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El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

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El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby ztarwuff » 3 years ago

Hey there, everyone! This is not raocow. It's ztarwuff.

I've started work on a new SMBX Project that should hopefully prove that you can create a SMBXtroidvania, because I don't think anybody's actually tried yet. Here's a few screenshots:
Capture.JPG
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Capture2.JPG
Capture2.JPG (111.35 KiB) Viewed 3851 times
It utilises the A2XT Devkit, primarily because I didn't want multiple devkits occuping space on my PC. Also, it would be nice for the A2XT devkit to be used for something other than A2XT.

The game works on the principle that you can set warps to allow players to enter the level at any exit warp you specify and that, technically, permanent events can be triggered by getting players to collect SMW Leeks. Except at the moment, I seem to have a problem where they keep respawning after re-entering a level! >_< (Maybe putting them on a different layer and using the On Empty Layer instead of On Death will fix the problem?)

And yes, with a name like El Gurdyioza, it has been heavily inspired by La Mulana.

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Re: El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby LovelyPenguin » 3 years ago

Whoa, this looks neat! The way I see it, SMBX almost seems like it was designed as a Mario level creation tool, with Link thrown in as an after thought, like "oh yeah, he's here, too." It's refreshing to see a whole game built around Link's (or in this case, Sheath's) play style. I'd be willing to give this a try once it's done.

Also, I heartily approve of more stuff with the A2XT devkit, especially involving Sheath (though Kood's still my favorite. XD).
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Re: El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby Mystick » 3 years ago

This looks like a pretty cool thing.
If you ever need terrible music for this project I'd be glad to contribute or something.

Or something.
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Re: El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby Zha Hong Lang » 3 years ago

This seems like a pretty cool idea! I believe it had been attempted before, though that was ages ago. (when smbx was actually in development) Hopefully, you'll be able to complete it and showcase it to the world. ;)

Anyway, I'll have to point out a first thing. The signs apparently aren't in the same grid of pixels that the other ones are, or they are in 1x1 pixels, as the smbx community might say. Here's what I mean:

Image

It's also a possibility that you're using a program such as MS paint, and you're directly saving your graphics to GIF format. You can easily fix this by using a different program instead, such as Gimp, paint.net, or pretty much anything else. You could even save your files as PNGs and later convert them into GIFs, if you don't feel like switching.
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Re: El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby raocow » 3 years ago

praise the sand
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Re: El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby Gardenolva » 3 years ago

save points where?
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Re: El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby ztarwuff » 3 years ago

Mystick wrote:This looks like a pretty cool thing.
If you ever need terrible music for this project I'd be glad to contribute or something.

Or something.
Well, one of the problems I'm having is finding decent music.
En Gardevoir wrote:save points where?
Currently, I'm using a La Mulana level structure with a single point in each stage where the player saves. Of course, because there's no save feature, the single point will be a warp that leads straight back to the hub level where the player can save. It's the best approximation to La Mulana's Grail Tablet system I could come up with.

Unfortunately, the warp system is what's giving me the biggest headache as of right now. Every time the player warps back into the level, the SMW Leek has respawned, thus undoing the player's progress. It even means the player could potentially recollect a leek that's already been collected, ending up with a leek counter score that's higher than how many leeks there are actually are in the entire game. I initially thought I had solved it, but it's just reappeared.

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Re: El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby Gardenolva » 3 years ago

ztarwuff wrote:Well, one of the problems I'm having is finding decent music.
Just use the Castlevania series music since you're planning this project mixed with metroidvania.
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Re: El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby aterraformer » 3 years ago

I am very super hype for this to exist
I have considered doing Metroidvania or Lunk episode thing but never did a thing and I'm pretty sure neither exists yet. Coolio
raocow wrote:the plan is to wait for Jump to be released and then replacing the graphics without telling anyone involved with Jump.
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Re: El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby ztarwuff » 3 years ago

Jayoshi wrote:Anyway, I'll have to point out a first thing. The signs apparently aren't in the same grid of pixels that the other ones are, or they are in 1x1 pixels, as the smbx community might say. Here's what I mean:

