(shouting)

Planning/Plot Thread

Revolution, the only solution, the armed response of an entire nation.

This is an RPG.
User avatar
Clamestarebla
Clamkind Arch-Highlord
Posts: 230
Joined: 10 years ago
Location: The Void
Contact:

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by Clamestarebla »

markyjoe1990 wrote:Alright, so I just read the Talkhaus Revolution doc, and I'm going to point out that pretty much nothing in here is too hard to do. As far as I'm concerned, you don't even need to change map graphics (thank god).

At the minimum, this project's most essential requisites are as follows:
- Events
- Maps
- Text
- Portraits
- Battle animation palettes.

All of these are easy to do except for the custom events, but thankfully I made a tutorial on how to do that, not to mention there's at least two other tutorials on it as well.

The most ambitious things this project requires are some new battle animations and custom classes if we truly intend to go along with raocow and D.E.M.O.'s boss shenanigans. Though, we could just opt for the lazy option and just import battle animations from Fire Emblem: The Sacred stones for D.E.M.O. and raocow's devil form, then use the FE7 Dragon for raocow's final.

Extra credit work would be music, which is WAY easier to do in Fire Emblem hacking than Mario hacking, and uh... Actually, I think that's it really. I feel I should ask though. I've only skimmed through this thread, but the implication I'm getting is that our party is going to constantly have members switch out. I'm a little disappointed by this, since part of FE's appeal is training up characters that join your team, and having them leave kind of takes that simple joy away. I think it's perfectly possible to keep members onto the team AND give them bits of dialogue here and there. That's what TALK and SUPPORT conversations are for. Of course, you could also file that under extra credit too.
First of all, you put a big grin on my face with that post. I'm happy to hear that it is mostly all easy things to do. And second, the plot is going to be adapted to FE's gameplay because the original draft was written with the idea of making the game using RPG Maker VX, so there are going to be a few changes, some regarding party shenanigans.
Train harder, run faster, be stronger, better, evolution never over.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Doctor Shemp
Banned
Posts: 0
Joined: 11 years ago

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by Doctor Shemp »

Despite my pessimism, I'd be willing to give this a go. I mentioned a few pages ago the role I'd like to have if I were to be included and I could help with building that part.

In regards to the music, I'd be happy to write most or even all of it, like I'm doing with AZCT, but after the whole AZCT experience I'm going to add the same caveat that I told Demolition when he asked me about ASMT64 music: I'll write it when there's strong evidence that the game will actually be finished, not before.
User avatar
Clamestarebla
Clamkind Arch-Highlord
Posts: 230
Joined: 10 years ago
Location: The Void
Contact:

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by Clamestarebla »

Doctor Shemp wrote:Despite my pessimism, I'd be willing to give this a go. I mentioned a few pages ago the role I'd like to have if I were to be included and I could help with building that part.

In regards to the music, I'd be happy to write most or even all of it, like I'm doing with AZCT, but after the whole AZCT experience I'm going to add the same caveat that I told Demolition when he asked me about ASMT64 music: I'll write it when there's strong evidence that the game will actually be finished, not before.
Fair enough
Train harder, run faster, be stronger, better, evolution never over.
Image
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
pholtos
Loves adorable things.
Posts: 1663
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: One of the States in the Center of the U.S.

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by pholtos »

I'd be open to helping with the testing phase.
Host and Organizer of the Rando Pokemon Tournaments. Completed: I, II, III, IV, V
Dealer of the Pokermon Discord Tourneys.

ImageImageImageImage
ImageImageImageImage
ImageImageImageImage

I do LPs, check them out if you'd like.

Currently playing:
Image

The 500 char limit is evil. :P
User avatar
Mabel
Just west of wierd
Posts: 302
Joined: 10 years ago
https://marbels.talkhaus.com/

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by Mabel »

Map design...Totally on top of that man.
Ill even do up my own character and hopefully custom junk for her too.(as for her role, early game recruitable enemy)
Image
Image
Image Image
Septentrion Pleiades
Banned
Posts: 0
Joined: 13 years ago
First name: Stephen
Location: Holstaurus Heaven

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

Horikawa Otane wrote:Are there any good tutorials for strategy map design theory?
That's specifically is an oddly thing to worry about. If you've played video games all your life you should have an idea of what to do. I'm not sure how well your experience would work with FE7, but you'll likely be looking through maps while hacking.
Image
Image
Image
Doctor Shemp
Banned
Posts: 0
Joined: 11 years ago

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by Doctor Shemp »

Septentrion Pleiades wrote:
Horikawa Otane wrote:Are there any good tutorials for strategy map design theory?
That's specifically is an oddly thing to worry about. If you've played video games all your life you should have an idea of what to do.
You'd think so but you'd be wrong. Everyone who's ever made a Mario level has probably played a fair bit of Mario before yet there's still so, so many levels with basic design flaws. Your statement is kind of like saying that if you've listened to music all your life you should be able to write it.

