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## ASMT v2.0

wanna make a game, or anything else? seminal bloom!
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### ASMT v2.0

Not to be confused with A2MT, this is an idea that I have been entertaining for some time now. Basically, the idea is to go through the original hack, add more midpoints, tone down some of the more difficult levels, make it compatible with emulators that aren't ZSNES, and generally make the thing a bit more playable than the current version. I haven't gotten beyond the planning phase yet (and probably won't for a while due to being involved with both SMWCP2 and A2MT, as well as college starting up again), but I'm thankful for any and all suggestions you might have.

Here's what I have so far:
Last edited by yoshicookiezeus on 05 Jun 2014, 22:36, edited 19 times in total.

kil3
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Joined: 8 years ago

### Re: ASMT v2.0

great idea

also I would like to re-add the HDMA scroll to rumia now that we're non-lazy enough to

also an actual endboss would be cool. even some thrown-together custom bigboo thing would be better than just a vanilla one in my opinion

and oh my god we need to fix those cement guys from despawning that was just awful

Money
Posts: 483
Joined: 8 years ago

### Re: ASMT v2.0

Would it also be given A2MT's HDified graphics?
This sounds like a pretty good idea to me.

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Location: Sweden

### Re: ASMT v2.0

MoneyMan wrote:Would it also be given A2MT's HDified graphics?
This sounds like a pretty good idea to me.
You know, that's a pretty good idea. We'd need new redrawn graphics for the sprites that were changed completely for the sequel, though; most notably the Yoshis and Charlies.

Wyatt
Posts: 20
Joined: 10 years ago

### Re: ASMT v2.0

This is a fantastic idea, will help out where I can. Mainly in the music department, The Final Assault and Below the Ice There Is had crap music. I do have some gameplay suggestions though; having played through savestateless I feel I have a pretty good idea of which parts were unfair or dumb.

Patches:
-Show if you've collected a level's yoshi coins
-Autosaving on overworld load. This saves midpoints too, it'd be cool if we could disable that like we want to for a2mt

Starry Nights:
-Only needs one midpoint, but move it ahead so you're right under the pipe when you respawn from it

King Charles' Castle:
-Split this into two levels. Honestly if we did this I think we could get by without the multiple midpoint patch, but we can still insert it for certain levels like A Honeypot Trap and The Castle That Goes Up And Down.

Overly Hot Beach:
-If we do put in a midpoint, leave in the end trap.

Trial Of Iron:
-Get rid of (or at least tone down) the yoshizilla room.

VideoGuy
Posts: 0
Joined: 9 years ago

### Re: ASMT v2.0

I'll add this in because it's always bothered me: Fix the background pallete in my King Charles Castle room. It was supposed to be black, not bright tan. (My room was the one with the Layer 2 water and lava scrolling.) I submitted it as black, but it never got fixed, even after raocow's video of it (when I think I mentioned it too).

I disagree about giving A2MT's graphics to ASMT, I think they should stay the way they are. If we do make a new version of ASMT, it should only be a bugfix/problem fix, not change the game drastically in any manner. Which is why I'm also against changing any of the bosses. ASMT's anti-climactic end is known now, and I think it did its job pretty well.

Just my thoughts, anyway.
Accepting any and all ASM requests for A2MT. Just send me a PM.
Note: If I accepted your ASM request and you never heard back from me, please let me know. I feel like I've forgotten a few of them.
Also the creator of the new A2MT CMS. PM me if you have any questions.

Money
Posts: 483
Joined: 8 years ago

### Re: ASMT v2.0

^I think it's less supposed to be a "bugfix" and more of an "updated re-release" I guess
The main reason I think the graphics should be their A2MT counterparts is because, frankly, a lot of ASMT's graphics are... pretty not good.

Posts: 92
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Location: Sweden

### Re: ASMT v2.0

Yeah, what I was intending with this was not just a bug fix, but more of an improved re-release. (Think TSRP to TSRPR, except perhaps not quite as drastic.) Hence why I also want to make changes to the levels themselves in an attempt to at least somewhat try to salvage the difficulty curve.

Speaking of which, here's what I have after playing through world 1:
ASMTv2.0.txt wrote:And Then There Was A Resistance Base:
- change cutscene Demo graphics to small Demo
- trigger midpoint on entrance to prevent cutscene from showing up multiple times
- prevent access to And So It Began until resistance HQ has been visited?