Image

It's also a possibility that you're using a program such as MS paint, and you're directly saving your graphics to GIF format. You can easily fix this by using a different program instead, such as Gimp, paint.net, or pretty much anything else. You could even save your files as PNGs and later convert them into GIFs, if you don't feel like switching.
No, I'm using Paint.Net. The graphic was taken from Episode 1. At least, I think it was. However, after reading your post, I have since replaced it with one made from scratch.
aterraformer wrote:I am very super hype for this to exist
I have considered doing Metroidvania or Lunk episode thing but never did a thing and I'm pretty sure neither exists yet. Coolio
I'm kind of surprised and rather flattered as to how much hype I've managed to create considering all I've done is post two rather boring screenshots and only given a rather dry description of the game mechanic. Thanks for the words of encouragement, guys!

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Re: El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby KingTwelveSixteen » 3 years ago

ztarwuff wrote:I'm kind of surprised and rather flattered as to how much hype I've managed to create considering all I've done is post two rather boring screenshots and only given a rather dry description of the game mechanic. Thanks for the words of encouragement, guys!
Praise the sand!

(It looks really cool, good job)

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Re: El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby DoctorSponge » 3 years ago

I, too, have an idea for a SMBXtroidvania game that could utilize LunaLua to provide some very neat mechanics. I've only really just started writing down ideas. I don't know how much is actually possible in LunaLua since I haven't spent much time learning it and using it, so maybe it's a lost cause. It basically all hinges on being able to make "savestates" that can be loaded in game, as well as the health system. I know it's possible to save a list of variables, at least, and that could be a means to save progression.


Anyways, here's the stuff I've come up with as a basis for a game:

Health and Powerup System
It would have a health system that determines if you are small, big, or "powered up". The health system would basically be currentHP/maxHP and based on that value, the game would set your state accordingly. My initial concept was 1 hp = small, 2 hp to 66% = Big, >66% = powered up. You would be able to set your active "powerup" at designated areas, so you could design sections around certain powers (fire, ice, raccoon, etc). Powerups would be "unlocked" during progression. There would be the main powerups (fire, ice, raccoon), used in the main progression path, and then bonus powerups (tanuki/hammer bros) used for non-essential parts of the game, like exploration for upgrades. Each would could be themed to utilize the powerup obtained in it, so the area you get Fireball in would use a lot of Fire-related stuffs.
Inventory and Currency
There could be an inventory system, usable items (like in Yoshi's Island), potions, and currency. The inventory system would be handled by variables and a custom interface. Each slot would have a value corresponding to an item. There would be separate inventories for Usable Items and Potions. The currency could possibly be two sets of points: one obtained from defeating enemies, used to purchase items and potions, and a separate one, gained from defeating bosses or finding hidden chests, that is used to purchase upgrades or unlock areas.
Usable Items
I can think of a way to utilize certain NPCs as "usable items", such as the watch, a yoshi or shoe, bullet cannon, muncherpot, POW blocks, the propeller block (and the one with the flamethrower), maybe a springboard. Items will be "bought" from shops. The items would basically be rewards for the player that make things easier for a while. Items will not be meant to be essential to progression, only as a reward for grinding/exploring. Initially, items will not be available to the player until they discover them in the world, preventing broken design (e.g. skipping double jump areas with a blue shoe). I haven't thought about ideas for shops yet, though.
Potions
Potions basically restore HP. There would be different strengths of potions and different types. The most common potion could restore a flat amount of HP, different potions could restore a percentage of your max hp (50%, 100%, etc), or there could be potions that grant you varying amounts of temporary hit points (much like Armor in Hearthstone) that don't count towards your current amount, allowing you to remain small but not actually 1 hit from death. Potions could be bought from shops cheaper than Usable Items, and can be found throughout the world.
Upgrades
Much like in Metroid, the player would be able to upgrade their stuff, such as Max HP (like heart containers), Inventory Size (carry more items), and Potion Inventory Size (carry more potions). Upgrades would be available at a shops, valued differently depending on how many you've bought of each (like Zelda II level up system but without the experience caps). They could also be rewards from bosses or for completing secret levels. The player could start with 3 HP, 1 Inventory slot, and 2 Potion slots (all subject to change).
World Construction
The game would be divided into different themed areas, much like Metroid. Each world would consist of a bundle of "levels". The levels would actually make up a continuous world, joined by "hub levels". The hub levels would have level-level warps to the adjacent levels and also allow the player to exit to the world map, unlocking quick travel routes to adjacent "hub levels". There would also be the possibility of secret exits to separate parts of the world. It could utilize some fancy lunalua "screen-edge instant warps" to divide the sections up within each level to give a neat feel to the game, or it could just use pipe-warps like doors in Metroid.
Character Teams
You start as the main character (Mario, Demo, whoever). As you progress through the game, you unlock "teammates". At designated areas (probably the same that allow you to choose your powerups), you would be able to select which secondary character you have active. At most times during gameplay, you would be able to actively switch between the main character and your "teammate". Each character would have independent active powerups and independent current HP, and they would share Inventories, Max HP, and Potions. This allows for some creative design that utilizes multiple powerups and unique character abilities (double jump, float).
Again, this requires a lot of LunaLua shenanigans and I don't know how much is possible and practical, but I figure I'd throw the idea out there and see if it garners any interest or inspires anyone.
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Re: El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby ztarwuff » 3 years ago