EDIT: There is this archive that I found. It's large and probably variable in its quality as it's written by amateurs but there's probably useful info in there somewhere.

This one analyses the design philosophies behind 20 influential RPG games (10 Western and 10 Japanese).

This article is a favourite of mine: it analyses dungeon design in the original Legend of Zelda to show how a dungeon can be created that seems non-linear yet is secretly linear, making exploration possible while reducing confusion.

The other big thing I can say that's important is another thing the original Zelda did: no screen should be there "just because". There should be something to do or discover on every screen. Not only does this keep things interesting for the player but also cuts down the work the designer has to do. Large empty areas are not only boring to play but time-consuming to create, so don't make them in the first place.
Last edited by Doctor Shemp 10 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Sorel
In the shadows
Posts: 702
Joined: 10 years ago
First name: Alexander
Pronouns: he/him/his
Location: some place

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by Sorel »

Can i work as a character designer? Im pretty good at that. (But I cant really create the player graphics, I suck too hard for that.)
Master Fluffi
Monk of the southern Mointains
Fights with various combat techniques.(Fists n stuff)
Characteristics:
Gender: Male
Hair: BALD! He wears a blue and teal party hat, though.
Facial Hair: None.
Clothes Color: White tunic
Personality: Stoic, nice, gentleman-like.
Former active member, yearly lurker now.
User avatar
Clamestarebla
Clamkind Arch-Highlord
Posts: 230
Joined: 10 years ago
Location: The Void
Contact:

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by Clamestarebla »

So Sept, do you want to participate in the hack making or are you just here do give general tips? 'Cause I'm fine with both of these ideas but I'd like to know if I should add you to the "wishes to participate" list.
FluffiMasta wrote:Can i work as a character designer? Im pretty good at that. (But I cant really create the player graphics, I suck too hard for that.)
Already added you to the list! Don't worry, sprites will be taken care of by other peeps
pholtos wrote:I'd be open to helping with the testing phase.
Perfect!
Mabel wrote:Map design...Totally on top of that man.
Ill even do up my own character and hopefully custom junk for her too.(as for her role, early game recruitable enemy)
Tubular!
Horikawa Otane wrote:I wanna make at least a level or two. Maybe more.
Awww Yeah!
Train harder, run faster, be stronger, better, evolution never over.
Image
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Sorel
In the shadows
Posts: 702
Joined: 10 years ago
First name: Alexander
Pronouns: he/him/his
Location: some place

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by Sorel »

I just read the script, and I must say... its awesome. Really awesome.
Former active member, yearly lurker now.
Bwarch
Local Candy Fiend
Posts: 136
Joined: 13 years ago
Pronouns: He/Him/His
Location: Scorpions and snakes aplenty oh my.

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by Bwarch »

Clemasterable wrote:
Talkhaus revolution.doc
Rich text format please! Not everybody has Word ya know >>
Septentrion Pleiades wrote:I want to be guy introduced as a bad guy, but then revealed to be a double agent, then betray the good guys, only to betray the bad guy in a grand scheme

Scrub, rinse, and repeat.
That bad guy is totally me btw.

Resident tyrant reporting for duty.
User avatar
Clamestarebla
Clamkind Arch-Highlord
Posts: 230
Joined: 10 years ago
Location: The Void
Contact:

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by Clamestarebla »

Bwarch wrote:
Clemasterable wrote:
Talkhaus revolution.doc
Rich text format please! Not everybody has Word ya know >>
What kind of text program can't read .doc files?
Train harder, run faster, be stronger, better, evolution never over.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Bwarch
Local Candy Fiend
Posts: 136
Joined: 13 years ago
Pronouns: He/Him/His
Location: Scorpions and snakes aplenty oh my.

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by Bwarch »

Wordpad and notepad screw up wherein the formatting is concerned on .docs.

Rich text really is the most compatible with most things in existence so far as I know.
User avatar
Clamestarebla
Clamkind Arch-Highlord
Posts: 230
Joined: 10 years ago
Location: The Void
Contact:

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by Clamestarebla »

Train harder, run faster, be stronger, better, evolution never over.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Bwarch
Local Candy Fiend
Posts: 136
Joined: 13 years ago
Pronouns: He/Him/His
Location: Scorpions and snakes aplenty oh my.