Water Water Everywhere:
- less munchers?
- remove p-switch "puzzle"?

- make path to secret exit pipe slightly more threatening?

Red Switch of Puzzle:
- extend level?

I Need To Breathe!:
- add beginning and end area above water without time limit

The Worms' Cave:
- tone down bridge-building segment (extend turn block platforms?)
- widen narrow tunnels with munchers
- extend cement block platform below big jump
- add ends to hanging vines
- remedy blind fall into enemies at level end
- add yoshi muncher block that eats thrown worms?

Charlie's Glue Factory:
- fix lava splash palette
- extend level

Other:
- add global reset door graphics
- add new 100-star bonus game?
- fix music restarting when entering pipe/door with p-switch active

Argumentable
the biggest shit
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### Re: ASMT v2.0

You could probably just remove the powerup-stealers from Honeypot Trap and Starry Nights.

I'm pretty sure I wanted it in Honeypot Trap just because if you flipped over the snail shells the koopa eyes would still appear and look weird, that could be modified in the ExGFX file, right? Also I'm pretty sure I didn't modify Snailington to be immune to capes/fire so that would need modified as well. Another thing I considered long after it was too late to do anything was to make all the bees stompable. It probably wouldn't have any effect on the first two areas, but it'd surely make the third a lot easier, which it kind of needs to be.

I am not sure why I wanted the no-powerups thing in Starry Nights other than to increase difficulty. If you still have the PM the music change I tried to get in before it was released would be good too, but I don't remember what it was anymore so OH WELL if not.

If we're getting down to nitpicking, might wanna change the entrance to the sky portion of Overgrown Fortress for people who don't realize that you need to do nothing. And I'm still of the opinion Krook's March (or whatever you wanna put in it) for both the castle and sky portions would be better than a music change in transition.

I would probably change some minor things too in SS Cotopaxi but it'd be way easier to show than explain. Maybe I'll get on that later.

And years later, people are still leaving comments on my youtube that the skelechucks shouldn't be exactly like regular chucks.

Joke response: remove anything chdata did

Edit
ASMTv2.0.txt wrote: I Need To Breathe!:
- add beginning and end area above water without time limit

The Worms' Cave:
- tone down bridge-building segment (extend turn block platforms?)
Nitpick, but the beginning area of the water level should be deep below water in a cavern instead of above. It's probably what you meant but the wording could mean anything

Also I think the bridge-building part of the worm cave should stay as it is, though I admit it is probably a tad difficult for world one

Daarkbuu
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### Re: ASMT v2.0

Wyatt wrote:Overly Hot Beach:
-If we do put in a midpoint, leave in the end trap.
Yes. I honestly don't know what I was thinking not adding a midpoint in.

kil3 wrote:great idea

also I would like to re-add the HDMA scroll to rumia now that we're non-lazy enough to

also an actual endboss would be cool. even some thrown-together custom bigboo thing would be better than just a vanilla one in my opinion

and oh my god we need to fix those cement guys from despawning that was just awful

Pretty much everything here.
unf

RivalNightmare
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Joined: 9 years ago
Location: Earth.

### Re: ASMT v2.0

Yes, this is a great idea. I actually never got around beating the game due to the difficulty (I do things savestateless, but my skills lack nowadays.)

I can help with this I suppose. (If you need any, that is.)

I'll go look for "fix-able" things at the moment.

alex2
Banned
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Joined: 7 years ago

### Re: ASMT v2.0

I'd be interested in helping out with this whenever it starts to pick up. Just let me know when you need help~
Warning: Opinions expressed by alex2 or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of alex2 himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
raocow wrote:a3xt will be my last project, after which I will quit lp forever
SPASM - LevelASM for Yoshi's Island!
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ProfessorDemetri
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### Re: ASMT v2.0

Fun fact:
So late at night, when I'm working my graveyard shifts, I tend to go exploring on the intertubes.
I had stumbled back to smwc, checkin' out the new hacks and graphics and all that jazz.
And I was going down the lists of hacks, and ASMT came up. So I decided to click 'er, and read the reviews...
And actually was kinda taken aback by most of them.
Alot of the reviews were talking about how difficult the game was, and sometimes, how unfair some things were. One person even classified it as being heavily influenced by Vip4.
But I kinda find it insulting that just because a hack is hard, or really challenging, and that you can't just breeze through it, it's a bad hack.
ASMT wasn't a bad hack, and it had a ton of interesting ideas, nice level design, and all sorts of neat things.
...
Maybe I'm biased, but it seems to be the common feeling that someone should be able to sit down for a few hours, and breeze through a hack. Did anyone do this for the original SMW? No, of course not. They'd play a few levels, leave, and come back tomorrow. I don't understand this mentality that things need to be quick, and over fast...
Makes me nervous for A2MT.