DoctorSponge wrote:TL:SNS
That all sounds interesting, but it goes against what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to prove that you can create a SMBXtroidvania, that is, without the use of special code. I'd probably use luaLuna for the boss fights, if I ever get time to learn it, but that's about it.

Anyway, I thought I add a bit more info for the game so you guys can see what the progress is:

Currently, I've decided on the following themes:

Level 1: Face Gate
Level 2: Sand Temple
Level 3: Water Tower
Level 4: Gallery of the Giants
Level 5: Philosopher's Tower
Level 6: Tomb of the Glorious Dead
Level 7: Palace of Life
Level 8: Infernal Catacombs
Final Level: [REDACTED]

The themes actually follow the world levels in Super Mario Bros 3, except I won't be doing a Sky level.

I've progressed the Sand Temple a bit more. You'll notice I've created my own version of La Mulana's catballs.
sandtemple.JPG
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Also, here's a screenshot of a new level: Gallery of the Giants.
gallery.JPG
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Here's a picture of the main hub room:
Hub.JPG
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All the levels will have one major exit that leads into this hub room. The player saves by leaving the level and uses the Hub level's save feature. As I said in a previous post, progress will be saved by using collectable leeks that permanently disappear after collecting them.

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Re: El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby ztarwuff » 3 years ago

Just wanted to say that I'm still working on this and have been donig a little bit of something on this every day since I last posted.

I'm currently playing with this weird looping idea for the third level, but it's slightly hindering progress. It has to be done because I make a huge hint towards Homer's Odyssey in the first level. The problem is trying to get loop to work properly (it's a structural loop, rather than a programming or event loop). The fifth level's layout is highly dependent on the third level's layout.

However, I would like a tiny bit of input. I redid the stage background to the first level.

Not too busy, is it? The grey Link artwork against the darker blocks is actually a hint about spike bouncing, and isn't a part of the background. Ignore the black boxes; I just redacted the picture, because I didn't want certain game elements to be spoiled.
Capture.JPG
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El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania Demo

Postby ztarwuff » 3 years ago

So, it's been over a month since my last announcement. I thought I'd release a small demo featuring the Hub Level and the first three stages.

This is still very much embryonic. There's no boss music. Pretty much everything in the third stage is blocked off because I'm still working on puzzles. The second stage is also unfinished; only one of the available leeks is collectable. And don't try to collect all of the leeks. It's impossible at this stage, because I intended some of the leeks to be collected later on in the game.

The Stage 1 boss fight is going to be replaced with something else, so is not indicative of the final product.

The game itself will only feature 5 bosses. Boss design will come later on after I've learnt some cinematx or lunlua, whichever one is best for bosses. And I'm kind of waiting for MAFAB to be released before I do that, so I can see some code in action.

Anyway, download the demo here.

Oh yeah, there's no intro yet, either. That'll also be one of the last things I develop.

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Re: El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby Zha Hong Lang » 3 years ago

Hey, just wanted to let you know that I'm still paying attention to this. Progress is looking really good here!

In case you don't already know, CinematX is a LunaLua library, so you don't have to make much of a decision, really. :P In the meantime, I'm afraid I can't promise being able to give feedback, but if a sliver of free time comes my way in the near future than I'll try the demo.

