they knew what to do. There should be coins on top of the pipe as an indicator.

Also, if you enter the pipe then try to go back from where you came, you get plopped out face-first into an enemy. Also you and the enemy are offscreen. What the hell raocow!

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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby kil3 » 7 years ago

ps you can detect which emulator people are using in game by reading some unintialized RAM. bsnes used to initialize it all to the number 0x55 but now I heard it's psuedorandom so that might be a bit of an issue. SNES9x should still initialize everything to 0x85.

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Argumentable
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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby Argumentable » 7 years ago

I wouldn't mind looking at some of the levels and implementing some of the changes myself. At least ones so far as level design and basic lunar magic things go.

Edit: I probably already posted this too lazy to look

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alex2
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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby alex2 » 7 years ago

So how goes this thus far?
Warning: Opinions expressed by alex2 or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of alex2 himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
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yoshicookiezeus
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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby yoshicookiezeus » 7 years ago

I've been rather busy with college exams these last few weeks, but since I had the last one today I'll try to get started on doing some actual work on this soon. First up: figuring out which versions of the patches in my ASMT folder are the correct ones and porting everything to a new ROM.
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tatanga
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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby tatanga » 7 years ago

This is a great idea. I'd be inclined to help with this some as well! Besides the remarks already made by yoshicookiezeus, does anyone have any suggestions for making my levels better?

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Re: ASMT v2.0

Postby Argumentable » 7 years ago

Yeah removing them completely


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