And granted, it is about 3am, so I'm kinda rambley.. lol

If you need help with anything, contact me on my skype: Demekun

cozyduck
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Location: Switzerland

### Re: ASMT v2.0

ProfessorDemetri wrote:Fun fact:
So late at night, when I'm working my graveyard shifts, I tend to go exploring on the intertubes.
I had stumbled back to smwc, checkin' out the new hacks and graphics and all that jazz.
And I was going down the lists of hacks, and ASMT came up. So I decided to click 'er, and read the reviews...
And actually was kinda taken aback by most of them.
Alot of the reviews were talking about how difficult the game was, and sometimes, how unfair some things were. One person even classified it as being heavily influenced by Vip4.
But I kinda find it insulting that just because a hack is hard, or really challenging, and that you can't just breeze through it, it's a bad hack.
ASMT wasn't a bad hack, and it had a ton of interesting ideas, nice level design, and all sorts of neat things.
...
Maybe I'm biased, but it seems to be the common feeling that someone should be able to sit down for a few hours, and breeze through a hack. Did anyone do this for the original SMW? No, of course not. They'd play a few levels, leave, and come back tomorrow. I don't understand this mentality that things need to be quick, and over fast...
Makes me nervous for A2MT.

And granted, it is about 3am, so I'm kinda rambley.. lol
If I may comment on this, just realize that there are people out there that appreciate challenging hacks where you have to slowly work your way through. raocow is one of them, but not the only one. Maybe we're just not as vocal about it, but we exist. And when making a hack, it's simply impossible to make something that everyone will like, so you should probably decide on your target audience from the start and never look back.

I for one enjoyed ASMT as is. Sure, KC's castle could have used an extra midpoint, but eh, I managed. Yoshizilla is for me the only outright bad part. On the other hand, the beauty of having two versions is that one can choose.

Paralars
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### Re: ASMT v2.0

Well, I guess a lot of people on SMWC tend to favor hacks of a slightly more flat difficulty curve, if I may say so.
Not big surprise.

But don't be nervous about a2mt, the most awesome hacks are usually not that easy as well, for instance the VIPs and tee-ess-arr-pee-too

Tails_155
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### Re: ASMT v2.0

yoshicookiezeus wrote:(and probably won't for a while due to being involved with both SMWCP2 and A2MT, as well as college starting up again)
And Cookie Crisis, am I right????
I'm member number 499 XD

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Wyatt
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### Re: ASMT v2.0

I remember reading the asmt reviews, I think the word "kaizo" appeared in about half of them.

Not sure if it's just the people who actually write reviews, but I've always gotten the impression that the people from smwc look for different things in a hack than we at the talkhaus do. I see tons of high-rated hacks with decent aesthetics but boring gameplay.

That being said, asmt is by no means perfect, and could really use an overhaul. To put into perspective how hard King Charles' castle is, it took me 3 days to beat everything (~50 levels) before it, and 2.5 days to beat KC's castle itself. Also I ended up using a rewind at the very end of the level because the screen scrolled me to death AFTER King Charles fell into the lava. (If we do go ahead with asmt 2.0, dear god someone fix it so that the edges of the screen push you instead of kill you)

A2mt will fare better than asmt. Due to us having a larger community with more people playtesting, we'll be able to weed out a lot of the bullshit difficulty that plagued asmt.
ProfessorDemetri wrote: Alot of the reviews were talking about how difficult the game was, and sometimes, how unfair some things were. One person even classified it as being heavily influenced by Vip4.
You say that like it's a bad thing!