Judging from what I can in the screenshots, however, that's really nice ideas you have there. Especially with the link stabbing pictures, since it's a great way of showing and not telling. I'd much rather have that than a dialog box of any sort, direct or indirect. However, there's this one thing I'd like to point out. It may be exactly how you want to do it, but the boxes are stretched beyond their normal size. Having them be triple-pixel or quadruple-pixel kind of looks out-of-place, though you can easily fix hem so that they're the same size as before, but not using over-sized pixels.
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Re: El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby ztarwuff » 3 years ago

Jayoshi wrote:Hey, just wanted to let you know that I'm still paying attention to this. Progress is looking really good here!

In case you don't already know, CinematX is a LunaLua library, so you don't have to make much of a decision, really. :P In the meantime, I'm afraid I can't promise being able to give feedback, but if a sliver of free time comes my way in the near future than I'll try the demo.

Judging from what I can in the screenshots, however, that's really nice ideas you have there. Especially with the link stabbing pictures, since it's a great way of showing and not telling. I'd much rather have that than a dialog box of any sort, direct or indirect. However, there's this one thing I'd like to point out. It may be exactly how you want to do it, but the boxes are stretched beyond their normal size. Having them be triple-pixel or quadruple-pixel kind of looks out-of-place, though you can easily fix hem so that they're the same size as before, but not using over-sized pixels.
You mean the blue chests? Yeah, they're rips from The Minish Cap. They probably look funky, because Minish Cap is a Zelda game and these are therefore top-down view RPG assets rather than side-on view platformer assets. I might switch them out actually.

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Re: El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby Zha Hong Lang » 3 years ago

You mean the blue chests? Yeah, they're rips from The Minish Cap. They probably look funky, because Minish Cap is a Zelda game and these are therefore top-down view RPG assets rather than side-on view platformer assets. I might switch them out actually.
Actually, it's nothing to do with perspective. At least not in a top-down sense. Here's a good, quick example of what I mean:

;) Image Image

The left one is the normal size. The middle one is the normal pixel size of smbx. The right one is the pixel size of what you have, but you can re-draw it to have the same pixel size as the middle one, while still retaining its overall size.
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Re: El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby ztarwuff » 3 years ago

Jayoshi wrote:
You mean the blue chests? Yeah, they're rips from The Minish Cap. They probably look funky, because Minish Cap is a Zelda game and these are therefore top-down view RPG assets rather than side-on view platformer assets. I might switch them out actually.
Actually, it's nothing to do with perspective. At least not in a top-down sense. Here's a good, quick example of what I mean:

;) Image Image

The left one is the normal size. The middle one is the normal pixel size of smbx. The right one is the pixel size of what you have, but you can re-draw it to have the same pixel size as the middle one, while still retaining its overall size.
Yeah, I don't know why I thought you said something completely different. Well, I've gone and changed the graphics anyway.

Just remember, the first boss will be replaced. I don't like the decision I've made. One of the signs is actually referring to a puzzle, rather than the boss, but in the first level's current state, the clue could easily be misconstrued as referring to the boss instead.

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Re: El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby ztarwuff » 3 years ago

It's been about a month, so I'd better put out some more development news. I've hit a dead end with Stage 4. The gimmick is slightly unworkable because of NPC despawning and layer shenanigans. I've changed the treasure chest graphics, though. Boy did that take me ages.
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gurdyioza-stage3.PNG
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Also, here's a screenshot from the Water Tower stage. I'm using the barred windows in the background as entry and exit points for water, which meant restricting room sizes to prevent the background from scrolling. Strangely, the transparent water graphics look better in the PGE program than in normal SMBX. In SMBX, it looks a lot like the water graphics in Toadette Strikes Back. Due to layer shenanigans, I've been forced to regraphic a sizeable block with chain graphics. It's the stupidest thing ever, but I couldn't see any way around it.

Featured in this screenshot is one of the warp gates. Each stage will have one warp gate that leads back into the Main Hub Room, as mentioned in previous posts. They'll all have the house icon. When a player dies, though, he or she will be forced out of the level and back into the hub.