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by Bwarch »

Muchas gracias.
User avatar
markyjoe1990
Posts: 11
Joined: 13 years ago

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by markyjoe1990 »

Horikawa Otane wrote:I wanna make at least a level or two. Maybe more.

Are there any good tutorials for strategy map design theory?
Basically in Fire Emblem, you wanna design the chapter so that the player is thinking every single turn.
- Place prizes that challenges the player to optimize their strategies in order to obtain them
- Make sure the enemies are a threat so that the player wants to avoid giving them a chance to attack.
- Make the player worry about how they use their resources. For example, In each game, you typically get a character who follows the jeigan archetype: a character who is strong at first, but doesn't get a lot of stats when s/he levels up, and eventually falls behind when the enemies start getting tougher. This means the player can't just abuse the jeigan, and has to only use it in emergencies. Otherwise, they need to focus on training their other characters who have better level ups.
- Calculate the time it takes for a player to reach a certain point in the map and time/place enemies/events to intercept.
- Each character has some kind of strength that makes them unique. Design the enemies so that it takes skillful use of each character's strengths to get somewhere.

I have a document on Fire Emblem level design that I've never finished, and it assumes you know some terminologies, but lemme toss the brain storm txt here. I also had an old topic that discussed level design in Fire Emblem, but I can't seem to find it...

Now I really wish I finished the damn document. >_<
============================================
|Chapter 1 - Common Chapter Design Mistakes|
============================================

Bloated Maps
- Done to make chapter feel grandiose, increase fear of restarting, or because player doesn't know what accounts as "small".
- FE4 makes extremely large maps to create a sense of grandiosity and epicness.
- The problem however is that it doesn't fill up a lot of it's empty space, so you will frequently experience large trudges of nothing going on.
- FE6 is worse because there is no way to save mid-chapter. If you restart, that's A LOT you have to do over.
- Ideally, your map should reflect how much content is within it.
- Chapter 10B of FE6 is a good example.

Charlie Foxtrot
- Word equivalent to clusterfuck.
- Used as another method to achieve grandiosity, or to make the enemy seem more menacing.
- However, enormous barrage of enemies can easily degrade into a tedious killfest similar to bloated map design.
- large enemy clusters can bolster strategic challenge if it needs to be avoided or torn through quickly in order to achieve certain objectives.

Reinforcement Spam
- Often times a lazy method of keeping the chapter "interesting" after the designer has run out of ideas.
- If done wrong, such as in FE6 Chapter 7 & 8, they may create a bad Charlie Foxtrot scenario.
- If done right, they can create a sense of urgency to complete the chapter quickly, or block the spawn point(s).
- If there's a lot of reinforcements, it can make the player panic, but once they have recuperated and fortified their positions, the reinforcements lose their threat level, making additional reinforcements redundant/tedious unless they are endless, in which the player will be forced to act eventually and end the chapter.

Ambush Reinforcements
- Reinforcements that spawn at the beginning of enemy phase, allowing them to act immediately after appearing.
- If indicated adequately enough, the player should know when and where these will show up, and prepare for it.
- If not indicated adequately enough, this reduces the challenge to trial & error difficulty.
- Ambush spawns are superior to normal reinforcements in that the enemy will move off their spawn point, allowing the player to block it next player phase. Normal reinforcements require units to kill the spawn first before they use another unit to block it, making ambush reinforcements a less tedious method.
- Good ways to indicate ambush spawns:
1) Throw in a cutscene a few turns prior to the reinforcement event, possibly implying the location of the reinforcements in the process ("I think we're being chased from behind!", "Reinforcements are almost ready to defend the fort, milord").
2) Imply with map design. (Suspiciously large number of forts near an important area, boss is all alone with absolutely no enemies nearby, etc)
3) Spawn the ambush in an area the player will not be near.

============================
|Chapter 2 - Unit Balancing|
============================
- Character usefulness is determined by:
- How much easier they make the game
- How many resources they save
- How many turns they save
- These three things are effected by a unit's...
- Base Stats
- Growth Rates
- Availability
- Weapon/Tome/Stave Access
- Abilities
- Resource Requisites
- Cost To Recruit
In comparison to...
- Enemy Stats
- Enemy Weapons
- Map Design
- Their competition
- Ideally, a Jagen unit contributes a lot to the early game, but quickly gets obsoleted due to enemy stat inflation, creating a need/desire to use other units before expiration kicks in.
- Inversely, an Est unit starts out a detriment, but when trained becomes so good that they make the late-game much easier, and save more resources and turns than it took to get past their poor base stats, late availability, resource requisites, and other shortcomings.
- Early joining units have availability as an advantage over late-joining units. You need to find a way to make the late joiners contributions big and frequent enough to make them as valuable as earlier joining units.