Tails_155
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### Re: ASMT v2.0

Well, Wyatt, I'm "one of them" in that to me aesthetics are very important -- I am not a good gameplay judge though since I never even beat the original, I don't think.
I'm member number 499 XD

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S.N.N.
Posts: 498
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### Re: ASMT v2.0

Tails_155 wrote:Well, Wyatt, I'm "one of them" in that to me aesthetics are very important -- I am not a good gameplay judge though since I never even beat the original, I don't think.
Someone mentioned recently that good level design is -expected- in a game, and the aesthetics are just the cherry on top. I agree completely - as soon as you notice a fault in the design, it totally ruins the immersion. A good hack, in my eyes, is one that can weave the gameplay and the aesthetics together in a seamless way, to the point where you become immersed in the game. ASMT did not do this. SMWCP did not do this. The VIPs do not do this. In fact, I can think of perhaps two hacks off of the top of my head that do this (TSRPR and SMW2+3), and even then, they're not perfect.

Keep in mind people come from all over to SMWC to review hacks (I've even seen a few Japanese folks there as well), so it's not just a "specific group of people from SMWC" that likes this or likes that in their hacks. It's pretty obvious that the SMW hacking community is one of the biggest in terms of ROM hacking, so there is going to be a large variety of people who like a large variety of gameplay styles. This is something folks need to accept. I can already guarantee some people will hate A2MT, much like some people will hate SMWCP2, or VIP6, or Hyper 632, or whatever the hack is. That's actually a part of what makes the SMW hacking community so interesting - the various tastes.

As for the matter at hand .. I don't know. What's done is done. People already know ASMT for what it was before, and a revised version at this point almost seems like a slight waste of time. Sure, it might be a nice treat for those who haven't seen raocow play it or tried it themselves, but for the 95% of people who already have, they're not going to bother replaying it for a few altered midways or slightly changed levels. I guess I'm in the minority here, but I'm just the kind of person who would rather put the past behind me and move on. It would be like the VIP team going back and updating VIP1. Unless they're going to completely overhaul things (see: TSRP -> TSRPR), it just doesn't seem worth it.

Shrug.

AUS
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### Re: ASMT v2.0

That raises an idea, make it more like the TSRP->TSRPR and perhaps waiting awhile to do it.

But I'm just me, and this is just an idea. Ignore me.

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Vip is pronounced "Beep"
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ProfessorDemetri
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### Re: ASMT v2.0

So then...reload it with tons of ExGFX?

If you need help with anything, contact me on my skype: Demekun

alex2
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### Re: ASMT v2.0

Let's just call A2MT "ASMTR" and see what happens.
Warning: Opinions expressed by alex2 or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of alex2 himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
raocow wrote:a3xt will be my last project, after which I will quit lp forever
SPASM - LevelASM for Yoshi's Island!
My mosts things:

Oracle of Wuffing
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### Re: ASMT v2.0

S.N.N. wrote:As for the matter at hand .. I don't know. What's done is done. People already know ASMT for what it was before, and a revised version at this point almost seems like a slight waste of time.
Basically, I wanna second this opinion, and then also tack on a, "If you're gonna do this, you'd better toss some mechakoopas into a random sublevel."
raocow wrote:Next LP project - the entire hunter/scorpion series in chronological order

Chdata
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### Re: ASMT v2.0

By the way, you never forced small Demo for the Guts Tank which was the only way to fix certain unfairness if you use large Demo.

Or my memory is bad and you did. If that weird transition room you used is for that purpose, I don't see why not remove that and STZ $19 in levelasm for the Guts Tank level. Also, keep the old graphics but if anything new palettes would be good. You could also make the version with raocow's origional Demo so this'd be more... classic. Also, submarine blaarg and unused puffer fish thing sprite. :O :O :O Trouble with a capital COW. $\tan{A}\sin{N}$ Cmbheadquarters Posts: 0 Joined: 8 years ago ### Re: ASMT v2.0 chdata wrote:By the way, you never forced small Demo for the Guts Tank which was the only way to fix certain unfairness if you use large Demo. Or my memory is bad and you did. If that weird transition room you used is for that purpose, I don't see why not remove that and STZ$19 in levelasm for the Guts Tank level.

Also, keep the old graphics but if anything new palettes would be good.

You could also make the version with raocow's origional Demo so this'd be more... classic.

Also, submarine blaarg and unused puffer fish thing sprite. :O :O :O
raocow classic for ASMT 0.5?