This stage has an event that in theory can trigger an environment change in a different stage. Basically, a leek triggers an event that allows a player to exit the level. I've placed another leek at the spawn point of the stage to be affected, thus forcing a permanent environment change.

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Re: El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby Leet » 3 years ago

Since people don't post here that often I wanted to make clear that i am excited for this! I don't have much else to say that hasnt already been said tho.
ImageWell it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
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Re: El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby ztarwuff » 3 years ago

I have to make a bit of a bum announcement, I'm afraid.

A recent test of my game structure suggests that my goal of creating a SMBXtroidvania without resorting to LunaLua for the main structure cannot be achieved. The idea was such that if players are too wary of downloading the proper A2XT package, they can use a regular unhacked SMBX but swap the graphics out. Though there is some LunaLua, I only put it in there to make level testing easier for myself (by disabling other characters). In theory, the absence of LunaLua shouldn't be a problem because the player starts off as Sheath and has no opportunity to change character.

However, a recent test shows my idea is not possible and therefore that this project has failed.

The problem is where the player spawns after dying. As it is impossible to get a player to respawn where the the player entered a Stage using vanilla SMBX (which is the whole purpose of this project) I decided on getting the player to respawn in the Hub at the starting position of the Hub level (located not too far away from the numerous entrances into each Stage). This will happen so long as a player dies in a Stage they did not enter via the Hub i.e. if a player enters Stage 3 from the Hub, but enters Stage 5 and dies, the player respawns exactly at the Hub starting point. If the player dies in a Stage they entered via the hub (i.e. if player enters Stage 1 via the Hub and dies in Stage 1) then the player respawns in the Hub level at the entrance to the Stage in which the player dies.

An even weirder occurence happened when I did the following: I went from Hub into Stage 2 (through a door entrance) into Stage 1, then died in Stage 1. The player spawned at a door entrance in the Hub Level that had no connection to Stage 2.

I could leave it be, but that would confuse the player no end and is therefore bad game design.

I'm not sure if I could use LunaLua to fix this problem, but that's irrelevant. Doing so would defeat the entire purpose of this project i.e. to only use vanilla SMBX for the connections between levels and saving progress. There's also no way of kludging it without turning it into a linear game with each Stage only accessible from the Hub ALA Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin, which also prevents Stages from affecting one another.

I suppose seeing as I am using the A2XT Devkit, it would make sense to use more LunaLua but the A2XT devkit worries more because of the way it keeps flagging up as a false positive on all sorts of antivirus programs. This is a huge security issue that could put people off from downloading the game, hence the decision to make LunaLua use very incidental. (What happens if the devkit is genuinely infected by a virus? How will the user know?)

Sorry for the downer of a post. It never occurred to me to test this part of the game before I embarked on this project.

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Re: El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby Zha Hong Lang » 3 years ago

Well, you could just use Vanilla LunaLua rather than the A2XT devkit. The thing about Vanilla LunaLua now is that it (should) no longer require a modified .exe, as there's a new file called LunaLoader which loads the necessary changes to use Lua at runtime.

Then, it'd just be a copy-paste of A2XT graphics after that. Shouldn't be a massive problem that way.
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Re: El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby Imaynotbehere4long » 3 years ago

Maybe, instead of making a hub-based episode, you could have multiple warps to the world map which lead back to that same spot in the level, similar to what Mario Prime did. That's what I plan on doing for my Metroid-based level.
My SMBX portfolio:
Image
(includes a Sonic 3D Blast styled level.)

SOMEONE ANSWER MY CRY FOR HELP: http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... =69&t=2026

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ztarwuff
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Posts: 542
Joined: 5 years ago
Location: Within 2 miles of the Imperial Crypt of Napoleon III

Re: El Gurdyioza: A SMBXtroidvania feat. Sheath

Postby ztarwuff » 3 years ago

I just realiesd I was kind of being stupid. Seeing as I set myself a 20 screen limit for each stage, I have more than enough sections. I've changed the world setting so that the player restarts the level after death. All I've done now is set the start position to be Screen 21 i.e. the screen that is furthest away from everything else. If I make sure Screen 21 is the same for every single level, problem sorted.

Only, I just can't decide what theme to go for. I'm torn between the following options:

1. Heaven
2. Hell

Not sure which would be funnier.


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