Poorly Balanced Units
Est Archetype:
- Nino. Generic enemies in FE7 are not strong enough to justify the resources put into obtaining Nino's excess fire power. Lacks good staff rank to contribute in ways other than combat, which other units do fine, and without babying this late in the game. Map design of Chapter 32x renders Nino useless.
Jagen Archetype:
- Seth. FE8's generic enemies never become strong enough to make Seth's bases obsolete, even on hard mode. Seth has many ideal traits such as movement, availability, being mounted, access to many weapons, etc. Even if there exist units who become superior due to growth rates, there is rarely ever a need for high stats anyway, so there is little benefit to training them.
Doctor Shemp
Banned
Posts: 0
Joined: 11 years ago

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by Doctor Shemp »

Another useful thing to keep in mind would be Blizzard's Rule of 12: don't have more than twelve things in any one category, be it enemies, units, weapons, powers or whatever. Once you get to more than twelve of something people can't quickly and easily remember all of them.
KingTwelveSixteen
? Title Title Title Title ?
Posts: 30
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: USA

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Oh wow, that script is pretty great.

I especially like the thing with the names. Ezenen and Esmedobleyu and the like. Just subtle enough to be awesome.

Oh, and I guess
King
Fighter Bro/Magic Dude/Ranged Guy
Uses everything, but not very well
Characteristics:
Gender: Male
Hair: Curly, Grey
Facial Hair: None
Clothing Color: also grey, with black pants
Eye Color: Brown
Personality: calm, snarky, annoyed easily

Other notes:
Wonders why nobody else ever seems to "know how to do more than like two things"
King of The numbers 12 and 16. (he should start with either 12 or 16 in each stat. Because that seems hilarious to me. :D )
The only stat he should ever really get good at is HP. Everything else should increase slightly in equalish amounts.
User avatar
Sorel
In the shadows
Posts: 702
Joined: 10 years ago
First name: Alexander
Pronouns: he/him/his
Location: some place

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by Sorel »

Will there be any beta testers? If yes, can I help you guys with that too?
Former active member, yearly lurker now.
User avatar
Clamestarebla
Clamkind Arch-Highlord
Posts: 230
Joined: 10 years ago
Location: The Void
Contact:

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by Clamestarebla »

Made an adapted list of Chapters. Still a draft though.
Chapters TR.doc
(16 KiB) Downloaded 153 times
Chapters TR.rtf
(20.64 KiB) Downloaded 110 times
Train harder, run faster, be stronger, better, evolution never over.
Image
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Sorel
In the shadows
Posts: 702
Joined: 10 years ago
First name: Alexander
Pronouns: he/him/his
Location: some place

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by Sorel »

Even more chapters? and BONUS CHAPTERS? Holy cow, this will be awesome once its finished! :)
Former active member, yearly lurker now.
User avatar
Jesuiscontent
Tsundere
Posts: 852
Joined: 12 years ago
First name: cool old field
Location: France

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by Jesuiscontent »

Markyjoe does good FE stuff it's really nice if he gets involved in this
Image

Image
Image
User avatar
pholtos
Loves adorable things.
Posts: 1663
Joined: 14 years ago
Location: One of the States in the Center of the U.S.

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by pholtos »

Ahahaha I like my part in those chapters.
Host and Organizer of the Rando Pokemon Tournaments. Completed: I, II, III, IV, V
Dealer of the Pokermon Discord Tourneys.

ImageImageImageImage
ImageImageImageImage
ImageImageImageImage

I do LPs, check them out if you'd like.

Currently playing:
Image

The 500 char limit is evil. :P
User avatar
Clamestarebla
Clamkind Arch-Highlord
Posts: 230
Joined: 10 years ago
Location: The Void
Contact:

Re: The Talkhaus Revolution (FE7 Hack Project)

Post by Clamestarebla »

Thank you whoever gave us this subforum!

So here how the hack making will be done:
-We'll plan everything that has to be planned (assign jobs to people, discuss plot-relevant stuff,etc.)
-We'll wait until all the main projects are done
-Hack making
-Testing
-Fix bugs and stuff
-Test again
-?
-Profit

Sounds good?
Train harder, run faster, be stronger, better, evolution never over.
Image
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Ditocoaf
Haustone Tournament Finalist
Posts: 724
Joined: 12 years ago
Pronouns: he/him/his
Location: On the horizon of the brandscape
https://ditocoaf.talkhaus.com/

Re: Planning/Plot Thread

Post by Ditocoaf »

I just want to say, I'm really glad that this project's origin gave it a name other than "An RPG Thing".
Locked